2020-2021 NFL Thread

[Smash Adams]

Honestly, even down 11, I had a feeling the Giants would still lose. Once the Eagles scored and got it to 4, I knew it was over. I had no confidence in the Giants offense to burn the block.

Is it me or does Doug Pederson consistently do everything he can to give games away? Some of his play calls, particularly the Jalen Hurts gadget plays are just bad. They do nothing to set those plays up. And as soon as he’s behind center, it’s always the same run/option and defenses know it. He needs to be out in and allowed to drop back and throw a few and at least establish the threat.

[draynay]

Ugh this season sucks, Thomas is out again, meanwhile Sanders is on the covid list, who needs receivers?

[ProphetFlume]

Antonio brown to the bucs. With Brady only getting 4-5 tds a game you can tell they really needed him.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Antonio brown to the bucs. With Brady only getting 4-5 tds a game you can tell they really needed him.

This team really does feel like a "win the Super Bowl this year because after htis season we're tearing it all down and losing our QB and Coach to retirement" team. Thrown a lot of one year deals at aging players and volatile personalities.

[Scrod]

How does a player that touches the ball every play make it to the NFL with the fumbling ability that Daniel Jones has?

Giants fan's opinion on Daniel Jones:

I was out on him from day 1. I was mostly pissed at Gettleman doing a Gettleman thing (namely, falling in love with a player and drafting him 10 spots ahead of where he was projected), but I just didn't see anything impressive about Jones from his college statistics.

Now that he's in the NFL, the fumble problem is incredibly concerning. But right now we're at a point where there's no reason to give up on him unless Trevor Lawrence falls into our lap. While the fall on the run was ridiculous, he's shown that he can be mobile, and that's hugely important for a 2020 club. His stats are otherwise uninspiring without being outright terrible, and he's on a terrible team. He looks the part - he's 6'6", has a good arm. Think we're stuck with him for a year or two, so at this point I've got to hope he gets better.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, I don't get ESPN's QBR one bit. Last year, Tom Brady threw for 24 tds, 8 interceptions, and 4000 yards, with 4 fumbles. His qbr was 54.5.

This year, Jones has 5 TDs, 7 interceptions, and 4 fumbles through 7 games. His QBR is 56.2.

Brady this year is rated below Baker Mayfield, Teddy Bridgewater, and well below Ryan Fitzpatrick (Brady is 19, Fitzpatrick is 7).

I'm usually a fan of advanced stats providing a different look at things, but this QBR thing just doesn't seem right.

[Vetali]

This team really does feel like a "win the Super Bowl this year because after htis season we're tearing it all down and losing our QB and Coach to retirement" team. Thrown a lot of one year deals at aging players and volatile personalities.

Especially considering Arian's 180 stance on AB earlier this year where he called him a diva. Now they sign him? Yeah they going all in.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, I don't get ESPN's QBR one bit. Last year, Tom Brady threw for 24 tds, 8 interceptions, and 4000 yards, with 4 fumbles. His qbr was 54.5.

This year, Jones has 5 TDs, 7 interceptions, and 4 fumbles through 7 games. His QBR is 56.2.

Brady this year is rated below Baker Mayfield, Teddy Bridgewater, and well below Ryan Fitzpatrick (Brady is 19, Fitzpatrick is 7).

I'm usually a fan of advanced stats providing a different look at things, but this QBR thing just doesn't seem right.

If I had to guess their QBR grades single flashy performances higher than consistent good performances. Because what those three have in common is they had a couple of games that they just went off statistically.

- - - Updated - - -

Especially considering Arian's 180 stance on AB earlier this year where he called him a diva. Now they sign him? Yeah they going all in.

Yeah that was what tipped me off to there's more to this than need.

Well that and the fact it's not like the Bucs were bad passing-wise or anything.

This feels like a signing you make hoping he can give you a pair of 1s, and that winning will keep his diva-ness in check.

[Espo]

Giants fan's opinion on Daniel Jones:

BTW, I don't get ESPN's QBR one bit. Last year, Tom Brady threw for 24 tds, 8 interceptions, and 4000 yards, with 4 fumbles. His qbr was 54.5.

This year, Jones has 5 TDs, 7 interceptions, and 4 fumbles through 7 games. His QBR is 56.2.

Brady this year is rated below Baker Mayfield, Teddy Bridgewater, and well below Ryan Fitzpatrick (Brady is 19, Fitzpatrick is 7).

I'm usually a fan of advanced stats providing a different look at things, but this QBR thing just doesn't seem right.

QBR is an efficiency stat--not a pure 'value' stat. It tries to measure the how you got there, not the end result of the stats.

E.g. a 50 yard air completion thrown perfectly (not a jump ball) is worth more than dumping the ball off on a screen to a RB who breaks 5 tackles and ends with a 50 yard gain. High skill plays count for more than low skill ones.

It also measures all the negative things QBs do that don't show up on obvious stat sheets (poor accuracy to WRs on caught passes that result in no YAC, having great skill players bail you out, taking at-fault sacks for holding onto the ball too long, situational down plays such as moving the chains on 3rd down vs killing drives due to an accuracy/choice mistake, etc). It also measures rushing yards (hence Lamar being a monster last year). Basically, it captures the entire situation a QB is in.

In the case of Brady last year--he was that bad. If you watched his games, he looked washed (for whatever reason) and was dinking and dunking down the field. Yea he had 4000 yards and 24 TDs and 8 Ints. Pat Mahomes had 4000 yards 26 TDs and 5 ints. Pretty close until you see that Brady had 613 pass attempts and Mahomes had 485.

tl;dr: It's an efficiency stat that does its best to measure how much positive/negative impact QBs have per play. It's not perfect (nor am I an expert).

[Logwyn]

Please God, let Trevor go to Washington to be the face of the rebrand.

What rebrand? Sounds like they will just be the Washington Football Team.

[ohiostate124]

What rebrand? Sounds like they will just be the Washington Football Team.

No. The recent statement you are referring to never suggested that it would be permanent.

They said that they may possibly keep that for next season because everything might not be ready but there are also rumors that they new name is already chosen.

There is also an official website for the rebrand where they put concepts on display and are letting the fans vote on them.

https://www.washingtonjourney.com/

[Scrod]

QBR is an efficiency stat--not a pure 'value' stat. It tries to measure the how you got there, not the end result of the stats.

E.g. a 50 yard air completion thrown perfectly (not a jump ball) is worth more than dumping the ball off on a screen to a RB who breaks 5 tackles and ends with a 50 yard gain. High skill plays count for more than low skill ones.

It also measures all the negative things QBs do that don't show up on obvious stat sheets (poor accuracy to WRs on caught passes that result in no YAC, having great skill players bail you out, taking at-fault sacks for holding onto the ball too long, situational down plays such as moving the chains on 3rd down vs killing drives due to an accuracy/choice mistake, etc). It also measures rushing yards (hence Lamar being a monster last year). Basically, it captures the entire situation a QB is in.

In the case of Brady last year--he was that bad. If you watched his games, he looked washed (for whatever reason) and was dinking and dunking down the field. Yea he had 4000 yards and 24 TDs and 8 Ints. Pat Mahomes had 4000 yards 26 TDs and 5 ints. Pretty close until you see that Brady had 613 pass attempts and Mahomes had 485.

tl;dr: It's an efficiency stat that does its best to measure how much positive/negative impact QBs have per play. It's not perfect (nor am I an expert).

The problem you have with stats like those that try to judge QBs is that your estimate of what is good might be wrong. Yes, Tom Brady was not Patrick Mahomes last year, but the Patriots had the 15th rank offense last year (out of 32) with a below average running game and pretty terrible receivers. Yes Brady dinked and dunked down the field, but it worked, it's what they had to do given the personnel they had. They couldn't run much so they passed way more than usual (as they always have because it works for them). He didn't turn the ball over much - 8 ints and 4 fumbles (and he recovered 5).

Meanwhile, this year Daniel Jones, with a higher QBR than Tom Brady last year, is leading an offense that ranks 30th in the NFL. They are 27th in turnovers, and he is responsible for 85% of them with 4 lost fumbles (5 total) and 7 interceptions. He has 5 touchdown passes. He's averaging fewer yards per attempt than Brady did last year.

About the only thing I can see that Jones has over Brady is he has excellent running numbers, propped up by that 80 yard run. But I have a hard time seeing how that makes up for the extra 12-14 turnovers he's costing his team plus the weaker production in the passing game. I just think the stat is wrong.

[Espo]

The problem you have with stats like those that try to judge QBs is that your estimate of what is good might be wrong. Yes, Tom Brady was not Patrick Mahomes last year, but the Patriots had the 15th rank offense last year (out of 32) with a below average running game and pretty terrible receivers. Yes Brady dinked and dunked down the field, but it worked, it's what they had to do given the personnel they had. They couldn't run much so they passed way more than usual (as they always have because it works for them). He didn't turn the ball over much - 8 ints and 4 fumbles (and he recovered 5).

Meanwhile, this year Daniel Jones, with a higher QBR than Tom Brady last year, is leading an offense that ranks 30th in the NFL. They are 27th in turnovers, and he is responsible for 85% of them with 4 lost fumbles (5 total) and 7 interceptions. He has 5 touchdown passes. He's averaging fewer yards per attempt than Brady did last year.

About the only thing I can see that Jones has over Brady is he has excellent running numbers, propped up by that 80 yard run. But I have a hard time seeing how that makes up for the extra 12-14 turnovers he's costing his team plus the weaker production in the passing game. I just think the stat is wrong.

I hear ya, it's all fair stuff to talk about.

There's a flip side to some of the arguments you're making. Yes, the Patriots were 15th in total offense (yards). But were they 15th and not a top 5 offense because of Brady? Did he dink and dunk when he could have hit wide open receivers down the field? Why weren't they higher on points scored even though they had the best defense in the NFL giving them the ball back in favorable positions regularly? Brady also faces largely the worst competition in the NFL on a regular basis (pre 2020 AFC east, and QBR factors in strength of defense).

Maybe Daniel Jones isn't the cause of all of the Giant's problems? How much of those turnovers are breakdowns from the rest of the offense vs his deficiencies, or tipped balls, bad routes being run, or him simply playing stellar defenses. Is he truly inaccurate and making bad decisions?

I get what the 'normal' stats say, but that's kind of the point of the QBR in being a bit of an anti-stat in its effort to go deeper into the true value of a QB. It's a bit like the difference between fantasy football and real football (some hyperbole here by me). It tries to isolate the QBs actual positive or negative impact of the game and give credit/fault where it is due--even if the outcome of the play seems to differ.

Anyway, as I said--all fair stuff you're mentioning and QBR isn't a perfect stat. And I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here just for fun (I struggle to believe Daniel Jones can be compared to Brady as well, but we're also only talking 7 games vs 16, so the decent games he's had are more influential and will likely go down over time if he's really this bad).

Well, maybe not on the Brady part--he really was not great last year (his QBR was appropriately mid-pack imo).

[PokeKitty]

edit: I am a Giants fan and I still disapprove of the draft picks of the last 3 years, Barkley was a miss, should get Q Nelson, DJ is a miss, he is not a franchise QB, and this year the draft picks are even worse, AT looks like bust, lets hope the Safety in the 2nd round is good.

[Grube]

It is really, really impressive how not good the Cowboys defense is.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Washington is gonna be that team that somehow ends the season 4-12 and picking at #6 while the QBs go 1, 2, 3 to teams that actually tanked.

[eschatological]

Holy shit, if we lose to the Jets I might throw myself over Niagara Falls.

[ProphetFlume]

I really expected better from dalton and the cowboys. It’s like the entire team gave up.

- - - Updated - - -

I knew the Steelers were undefeated but I guess I didn’t really take them seriously. They’re still the big winners from the bell and brown shenanigans.

[xskarma]

They’re still the big winners from the bell and brown shenanigans.

They haven't made the playoffs the past 2 years since Bell and Brown were gone. I wouldn't call them winners of anything. Everyone lost.



Also, that hit on Dalton. Oof. Hopefully that guy is suspended a few games, cause that was utterly unnecessary.

[Northern Goblin]

Also, that hit on Dalton. Oof. Hopefully that guy is suspended a few games, cause that was utterly unnecessary.

Not a single lineman came to help either, shows the state of Dallas' mentality with Dak gone.

[Crissi]

Not a single lineman came to help either, shows the state of Dallas' mentality with Dak gone.

yeah, our season is done. We should just tnak, and use the high pick on either better O line, or defense.