In what ways could Shadowlands end up being GREAT?

[Stevano]

They should give our races back their unique attack animations instead of the same one for every single class, race and ability. I miss my old Human strike...

[Voidism]

-Better WQs

Oh yeah! Quite a few WQ's now and in Legion were pretty unfun imo. I wouldn't mind more rares with raid mechanics etc.

[Onikaroshi]

Oh yeah! Quite a few WQ's now and in Legion were pretty unfun imo. I wouldn't mind more rares with raid mechanics etc.

The only ones that bother me are the "fill a bar" ones where each kill is like 1% and the ones with low spawn rates that isn't tag shared....

[SNES-1990]

I just hope the new racial appearances aren't locked behind a paywall.

[Evaddon]

-Linear storytelling, this means the leveling experience will actually have something to do with the end game experience/storyline and not randomly leave unfinished stories scattered all over the place

-More Assault like zones, instead of WQ everywhere

[Voidism]

The only ones that bother me are the "fill a bar" ones where each kill is like 1% and the ones with low spawn rates that isn't tag shared....

Yeah, but I'd rather they made it fun than quick. I don't mind the 1 % if it was fun... like say in a huge dungeonesque cave with an end boss or something.

[GucciWarr]

If the do returning to class above spec properly and not just half assed giving some old useless abilities back.

I'd love to see talent trees return that let you pick abilities from all specs and build ur char how you want. I firmly belive the cata talent change Was the biggest design mistake blizz ever made and most other design problems have resulted from it.

The simpler talents and splitting of specs into there own encapsulated thing might have made there balancing job easier but it's come at a huge cost to class fantasy, rpg elements and people's freedom to play how they want, balance is important but it should never come at the cost of player freedom, customisation which is the core of an rpg, when people feel there char is there own there more invested in it, and thus more invested in the world. Wow isn't an esport and it never will be, its an MMORPG and blizz need to get back to that. Untill then wow will be stuck in this war between fun and balance.

“Simpler talents”...have you played a character in retail in I don’t know the last 8 years??? Characters are pretty much at a complexity peak involving essences, Azerite, and corruption

BFA class design is great and my warrior has never been so much fun. Sorry most of you guys are fighting change

[bryroo]

I never said anything about balance. The main point is that without having to develop a new class, the hope is that they're able to make existing classes more fun.

You're right. I was unnecessarily triggered. I apologize.

[DemonDays]

The only way Shadowlands can be good is if they devote a shit tonne of time to Class Design.

The way your class plays is the core experience of World of Warcraft.


If they aren't actively engaging with and responding to Class feedback on the Beta forums then you can almost guarantee we're in for another shit show. Their repeated "Blizzard knows best" bullshit is what got us here in the first place.

Blizzard doesn't know best. BfA is proof of that.


That's a start for me. Everything else is secondary.

[Monster Hunter]

“Simpler talents”...have you played a character in retail in I don’t know the last 8 years??? Characters are pretty much at a complexity peak involving essences, Azerite, and corruption

BFA class design is great and my warrior has never been so much fun. Sorry most of you guys are fighting change

i have played almost constantly bar breaks since wow released, never before have so many people found the class design this bad, so.... sorry your in a minority, guess you will have to embrace the change when azerite vanishes and classes change in SL. but then why do you think azerite / artifacts /essences exist ? all these rent-a-talents? maybe its because there half assed temporary stand in's for the very talent system they cut back in cata.

hope you still like your warrior though bro when they change it in SL,

[Kithelle]

Story that is compelling...and that would lead to ending Sylvanas instead of some lame redemption like Grom

Old abilities for sure, doubt we'd get any new ones other than the covenant ones
Talent/class revamps, plenty of talent trees that just have worthless abilities tied to them (And actually do it this time instead of making promises then just buffing some damage abilities instead)

Also hoping Torghast will be interesting

[Velerios]

Classes being fun and engaging again is all it would take for me.

This. F*** on class balance, i really don't care much about it: they should care about class balance after the beta, they can hotfix balance in later. First class engagement is the most important thing: they should test classes first before anything else, that's important. Classes are the window of how we play wow, and then they are broken, the game is broken.

But to make shadowlands good... it takes a LOT MORE. It actually takes a suramar-like endgame-content, and the maw isn't the content we need. Daily capped, time gated bullshite. (yes, you can be sure that the reinforcements act like a small time-gate and that his attention to you ends on the next day)

[Thes]

- Classes should be way more different than they are now (from each other). Making every class feel the same is just lazy design. Classes need defining limitations and strengths.
- Less random effects on the screen (so when in PVP you don't have a dozen different effects flashing the screen while your character casted one simple spell)
- ^ Less random effects from gear. Tier sets and pvp sets should make a comeback, and effects should come from the weapons/trinkets for the most part.
- Titanforging etc. should be removed, the gear power increase every patch is just silly. Some very good items should have some lasting power so that they are not replaced the first week a patch hits.
- For the love of god tune down the time-gating of content

[Penegal]

• Making M+ great again, i.e. Legion.
• Bringing back class tier sets.
• A ton of content for both solo and group progression.
• Bolvar's character actually being good.
• Less focus on Sylvanas. The earlier she dies, the better.
• A good, satisfying story for the expansion.
• No more tentacles.
• No pointless grinds.
• GCD changes reverted.
• Classes feel satisfying to play.
• Tons of new customization options.

What about M+ in Legion was better than BfA M+? In my memory it was quite the opposite.

[Lolites]

- Frost DK gets 2-handers back.

as a frost DK i couldnt agree more, i never understood why frost became dual wield in the first place, if they had to have single weapon for legion they could go with 2hander...
but i think more important is to make icecap (or obliterate) build working without external power, bcs right now without frostwhelp traits and blood of the enemy it would be soooo screwed in pve... and i dont want to go back to breath being only usable spec

[Garretdejiko]

So, we have a negative thread already so let's bring up all the things that could potentially make SL great or even the best expansion yet.

- Covenants is much more interesting than reputations and gives you something to look forward to.
- Toghast having a lot of replayability and fun rewards in different tiers of drop chance.
- Potential "corruption mechanic" that's more balanced and gives us a risk-reward gameplay throughout the expansion.
- Old abilities feeling more than nostalgic, actually feeling class defining and useful.

What can you come up with?

By not replacing Titanforging and Corrupted gear with "Shadowlanded Gear" adding 4 layers of RNG

[Lolites]

SL seems like the perfect candidate to introduce zone specific flying. Completed one zone (all quests, rep exalted)? Get flying for this zone alone. No problem, because the zones are not interconnected. Also that way it will be very easy to add new zones and let players experience the content on the ground at first but in the air later. There is little reason for them to delay flying in a model outlined by me.

i think they could make it even more of a covenant bonus, get flying in zone with your covenant instantly after choosing it, then earn flying separately in zones via their reputations or whatever

[LordVargK]

What about M+ in Legion was better than BfA M+? In my memory it was quite the opposite.

It mostly comes down to Legion having Maw, while BfA has no equivalent fast dungeon. Also BfA is much more focussed on trash (it being more present and having more abilites) rather than making bosses the stars of m+. Rogues are good in M+ but even more so in BfA than in Legion because of their utility and the ability to skip packs.

Further, this perception of m+ may have something to do with how classes feel. AoE was heavily nerfed in BfA, which slowed down trash clear, thus tripling down on trash (more trash mobs that has more abilities and takes longer to kill). That does not feel good imo.

[klaps_05]

The Tower letting us work directly towards our artifact/legendary plus being able to select from multiple items from your weekly chest alone meant insta-buying as things were announced.

I am also pretty sure the Madnesses in Visions are basically a testing ground for new type of affixes instead of the stagnant ones we have now. Imagine Leaden Foot or the madness that spawns dudes around you or the BUGS! as an affix. Now that would be cool!

Also the tower will offer spell modifiers and things will work differently there, so it will be pretty cool to find out more about that.

[Penegal]

It mostly comes down to Legion having Maw, while BfA has no equivalent fast dungeon. Also BfA is much more focussed on trash (it being more present and having more abilites) rather than making bosses the stars of m+. Rogues are good in M+ but even more so in BfA than in Legion because of their utility and the ability to skip packs.

Further, this perception of m+ may have something to do with how classes feel. AoE was heavily nerfed in BfA, which slowed down trash clear, thus tripling down on trash (more trash mobs that has more abilities and takes longer to kill). That does not feel good imo.

Makes sense, yes. Especially after the shitty GCD changes. However, I feel like M+ is better now because the bosses aren't the stars. M+ isn't a raid. For me it's more fun to have trash with abilities than simply having trash for the sake of the dungeon not being empty. It makes it more engaging for me, personally. It makes the affixes Tyrannical and Fortified actually have meaning as depending on it, comps change because during Fortified weeks now trash can demolish you.

I just can't see the greatness of Legion considering it was the only expansion that made me literally not want to play the game.