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  1. #41
    I am Murloc! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    for so many years i really cannot understand why mage is only class with pet that cannot tank for him . yes its only in frost by why water eleemntal doesnt have skilsl like void walker.

    seems so strange to me
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    I'm sorry but for those talking about "oh yeah I rock in the open world as a mage, it's easy" you've clearly never played a tank or pet class (warlock or hunter. Shaman doesn't count unless you wanna wait a couple minutes between... doing anything).

    OP, I'm sorry, but yes WoW does bake in "difficulty levels" for classes in the open world or soloing, and mages are among the hardest. Yes, they're all doable depending on skill, but you will NEED that skill far more for some classes than others.

    As someone who hates unnecessary difficulty, I lead every expansion with a tank or pet class. Their lives are just objectively, unquestionably easier for anything where you're on your own or in role agnostic groupings.

    It gets better, soloing as a "harder solo class," but with the same effort, time and gear saturation, where the mage becomes "closer to sane," tanks and pet classes are running the open world over.

    Anyone telling you that mage is ideal or effortless in the open world a) are taking their own skill for granted/humblebragging or b) have never applied their skills to an "overworld intended" class like a tank or pet class.




    Edit, To be clear, as the above rant is pretty harsh and reflects what I feel about this disparity that I strongly dislike: It absolutely gets easier with gear and skill to solo as a mage, but don't let anyone fool you into some idea that you will catch up to tanks and pet classes. By their very nature, they will always be better at this sort of thing. That doesn't mean you can't stick to your guns in this regard and play the class you like!
    Someone mentioned rogues were bad which I, as a rogue main, find hilarious. I'm fine on my rogue but the mage was horrible.

    The class just desperately need self-healing. Really hard to see why warlocks generally do more damage and are better outdoors than mages.

    Glass cannon stopped making sense when they decided everyone should do the same dps. Mages are paying for an advantage they simply don't have anymore.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Demeia View Post
    Someone mentioned rogues were bad which I, as a rogue main, find hilarious. I'm fine on my rogue but the mage was horrible.

    The class just desperately need self-healing. Really hard to see why warlocks generally do more damage and are better outdoors than mages.

    Glass cannon stopped making sense when they decided everyone should do the same dps. Mages are paying for an advantage they simply don't have anymore.
    In a perfect world, rogues would be the hardest hitting class in the game, on purpose and always because a) they have to get into melee, b) are "not intended to get hit," and c) have no option to address A or B with other specs.

    Mages should be right behind them.

    But of course that can't happen because NUMBERS ARE EVERYTHING BLAAAH.

    Mages do need to be thrown a bone though, seriously.

  4. #44
    I'm currently leveling a warrior and fire mage, the mage IS harder. For some fights I need to get Blazing Barrier up and wait until the cooldown is over before starting the fight.

    I also just took a pali through Nazjatar and I was surprised at how easy some fights were, compared to a mage. I think the pali was better geared than the mage was.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by SaneyBoo View Post
    Been leveling my mage, its 115 now, and my lord I feel so damn soft. Even with kiting and lots of dragons breath and frost nova. Ive tried frost and fire spec.

    I've been cuddled by playing classes with decent selfheals and survivability.

    Im in big trouble if i pull 3 mobs, while on other classes i can just pull whatever is in reach.

    So my question is does it get easier at 120 with lets say ~410 gear to do the new assaults or is always gonna be careful pulling and drinking often?

    I have seen raid geared mages destroy things before the mob barely has time to turn around , but i can't get to that gear level.
    Did you try Glacial Spike build (Frost)? Because I was 1 shotting mobs with it. And you can 1-shot 2 mobs at a time with Splitting Ice talent. Frozen Orb is also a powerful way to handle a pack of mobs. Remember to properly execute the Glacial Spike cast - either use a Ice Flurry right when Glacial Spike finishes casting (and be 10 yards away from mob) or Freeze it (if the mob is next to you, you can cast Frost Nova right as your Glacial Spike finishes casting and it will still Shatter).

    You're a Mage and a Frost mage at that. You're not supposed to let mobs hit you. Kite them. You have 1 to 4 freeze spells + 90% of your arsenal also slows the enemy. You can pick the PvP talent that freezes enemies (15%). It is OP. I can't play without it. Love it so much.

  6. #46
    Mages need some kind of self heal with like a 2-3min CD. They are the only class without a baseline self heal.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Mages need some kind of self heal with like a 2-3min CD. They are the only class without a baseline self heal.
    They have mana bun for out of combat healing.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    They have mana bun for out of combat healing.
    As ridiculous as this sounds, I believe if pressed this is the answer the devs would give haha!

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    As ridiculous as this sounds, I believe if pressed this is the answer the devs would give haha!
    They also have a bubble on a pretty short cd(30 sec? 45?), I'd like that bubble to be much larger baseline, but lose some scaling, atleast until max level, so that levelling is a tad easier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    They have mana bun for out of combat healing.
    Don't care about that, no other class has to do that to heal anymore and most have far more tools that make mages look like they were forgotten, they could easily put in an ability similar to what they had before as baseline heal for X based on how much damage you have taken in the last 15 seconds up to a maximum of 25% of your total health. Call it Chronosphere or something like that where it envelops you in time traveling particles to reverse time and bam, a self heal that requires some skill to optimize so it isn't a face roll heal and somewhat reactionary. 2 minute CD.

    The other simpler option is a talent for all specs that lets you eat while in combat quickly once every few minutes, makes your biscuit instant cast when off cool down and heals you for a good chunk over a few seconds call it [No time to eat] lol.

    I have ideas for days, Blizzard should really hire me already for my sweet sweet ideas.
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    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  11. #51
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Mages should be able to conjure healthstone-type stuff. Either just for personal use, or to fill the function of a warlock like more classes got Heroism.

    Mages should be able to summon a tank pet, think Elsa's snow monster but with changing element depending on the spec. Could be awesome!

    Either that, or truly make them glass cannons again. Let frost mages freeze mobs and boom them down again etc.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Mages should be able to conjure healthstone-type stuff. Either just for personal use, or to fill the function of a warlock like more classes got Heroism.

    Mages should be able to summon a tank pet, think Elsa's snow monster but with changing element depending on the spec. Could be awesome!

    Either that, or truly make them glass cannons again. Let frost mages freeze mobs and boom them down again etc.
    No, it should be Olaf.

    In all specs...water elemental should be Olaf throwing snowballs.

  13. #53
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Don't care about that, no other class has to do that to heal anymore and most have far more tools that make mages look like they were forgotten, they could easily put in an ability similar to what they had before as baseline heal for X based on how much damage you have taken in the last 15 seconds up to a maximum of 25% of your total health. Call it Chronosphere or something like that where it envelops you in time traveling particles to reverse time and bam, a self heal that requires some skill to optimize so it isn't a face roll heal and somewhat reactionary. 2 minute CD.

    The other simpler option is a talent for all specs that lets you eat while in combat quickly once every few minutes, makes your biscuit instant cast when off cool down and heals you for a good chunk over a few seconds call it [No time to eat] lol.

    I have ideas for days, Blizzard should really hire me already for my sweet sweet ideas.
    We already have temporal shield.


    Yes, solo content gets better when you gear up, 150k shield on top of 500k health turns any kind of solo content in a cakewalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Mages should be able to conjure healthstone-type stuff. Either just for personal use, or to fill the function of a warlock like more classes got Heroism.
    I'm honestly fine with being the only class without a self-heal as long as i have access to shield, free food, blink and nova. I don't want to turn into a whiny rogue with this "blizzard listen we can't level without a healing ability it's too tough! please give us some healing it's impossible to play!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    We already have temporal shield.


    Yes, solo content gets better when you gear up, 150k shield on top of 500k health turns any kind of solo content in a cakewalk
    They need more flavor!
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I'm honestly fine with being the only class without a self-heal as long as i have access to shield, free food, blink and nova. I don't want to turn into a whiny rogue with this "blizzard listen we can't level without a healing ability it's too tough! please give us some healing it's impossible to play!"
    I need to be careful because I find my mage unpleasant to play now and I certainly don't want to get into an argument with someone who plays a mage proper. But I don't think it's leveling that's the problem, it's the outside world when fighting elites is quite difficult.

    Edit: Baseline mirror images could of course help. I still think mages should get some kind of self-heal though.

  16. #56
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demeia View Post
    I need to be careful because I find my mage unpleasant to play now and I certainly don't want to get into an argument with someone who plays a mage proper. But I don't think it's leveling that's the problem, it's the outside world when fighting elites is quite difficult.

    Edit: Baseline mirror images could of course help. I still think mages should get some kind of self-heal though.
    Looking at class rework preview we get alter time back (basically a full heal), we have a shield to prevent damage, prismatic shield (dunno if it'll be there for shadowlands tho).

    So imagine a scenario:
    You come into a fight with shield up and no CD on it.
    Shield gets destroyed, you reapply shield.
    Pop mirror image.
    Reapply shield.
    Shield gets destroyed again, use temporal shield.
    Temporal shield pops you back to full in 4 seconds, you pop altered time.
    Altered time gets you back to full health.
    Reapply shield.


    That's enough "healing" (as in "my green bar didn't get to zero") in my book. It gets really boring when everyone has access to self-healing, it's better to start removing it from specs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  17. #57
    This is literally the first expansion I didnt main a mage. They feel way to squishy while leveling for the amount of damage they deal.

  18. #58
    Been a Mage for two expansions now. Soloing is not an issue. Just grab gear, you'll feel like a nuclear cannon soon enough.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Looking at class rework preview we get alter time back (basically a full heal), we have a shield to prevent damage, prismatic shield (dunno if it'll be there for shadowlands tho).

    So imagine a scenario:
    You come into a fight with shield up and no CD on it.
    Shield gets destroyed, you reapply shield.
    Pop mirror image.
    Reapply shield.
    Shield gets destroyed again, use temporal shield.
    Temporal shield pops you back to full in 4 seconds, you pop altered time.
    Altered time gets you back to full health.
    Reapply shield.


    That's enough "healing" (as in "my green bar didn't get to zero") in my book. It gets really boring when everyone has access to self-healing, it's better to start removing it from specs.
    You even left out ice block which could be used as a way to get shield back. Yes, this could work, it's a bit soon to tell, but you might well be right. If mirror images is a 3 minute cooldown you might be able to get a decent defensive rotation between that and with mage mobility and such, you might be able to solo some fairly challenging things.

    That said, I still don't see why warlocks are so tough and mages so very squishy given that the damage we do is all the same.

  20. #60
    I know this sounds douchey but like....lolwut? You're a mage bro, the epitome of heavy mob pulling/kiting classes. Git gud.

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