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  1. #121
    Hate the op guys, not the rest of the classic community xD
    Desktop: Zotac 1080 TI, I7 7700k, 16gb Ram, 256gb SSD + 1TB HDD
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    Main Game: Warcraft Classic

    Haters gonna hate

  2. #122
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrA View Post
    Nice try. But when an upgrade like that is worth it instead of loot pinata in BFA, I'd rather play Classic.
    BFA does have it's issues, but I find the replayability at high levels such as M+/Raids/PVP better in Retail than classic's one sided-ness or overpowered stacking class stuff

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    It isn’t the fights but the rewards that’s the problem. Retail has a “everyone is special and gets a slice” mentality. No one is left out and that’s boring

    Classic actually rewards your work with gear that provides real power, and longevity. You don’t have to farm the same gear every season like it’s diablo 3
    That's an interesting point - Longevity. There's definitely a lot of value in gear having longevity, instead of being replaced every season.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...1&difficulty=4

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...ogress&boss=-1



    There are more than twice as many people in classic raids than retail raids.
    I see many more heroic and normal clears than BWL and those scale beyond 20 people, so i guess you're wrong? Thanks for providing evidence to prove my point though!

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    But there's no prestige in getting an item from easy content. You did an easy 5 man and now u hae aace better than raids till you get thunder fury that will be with you till the game dies and won't get anything from the harder content for that slot at all. Your char will have gear from easy content for its entire exhistance because of broke itemization, that's worse than titan forging it's just bad design.

    The point of an mmo is the perpetual treadmill without it the game stagnates and dies. There always needs to be a new goal, and there needs to be greater prestige from that harder things than the easy and no one should want to be carrying about some mace from a 5man when clearing several tiers later, that's just arse.
    Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good in life, and classic represents that better than retail as well

    And I will have to climb the progression ladder to replace with either thunderfury or aq40.

    Who cares if something is powerful if it has such a short life span you can’t enjoy it fully (retail seasons and the homogenization of gear)

    How can you show off gear when everyone has the same gear at different levels because everyone gets a piece of the pie?

    And so what if thunderfury lasts me all of classic, in 5 years I could pick classic back up and still have that godly OP feeling. Longevity matters in an rpg.

    You may enjoy the hamster treadmill, but your proving my point for me actually that the game is too seasonal and feels more like diablo 3 than wow vanilla or eq

    An important part of an rpg is the ending. The treadmill of retail denies your character a beginning, a middle, and an end. You are just one of many identical gear hamsters running endlessly for gear that is worthless weeks or months later

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    People prefer games that are easier to jump into. Classic in all areas of the game, is easier than Retail. It's also why LoL was the more popular moba at launch over HoN or Dota 2. It was slower and far easier to learn than the other two games.

    If your player base craves super difficult stuff, then it will be successful, just look at savage raids in FFXIV. But WoW has never been that game, wow is about clout. Look at that hand of rag, look at the thunderfury. People like seeing iconic items and dreaming about getting them. knowing its only a 1-2 mechanic raid fight away. The average player barely clears normal in retail wow. and I feel like a scrub for just barely missing CE almost every tier.
    You're right in one way, but so wrong in another.

    Yes Classic is easy, no point denying it. But so is BfA if you want it to be, I leveled my old main (paladin) from 100 to 120 through Alterac Valley in just under 5 hours. Then I did some timewalking dungeons, which I didn't talk or communicate with anyone in, before I had high enough item level to queue for LFR. 5 days laters, about 30-40 hours, I had high enough item level to do the newest LFR (first wing of Ny'alotha) and completed that in about an hour. Again I didn't talk to anyone and I somehow ended up with 2 items. Obviously you can go into way harder content in BfA, which there's no comparative content to in Classic. But you definitely can faceroll through BfA just as you can faceroll through Classic.

    To me there are two things that makes Classic (and TBC, WotLK and to some degree Cata and MoP) fun.
    1. Character progression feels important, relevant and paced at a speed that makes you care about your character progression.
    In Classic raiding, or even leveling, you rarely get upgrades. In raids you can go weeks or months without getting an item, that means you value upgrades a lot when you finally get them. In BfA (and Legion) that isn't the case, you get so many items thrown at you for almost no work at all. In a days worth of playing I replaced half my paladins gear, I know that doesn't happen once you get really well geared... but still you end up with items you simply don't care about. In older versions of the game you could keep an item for several tiers of raids, that's not the case anymore.
    2. Realm Community, I can't stress enough how important it is to have this in the game. In Classic I know dozens of people by name who I never knew before classic, my guild have "friendly guilds" who trade raiding materials and so on. You also learn which players or guilds from the enemy faction are friendly and who aren't, all of this happens because realms are isolated and in one dimension. There's no phasing, flying, cross realm, layering and other crap that makes the world empty and without the need to make connections. If you're a friendly and good player that pays off, if you're a "bad egg" then that doesn't pay off. This "forces" you to behave in a civilized manner, which makes the game better for everyone, in modern WoW this isn't a thing... you can be the biggest douchebag in a dungeon, ninjapull and do whatever the F pleases you... because you're unlikely to ever group with the same people again for a very long time. Modern WoW has in my eyes long lost the MMO part of it's title, it's almost lost the RP part aswell. Honestly modern WoW is closer to a dungeon slasher (like Diablo) than a RPG, it's not a MMO at all.
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  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    That's an interesting point - Longevity. There's definitely a lot of value in gear having longevity, instead of being replaced every season.
    Ya it’s my biggest peeve with retail. They replaced the ladder progression system for a seasonal system where no one is left out, but only one raid tier is ever valid at a time. It’s actually less content when you think about it

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by MrA View Post
    Nice try. But when an upgrade like that is worth it instead of loot pinata in BFA, I'd rather play Classic.
    Nice try at what. If an item from an entry level 5man is so powerful it beats items from the "hardest" content.

    That's not good game design at all. It's just pandering to casuals and lazy people who want things to be one and done, that's not good for the longevity of an mmo.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Its like, any one heared of sneak? It's a drink, comes as powder and you mix it with water, has caggine in it but no sugar or carbs, I love it and buy it on the regular, but I also now see ads for it on almost every website, does that mean sneak is super popular? No I doubt it. Just means I'm the kind of person that would buy it, which I am, cos I buy it fml.
    Which also means the ad is completely wasted on you. These algorithms are actually rather stupid.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Nice try at what. If an item from an entry level 5man is so powerful it beats items from the "hardest" content.

    That's not good game design at all. It's just pandering to casuals and lazy people who want things to be one and done, that's not good for the longevity of an mmo.
    Nothing wrong with having very rare items drop from 5 mans. Like 0.15% for ironfoe so it isn’t something you can farm

    Rare items in mmorpgs should come from all places and classic does that better than retail. Almost all the end game 5 mans offer 1 purple at a less than 1% drop rate. It keeps people running it forever and organically without m+, ap or bribing them with weekly drops.

    It’s actually the very essence of what an rpg is and it’s brilliant game design

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Where are these numbers from? All i can see is this:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...etric=progress

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...s&difficulty=3

    Pretty close.

    Then you have this:

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...etric=progress

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...etric=progress

    Not very close. In fact a HUGE decline. I know real numbers are scaring you. But actually try using them instead of using wishful thinking.
    Why are you comparing how many guilds have finished EP vs how many guilds have finished NYA when NYA just came out?

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    I see many more heroic and normal clears than BWL and those scale beyond 20 people, so i guess you're wrong? Thanks for providing evidence to prove my point though!
    Wow, BWL has been out 1 week. There are many guilds still on MC without 1 BWL boss down. You can't justify your response by 1 new to Classic raid.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    That's an interesting point - Longevity. There's definitely a lot of value in gear having longevity, instead of being replaced every season.
    It's all fun and games unless you're a HC raider and the only reason you aren't done in a month are the 39 others facerolling the same raid.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by ssjgohan4life View Post
    Why are you comparing how many guilds have finished EP vs how many guilds have finished NYA when NYA just came out?
    Its not about showing how many guilds finished that raid. It shows how many guilds progress through EP and NYA - the actual progress does not matter.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Nice try at what. If an item from an entry level 5man is so powerful it beats items from the "hardest" content.

    That's not good game design at all. It's just pandering to casuals and lazy people who want things to be one and done, that's not good for the longevity of an mmo.
    Do you have any idea how long it could take to get some of that gear to drop? Our top dps still hasn't gotten Savage Glad Chest from BRD yet, after around 300+ times going into there. Our tank tried over 600+ times to get Ironfoe that I thought he lived in BRD. Btw, he is in there now as I type this still going at it. He does about 40 runs a day as he is retired. You can't say just because it's a 5 man dungeon that it is so easy to get the gear.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    I see many more heroic and normal clears than BWL and those scale beyond 20 people, so i guess you're wrong? Thanks for providing evidence to prove my point though!
    Those logs you linked are comparing MC to Palace, not BWL.

  17. #137
    The Lightbringer
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    Because of dimwits using their statistics to make ridiculous arguments like this as if there's even a contest - we'll never know.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  18. #138
    Stood in the Fire Garretdejiko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Casual players do not like casual games. Its myth.
    Oh god, almost got a seizure.

    HotS ins't dead, it just look dead. It died with the 2018 esport fiasco.
    OW came late to the "TF2 lookalikes" gold rush.

    I think i'm a myth then, cause i'm a casual and I enjoy the casual aspect of WoW.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Its not about showing how many guilds finished that raid. It shows how many guilds progress through EP and NYA - the actual progress does not matter.
    People are comparing the 10k+ to the 3k+ from those logs which are only guilds that have killed every boss AND only on the one difficulty.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Explains why every ad I've seen has been for new allied races or N'zoth saying we're fucked.
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    Kupo.

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