1. #681
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Melvin Gordon said what we're all thinking, that playing for the Chargers has prepared him for playing in an empty stadium.
    /s

  2. #682
    I just read that Stidham is signed for 3 years at a total of 2 million dollars. While I feel like everyone's done a good job laying out the down side of using an untested young quarterback, there's not enough that's been said about the upside. If he works out well, they have 3 years where they can spend that extra 25 million of cap space on other players and they still have a good quarterback.

    Once again, Belichick did it exactly right. The benefits of hitting on a young qb are so huge, and there have been so many decent quarterbacks popping up recently, that no one, and I mean no one, should be spending significant draft resources on a replacement qb until they actually have a hole at the spot. Succession planning is stupid because not having a successor can work out so amazingly well if you find the right 3rd or 4th round guy, and if there's a first rounder who you like the year you need a guy, that works too.

    Contrast that to the Packers, who are paying massive money to Aaron Rodgers while drafting Love. Love has a cheap 4 years, but crucially, his 5th year option isn't that cheap and the option must be exercised by the end of his third year. So they have to see what they have by the end of his 3rd year.

    So if Rodgers plays 2 more years and then goes away, here's what the Packers future at the position looks like assuming the plan goes perfectly:

    2020: Rodgers gets huge money, Love get 3 mill
    2021: Rodgers gets huge money, Love gets 3 mill
    2022: Love cheap, still 17 mill in dead money from Rodgers' contract. End of 2022: Must decide whether to exercise 5th year option.
    2023: Love cheap
    2024: Love moderately cheap, 15-20 mill
    2025: Love expensive

    They have 1 year with a cheap qb, 2 years with moderately cheap qb (20 million or so total expenditure), and that's it. Everywhere else it's expensive.

    Contrast to what the Pats get with Stidham:

    2020: Cheap - under 1 mill
    2021: Cheap - under 1 mill
    2022: Cheap - under 1 mill
    2023: Free agent

    Over the best 3 year period, Patriots use 2 mill in cap space and Packers use 43 million. And if the Patriots follow the pattern they followed with Brady, they would probably lock him up to an extension through 2026 or so in 2021 at a relatively cheap value. I think Belichick believes he can develop guys into the next Brady, and Stidham not coming in throwing 5000 yards in his first year fits that approach perfectly, because it means that he can sign him to a cheaper long term deal while he grows into the role. If Stidham is solid in 2020, Belicheck can be like, here's a 5 year, 75 milion dollar deal starting in 2022 with 25 million guaranteed, or else you can bet that you don't have a career ending injury this year or next year, because if you do, your career earnings will be 2 million dollars. Love signs that and the Pats have a below market QB until 2027.

    So for the Pats, the best case is better, but there are a lot of other things that just work better about this approach. The Pats will be playing Stidham earlier than Love, which gives them time to figure out if he's the guy before they have to commit big money. They can get rid of him at any point and start over, and the sunk cost is pretty small because he's a later round pick. Wasting a first rounder, like the Pack might have done with Love, hurts. Then there's also the possibility that Rodgers is playing really well, and you either alienate your fanbase or cut ties with Love in 2022.

    You can reasonably argue that Love is a better prospect than Stidham, but really, how much better? Love was the 4th best QB in 2020 draft, Stidham was the 7th best in 2019. That's not a huge gap. To find a quarterback who was the 4th best in his class who was a really successful NFL qb, you have to go back to Daunte Culpepper. Meanwhile, Nick Foles, Matt Hasselbeck, and Tom Brady were all the 7th qb drafted in their respective drafts.

    I guess the key thing that makes Belichick be who he is is his willingness to take real risks like this, risks that are smart and yes, have a real downside , but also have huge upside. If Stidham sucks in 2020, you get another guy in 2021 and try again. No big deal. If he's great, you're set for 15 years, and you have the leverage to make sure he's not paid top tier money until year 7 or so of those 15.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-05-31 at 04:11 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by JessicaJones View Post
    i used to put "dun b bad" in desc and bad players would still apply

  3. #683
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    Should be like baseball honestly. Have a 6 and 10 week injured designation for players. If it goes lower than 6 I feel like it'd create an issue in baseball where they are using the list to give pitchers extra rest by cycling in AAA arms.
    May have to do a shorter number of weeks for NFL. 10 weeks and the season is pretty much done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    The 4th and 15 replacement for the Onside kick didn't make it in owner voting.
    I was hoping this one made it. I think it would have really made the end of games more interesting. I'm the crazy one that would always start the first and third quarters going 4th and 15. AND after every score, I'd do it.

    The problem though if you can do it after every score. The other team may never see the ball.

  4. #684
    Mind if I roll need? xskarma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    I was hoping this one made it. I think it would have really made the end of games more interesting. I'm the crazy one that would always start the first and third quarters going 4th and 15. AND after every score, I'd do it.

    The problem though if you can do it after every score. The other team may never see the ball.
    Allowed to go for it only twice a game under the existing proposal.

  5. #685
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Allowed to go for it only twice a game under the existing proposal.
    That would make sense otherwise it would be way abused. Although I think I would always use it both times if the momentum seemed in my favor. I could score a TD use it scores another and be up 14 points. Stop them. Score another TD then use it scores another TD then be up 28. If I'm up by 28 the other team has to totally change their game plan now.

    Sorry, I can't find the exact wording of the rule. Not sure if that is allowed.

  6. #686
    I think people are being a bit delusional if they think this would actually be abused. A 4th and 15 from your own 25 yard line? That is too risky. Teams with the lead are not going to do it.

  7. #687
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate124 View Post
    I think people are being a bit delusional if they think this would actually be abused. A 4th and 15 from your own 25 yard line? That is too risky. Teams with the lead are not going to do it.
    I get it. I'm the crazy enough one to do it though. Good thing I don't coach.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate124 View Post
    I think people are being a bit delusional if they think this would actually be abused. A 4th and 15 from your own 25 yard line? That is too risky. Teams with the lead are not going to do it.
    I get it. I'm the crazy enough one to do it though. Good thing I don't coach. If you are already up by seven the worst thing that could happen is you are now tied again.

  8. #688
    Mind if I roll need? xskarma's Avatar
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    I think the main problem with it is the inequality of it. It is a very beneficial rule to have if you have an offense that can easily convert a 4th and 15 with explosive plays. But what about the teams who do not play offense that way?

    The Titans for instance had a pretty good offense last year, but their explosive plays were only possible when the other team wasn't sure what to expect or was expecting a run. You are not going to fool anybody by faking a run on 4th and 15. People will expect pass and thus teams that rely on subterfuge to manufacture their explosive plays and are a more run heavy team otherwise are shit out of luck with a rule like this.

    This would be a further nail in the coffin of teams that try to play balanced football, instead of the explosive, offensive minded football that the NFL desperately tries to promote. So, I'm honestly glad the NFL didn;t adapt it. This needs thorough testing before it gets implemented and it probably shouldn;t be done in the way that was proposed.

    Cause teams will adapt to these rules as well and design and practice plays that will get them 15 yards, so the current success rate of these plays will go up from where it is now, and that will most likely make them TOO easy to convert. (even if "too easy" is still only 20-30%).

    But, like with most of these issues in the NFL, they usually plow through the rule that makes for games that feel more exciting, even if the rules they adapt aren't equal. So I'm guessing this rule will get implemented in some form before long.

  9. #689
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Its something I'd like to see them try in the preseason to shake out how it works. The consequences are less obvious than some other rule changes, and there is a lot of wiggle room to refine it if they did decide it was worth using.
    /s

  10. #690
    I mean......who cares if some people play too conservative an offense to convert 4th and 15? Isn't it on teams to be creative and not be one dimensional?

  11. #691
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Tbh you're more likely to see people design trick plays for it, shovel passes, flea flickers than straight up attempt a 4th and 15 with one out the standard playbook.


    Sports and Fitness mod, Brit with weird sleeping hours.
    Has good taste in ale, bad taste in D&D choices.

  12. #692
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I mean......who cares if some people play too conservative an offense to convert 4th and 15? Isn't it on teams to be creative and not be one dimensional?
    Also consider that Tannehill was league leader in yards/attempt and yards/completion for those poor hapless Titans he used as an example, and their leading receiver was over 20 yards/catch. It was, honestly, a moronic argument, every team has to deal with obvious passing situations.
    /s

  13. #693
    I'm glad the onside rule didn't pass. The NFL owners want to keep changing the game to the point where it will no longer be recognizable as football. The NFL of the 80s-90s was a perfect product.
    Bandwagon sports fans can eat a bag of http://www.ddir.com/ .

  14. #694
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Whelp, Drew Brees opened a can of worms on his hot take about the American flag and several of his WR's are unfollowing / calling him out. Cant wait to see how that rift is solved...

  15. #695
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Didn't expect him to be in favor of it, but he really went all out didn't he?
    /s

  16. #696
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Why is he even bringing it up now, at the worst possible time? No one was talking about kneeling in the NFL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  17. #697
    Legendary! Vetali's Avatar
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    Hes gonna get canceled quicker than someone hating on kpop stans on twitter.

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I mean......who cares if some people play too conservative an offense to convert 4th and 15? Isn't it on teams to be creative and not be one dimensional?
    Think about what's happened in basketball with the foul rule, which favors shooters over big men because shooters are better at hitting foul shots. That rule, combined with rule changes (hand checking, circle by the hoop) that make it easier for perimeter players to draw fouls, have completely, utterly killed big men. It's not the 3, it's foul shots.

    To take a specific example: Dwight Howard, for his career, has an effective shooting percentage of 58.6%. James Harden is at 52.5%. So why was Howard relegated to second banana status starting at age 27? Free throws. Harden is a 86% free throw shooter, Howard is 56%. This is enough to overcome the huge disparity in efficiency on shots from actually playing against opponents, make Harden an MVP candidate, and Howard an afterthought.

    I don't this rule causes something that severe in the NFL, but it does put a potentially huge emphasis on one aspect of the game that is detrimental to others. To your comment about being one dimensional, that's not really fair. Some offenses are good at picking up huge chunks and bad in short yardage, and others are the opposite. Very few are good at everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Whelp, Drew Brees opened a can of worms on his hot take about the American flag and several of his WR's are unfollowing / calling him out. Cant wait to see how that rift is solved...
    The focus on symbols and specific events is why this whole exercise is pointless. The town next door to me recently had a vigil in honor of George Floyd, but 2 years ago when the state proposed merging them with a more diverse school district, hundreds of families from that town went to the state capitol to protest integration. Their town is 85% white/asian and the district they were considering merging with is 30% white.

    But the mayor of that town and all the people piously stand up and say "we stand with George Floyd" and hold a bullshit vigil in his honor, and instead of calling out those people, who have spent the past 50 years using zoning laws to enforce segregation that rivals the 1950s south, we focus on Drew Brees talking about the symbolism of the flag.

    And don't get me started on the 50 people who are all competing to share the most poignant self righteous "I'm white but I stand with black people" message on my Facebook front page.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-06-03 at 11:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by JessicaJones View Post
    i used to put "dun b bad" in desc and bad players would still apply

  19. #699
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Whelp, Drew Brees opened a can of worms on his hot take about the American flag and several of his WR's are unfollowing / calling him out. Cant wait to see how that rift is solved...
    Source.

    During an interview with Yahoo Finance, Brees was asked how the NFL should respond, and what his personal responsibility is as a leader throughout the league, should players continue to kneel during the national anthem when the new season begins.

    "I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America or our country," Brees responded.

    Brees said part of his reasoning is that when the anthem is played he thinks about the risks both his grandfathers took while serving in the military during World War II. He said he also thinks "about all that has been sacrificed, not just those in the military, but for that matter, those throughout the civil rights movement of the '60s and all that has been endured by so many people until this point."
    What the fuck?

    "I think it's wrong to call someone a murderer. It's so disrespectful to all those people he killed."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    No one was talking about kneeling in the NFL.
    Yes they were. They are saying "Kaepernik was right".

  20. #700
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yes they were. They are saying "Kaepernik was right".
    Of course he was right, everyone always knew he was right. But the conversation isn't about kneeling, that's been in the rearview for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

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