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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Lol, if that were true there would be zero point in raiding. "Don't raid and play the game for fun, play for meta"
    That is precisely true. You can't just play the worst spec and constantly underperfrom in mythic raids for example just because you like it, not while also being successful anyway. Some may get carried for a while but most won't. Heroic raids and below don't matter, that's the whole point of having multiple difficulties.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    That is precisely true. You can't just play the worst spec and constantly underperfrom in mythic raids for example just because you like it, not while also being successful anyway. Some may get carried for a while but most won't. Heroic raids and below don't matter, that's the whole point of having multiple difficulties.
    People clear mythic all the time in the "slightly worse spec" nothing is incapable of doing enough to clear mythic

  3. #63
    Bloodsail Admiral clinophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    If i bring up playing frost over fire, my gm says hell kick me
    If a gm would say this to me I would say him he can pay for my sub so I'll play what "he wants".

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    I have mythic orange logs as frost back in bfd, but i dont think you understand how broken fire is right now and in 2 weeks with the cape proc, it will get more broken

    - - - Updated - - -



    No good ce guild, then
    Then what are you aiming for, world first race is already over. If you settle for CE there should be plenty of good guilds to choose from especially since you have mythic orange logs from previous tiers.

  5. #65
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    As with many things in life: You can't always have your cake and eat it.

    If you WANT to be super competitive then yes, you need to choose the best spec.
    If you WANT to be able to choose your spec then you need to accept that you're going to be a little less competitive.


    Ultimately it all boils down to what is most important to you. There is nothing in the game that dictates what spec you must play in order to participate in the content, although it does have some impact on your ranking if you're playing at the high end.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    That is precisely true. You can't just play the worst spec and constantly underperfrom in mythic raids for example just because you like it, not while also being successful anyway. Some may get carried for a while but most won't. Heroic raids and below don't matter, that's the whole point of having multiple difficulties.
    That's the exact question you should ask yourself if you find yourself stuck in a spec you don't want to play at a mythic level.

    "Am I willing to stop raiding Mythic to play this spec 24/7?"

    If the answer is yes - then you should be playing that spec, consequences be damned. If the answer is no - then you should just suck it up for the prog and play what gets the bosses dead. The sooner it's on farm, the sooner you can start playing the spec you want. I'm assuming that most every single GM would be ok with off-spec play on farm content for the fun of it.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    People clear mythic all the time in the "slightly worse spec" nothing is incapable of doing enough to clear mythic
    There's a difference between clearing mythic and clearing mythic at a high level.

    If your guild is fine with barley being able to finish a raid on mythic before the next patch or settle for just clearing a few bosses, then yeah sure, chances are no one will really care as long as you do something.

    If your guild wants to push a high ranking and clear the raid as fast as possible, they're not gonna put up with you only playing what you like (i.e. playing a single target oriented spec/build when heavy aoe is needed).

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Whenever there is a discussion about raid performance, the go-to rebuttal is almost always "play what you want to play", as if it handwaves away the genuine performance concerns that are being raised in the argument. Nonetheless, do raiders really get to play the spec that they want to in raids, especially those specs who are always underperforming?
    In M progression? Fuck no, not unless their spec serves a point that only their spec can provide. Like, I dunno if the worst dps spec in the game had a buff that gave mana regen (Replinshment) then yeah someone will play that.

    You CAN play what you want though. Find a guild that will let you play what you want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But no if you are say in the top 100 of guilds in the world you can't play whatever you want. But if you're playing at that level you shouldn't want to play whatever spec you want you should want to play what will get you the kill.
    Last edited by Drusin; 2020-02-18 at 11:22 AM.
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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Raiders are playing what the SIMS say is best.

    However, no one really questions sims or APLs. People like to turn off their brains and just follow the lead. (myself included)
    I wonder if Blizz released THEIR AI bots and sims, what would happen
    - if Blizz's AI is smarter than the players, we'd have "oooh" moments to play EVERY spec in the game to try to mimic Blizzard's AI.
    - if the players are smarten than Blizz's AI, can we, the players, concinve the rockstar Devs that WE want to play the lesser tuned specs and make them give a few % of buffs to low performers?

    Either way, everyone would benefit from this.
    (but as Blizz stands today, this AI would be more than laughable...)
    Players questions the sims all the time. Sometimes their hunches turns out to be right. examples would be stuff like double icelancing in legion etc, NO icelance frost playstyle in bfa, double usetrinket for fire was a big drowngrade on sims but huge dps boost, mechagon bracers for fire didnt improve your sim at all for a long time because no sim models had been made that utilized the proc, blastermaster azerite trait for fire was low on sims for most of the expansion even thou everyone and their randma knew it was the best one... and so on.

    This is just for the mageclass and for this expansion.

    Don't kid yourself into thinking that everyone blindly follows sims. Sure, some do.
    But the players that pushes the limits of the class dpswise continously find imporvments both in gearsetups and in playstyles, wich can vary alot depending on how any given encounter looks like.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  10. #70
    You can achieve CE comfortably with every spec in the game.

  11. #71
    The assumption here seems to be that "what people want to play" is different than "what currently performs best", and I've seen no proof that would speak to that being confirmed in any way.

    Like I've always played a warrior, and will probably always play it. It's usually pretty high in parses from what I know, but then again I may be wrong cause I don't really check the fotm classes regularly. It's not that someone told me what to play, it just so happens that my fav class usually tends to perform good.

    And also, below the elitist mythic level, hardly anyone cares what others tell them they should play. Regular players just enjoy their own class and play that.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    As with many things in life: You can't always have your cake and eat it.

    If you WANT to be super competitive then yes, you need to choose the best spec.
    If you WANT to be able to choose your spec then you need to accept that you're going to be a little less competitive.


    Ultimately it all boils down to what is most important to you. There is nothing in the game that dictates what spec you must play in order to participate in the content, although it does have some impact on your ranking if you're playing at the high end.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...t=80&boss=2337

    Carapace of nzoth with 1 feral druid, 1 windwalker, 3 affliction locks
    With warlocks being rock bottom.

    So that is not really true.
    And I will probably play demonology there simply because this is my main spec which I am most familiar with and it feels fun.

    I already said my RL I won't ever play affliction. Destruction only when there is huge difference between these specs. Because it ultimately boils down to survivability like this:

    https://i.imgur.com/6tzXn8U.png

    and this:

    https://i.imgur.com/DpW0J2i.png

    No matter what guild you are, first you need to ensure your raiders can stay alive for most of the fight having at least 95%+ survivability.
    Otherwise you will end up with having bunch of unreliable people and problems reclearing raids.

    And this is not true for very top guilds simply because dps is a bottleneck and you already have the best players.

  13. #73
    Bloodsail Admiral Zephire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    If you aren't playing the best available spec for your class, you are holding your team behind. If you are holding your team behind, you'll get benched. 100% of raiders have to play meta specs / builds. People who don't and claim to be "raiders" aren't actually raiders and wouldn't be raiding at all if Blizzard didn't make 3 faceroll difficulties for them.
    Or you raid mythic with whatever spec you like, like we do. The only issue is when we have a 100% melee raid where we must bench players because it would just be a waste to do some bosses with that setup. This isn't usually the case though.

    It all comes down to who you're playing with, what your group agrees on etc. We're playing for fun, progressing in mythic Nyalotha. We usually end up playing what's good because we also like progressing and we're a team but you know, it's not because we're forced to but rather that we choose to do it because we want to
    Well met!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Man even if Blizzard gave players bars of gold, they would complain that they were too heavy.

  14. #74
    You can play what you want but you kind of have to earn it if it's a "luxury" spec. I was able to main Enhance (without excessive benching) for M EP because I'd played Ele, Resto, and Resto DPS for two tiers prior and did a good job. But yeah, like the other guy said, good luck joining new guilds as a luxury spec.

    It's the unfortunate reality of things but that's why it helps to actually commit to guilds. After a certain amount of time, people will trust you enough to bring meme specs to difficult raid encounters.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Gomelus View Post
    Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
    But that person said if they had the choice they'd rather play something else, hence my question.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by clinophobia View Post
    If a gm would say this to me I would say him he can pay for my sub so I'll play what "he wants".
    a serious Guild does exactly that, after killing n'zoth (hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks) we will sell mythic kills and we are selling HC and +15 keys right now and every player gets a share of the gold usually enough to buy 4-5 tokens a month.

    I personally make 3-4 million gold a week one +15 Key goes for 700-750k gold atm on eu servers
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2020-02-18 at 04:27 PM.
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    But that person said if they had the choice they'd rather play something else, hence my question.
    According to what he said, he enjoys more actually being useful to the guild rather than playing selfish and picking whatever.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    No good ce guild, then
    Someone should reach out to Burden EU Blackmoore and tell them they're bad despite being world 200 then.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  19. #79
    i love playing frost mage more than i love fire mage.

    but there's a big titty girls only guild whose willing to take one guy in if he plays fire..

    i love big titty girls more than i love not having them.

    so i end up playing fire mage. because i love big tiddies n fire more than i love not having them with frost.

    Do you understand now?.... do you all... understand now?

  20. #80
    Weeb Queen Video Games's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Someone should reach out to Burden EU Blackmoore and tell them they're bad despite being world 200 then.
    He barely beat their blood dk on shaddar. Lol

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