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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Where are these numbers from? All i can see is this:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...etric=progress

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...s&difficulty=3

    Pretty close.

    Then you have this:

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...etric=progress

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...etric=progress

    Not very close. In fact a HUGE decline. I know real numbers are scaring you. But actually try using them instead of using wishful thinking.
    Pretty close? You've gone from 10,7k to 3,8k.

    But sure, let's talk numbers, BWL came out last thursday 5 days, roughly 120 hours of raid uptime, has 3,4k logged and thats 28 fresh guilds clearing every hour. While Nyalotha came out 28 days ago, roughly 672 hours of raid uptime with 3,8k clears, while nyalotha has 5,6 fresh clears every hour.

    Also add in that no BWL raid is under 30 people (most are 40 man), while normal & hc are 10+ people, you have a VERY clear NUMERICAL conclusion that more people are raiding classic than retail.
    Last edited by OriginalName; 2020-02-17 at 04:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    Maybe they can poll the AI and figure out why their game sucks.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    It’s usually the retail crowd constantly trying to tear down the classic crowd because either their guild folded for classic, they lost friends fo classic or “they simple don’t understand how people could enjoy older content”

    Classic players will mock the retail game, but they tend to just play classic and don’t make forum threads too often.

    But there are daily anti classic threads here from the pro retail crowd. Every chance they get.

    There’s room for both versions of wow to co exist but the retail crowd had got to let the classic hate go
    Hah. Could have sworn it's the other way around with the classic crowd making threads out of nowhere about how much retail sucks, kind of like this one. Or retail conspiracies against classic etc.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Pretty close? You've gone from 10,7k to 3,8k.

    But sure, let's talk numbers, BWL came out last thursday 5 days, roughly 120 hours of raid uptime, has 3,4k logged clears while Nyalotha came out 28 days ago, roughly 672 hours of raid uptime with 3,8k clears.
    Lol. Those are damning numbers for retail

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Hah. Could have sworn it's the other way around with the classic crowd making threads out of nowhere about how much retail sucks, kind of like this one. Or retail conspiracies against classic etc.
    Nope. There’s no question on this site that the pro retail crowd vs pro classic crowd... that the pro retail crowd is by far, the more toxic of the two.

    Most classic players will bash retail, but not the players. Retail players? Not so much, they not only bash classic as a game but attack it’s players with all kinds of wild theories about why it’s popular ranging from nostalgia, to just downright delusional nonsense.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Pretty close? You've gone from 10,7k to 3,8k.

    But sure, let's talk numbers, BWL came out last thursday 5 days, roughly 120 hours of raid uptime, has 3,4k logged clears while Nyalotha came out 28 days ago, roughly 672 hours of raid uptime with 3,8k clears.
    What? You don't even understand the statistic. DUDE YOU HAVE TO ADD THE NUMBERS. From palace to nyalotha it's pretty close.

    Also, you assume that more players will be doing the raid later on in the tier than at its release? WTH?

    Seriously tho everyone knew that classic would be losing players - but actually seeing these numbers. I didn't think it would be that many jumping off.

  5. #85
    I think retail is objectively a better game ( thats my opinion) But i will give classic that it is alot more new player friendly, you can just hop in and level or do an instance, you dont have a ton of overlapping complicated systems essences/azerite/cape/corruption that require you to read guides and sim your character to understand, I really hope they dont bring a corruption like system into SL

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Let me give you a single example... I have ironfoe in classic. It will forever be godly.

    In retail, it would have an incredibly short lifespan before I’d have to farm another m+ ironfoe. And then another. And another. And another....

    Gear becomes meaningless when it’s so seasonal, it’s practically mmo diablo 3.

    classic gear has far more value and weight to them. Those items are always going to be great and only can be replaced by climbing further up the ladder and earning a replacement.

    Vs retail where you can just come back next season and have gear lobbed at you. It’s unearned and boring.

    An mmorpg is better when it is reflective of the real world and has social structures, and haves and have nots
    That's just poor itemization. That ironfoe is a poorly designed item thats power is out of balance with the difficulty it came from. Imagine if a blue axe in retail beat raid level gear.

    What you have is a titan forged hammer from a 5man that beats what raiders can get In a raid.

    That's not a good thing.

    What's worse is that gonna be the Hammer till AQ, that's gear stagnation, your stuck with the ugly looking Hammer for months and months and months till you will find an upgrade, it feels nice now but after 6months of the same gear and the same power as u hope for that one drop that's probly gonna go to the sweaty dude with more dkp than you..... Yea really attractive.

    Retail ain't great mind. My argument is simply classic is also shit.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    It’s usually the retail crowd constantly trying to tear down the classic crowd because either their guild folded for classic, they lost friends fo classic or “they simple don’t understand how people could enjoy older content”

    Classic players will mock the retail game, but they tend to just play classic and don’t make forum threads too often.

    But there are daily anti classic threads here from the pro retail crowd. Every chance they get.

    There’s room for both versions of wow to co exist but the retail crowd had got to let the classic hate go
    Eh, dunno. Ever since classic were announced people were making threads how classic will beat retail. You still see threads constantly on how much better classic is and how many more players it has. You rarely see the opposite.
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    That's just poor itemization. That ironfoe is a poorly designed item thats power is out of balance with the difficulty it came from. Imagine if a blue axe in retail beat raid level gear.

    What you have is a titan forged hammer from a 5man that beats what raiders can get In a raid.

    That's not a good thing.

    What's worse is that gonna be the Hammer till AQ, that's gear stagnation, your stuck with the ugly looking Hammer for months and months and months till you will find an upgrade, it feels nice now but after 6months of the same gear and the same power as u hope for that one drop that's probly gonna go to the sweaty dude with more dkp than you..... Yea really attractive.

    Retail ain't great mind. My argument is simply classic is also shit.
    Bro I was server first ironfoe on Herod. Got it second week of September and it’s been 6 months already with it. It has only gotten better with time

    It has more value than any gear I’ve got in retail since tbc days.

    That’s what I mean, it will forever be good and won’t be replaced every 3 months for a new season

    Not only that, but if I want to replace it I have to actually climb the progression ladder until i can. I can’t just wait til next season like retails diablo 3 design

    I’m also the MT so I will replace with thunderfury, which will be far more rewarding than ANY piece in retail I’ve ever earned. (I farmed the mats solo btw, minus the bindings, so it feels earned)

    Gear should be powerful and offer longevity beyond a season. There should be haves and have nots in an mmorpg, just like the real world. I prefer an mmorpg where, to get what I want, I have to keep climbing the ladder so to speak vs retail where everyone stays on their step forever.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Garretdejiko View Post
    Cause HoTS arrived 6 years late. People like myself got into League and spent a hefty amount of buckeroos on lame skins. When HotS lauched I always wanted to play it more seriously BUT, the amount of time and money i've spent on League, plus the stupid cost of Heroes deterred me a lot.
    Now that I don't bother anymore with League, I'd love to take HotS seriously, but it feels so fucking abandoned. Art team was top notch. Without looking like Korean/Malasyan bullshit, achieved the next step on Blizz art style evolution (Seriously, they should have used HotS art team on Reforged).

    Don't get me wrong, i despise Classic. Way before Classic was relaunched, I tried a Vanilla pserver when I got a MMO itch after playing League for 5 years. The vanilla experience was so irritating to me, I resubbed to Legion since Cata. Classic is easier, doesn't need additional expansions, but It takes the amount of time some people don't have anymore.
    Sorry but time have nothing to do with popularity of game. This utter nonsense that players always jump after more casual version of the game is absolute nonsense. Becouse if your game goes super casual like hots sense of reward and learning curve is so small that game ends up boring. What works is to find middle ground where game is easy to get into and as you progress game becomes harder and harder but not in terms of difficulty levels but in terms of content. Difficulty levels do not work. People will always pick easyest difficulty, finish content and leave. Legue isnt casual at high ranks but is casual enough to keep players playing on lower ranks and same time create in those players desire gey better thanks to exclusive rewards on higher ranks.

    Look at Overwatch. That game didnt comeout late and is super casual. Game is practicaly dead. Casual players do not like casual games. Its myth.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Eh, dunno. Ever since classic were announced people were making threads how classic will beat retail. You still see threads constantly on how much better classic is and how many more players it has. You rarely see the opposite.
    Go to the classic forums right now. 80% of posts are anti classic troll posts from pro retail crowd.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Because in retail any guild can raid with 8 so it’ll have more overall guilds, but considering classic raids are 40 man and minimum 30 man if you want to have a prayer in bwl... there’s more players raiding in classic than retail by a large margin
    My guild runs with 33 in heroic and 20 mythic.

    Not to mention the socials who don't raid.

    And we arn't even counting the raw casuals, the arena players, rbg players, pet battlers. Your making claims based on a slice of one community of retail, that has over double the number of guilds logging progression any way than classic and is in a game with far more communities and endgame activities than classic and saying that some how it shows classic, even with less than half the logs in the area has more players?

    And you want me and others to belive that, just sit and think about it. It's one of the scetchiest arguments I've seen in a long while. Nit to mention it dosnt help the OP after all his comment was about logs and that's what we disproved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Bro I was server first ironfoe on Herod. Got it second week of September and it’s been 6 months already with it. It has only gotten better with time

    It has more value than any gear I’ve got in retail since tbc days.

    That’s what I mean, it will forever be good and won’t be replaced every 3 months for a new season

    Not only that, but if I want to replace it I have to actually climb the progression ladder until i can. I can’t just wait til next season like retails diablo 3 design

    I’m also the MT so I will replace with thunderfury, which will be far more rewarding than ANY piece in retail I’ve ever earned. (I farmed the mats solo btw, minus the bindings, so it feels earned)

    Gear should be powerful and offer longevity beyond a season. There should be haves and have nots in an mmorpg, just like the real world. I prefer an mmorpg where, to get what I want, I have to keep climbing the ladder so to speak vs retail where everyone stays on their step forever.
    To me that sounds awful and sad. That slot is a dead slot for ages.

    You haven't cloned a ladder, you got lucky in an easy 5man and now ur stuck with the same wep for ages and ages, every one else get to experience getting weapon upgrades, your stuck with that thing till like AQ at least.

    That sounds utterly horrible to me. I can't imagine the idea of doing content without the ability to upgrade the coolest most important slot on my char.

    That's not a gear ladder that's a gear stepping stool, it's worse than titan forging, it's just broken itemization.
    Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2020-02-17 at 04:34 PM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Go to the classic forums right now. 80% of posts are anti classic troll posts from pro retail crowd.
    Only see 1 thread which is there to stir up problem from the title. Which is this one, which is pro classic.
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Only see 1 thread which is there to stir up problem from the title. Which is this one, which is pro classic.
    I count at least half on the first page

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I count at least half on the first page
    Oh? I see most threads asking what the next step will be.
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  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Are you just trolling?

    First off, we know there was a drop off... but considering classic more than doubled (almost tripled) wow sub #’s according to activision themselves, I’d still bet classic has more weekly players than retail.

    Secondly, I brought up Mc because you are determined to compare a 2 month old raid to a raid 5 days old.

    So compare the player counts of bwl this week vs nyalotha. Not the guild count, the player count.

    Come back after you’ve eaten that humble pie
    You want player count? Here you go buddy.

    https://wowclassicpopulation.com/

    633k players in the last 14 days.

    And are you really comparing an easy ass raid that everyone knows how to run to a new raid that people have to learn that actually takes effort? Of course more people are going to be running the former. That doesn't mean anything in terms of player count.

    It's also cute that you're trying to exaggerate the number. They straight said doubled. This "almost tripled" thing is literally out of nowhere. And that was doubling when Classic launched, we already know that a large number of players only played for that launch month and dropped again.

    I went and double checked Wowprogress for comparison, and they list almost a mil currently active characters for US alone. Unfortunately you have to add each realm individually and I don't feel like doing that for EU as well.

    Now, I will note that we don't have data on Chinese realms, and Blizz has said that Classic is very popular in their Eastern markets, but the player count in the West at least is pretty clearly still skewed towards the Retail market.

    If you don't like that, then look at market data. Wowuction showed a dip in AH listings for about a month, then it basically went back to normal. Unfortunately the change to the AH they just put in means they can't datamine auctions with their old method, so the last data we have is from Jan, but there was 20-30bil on the market during that time, which is the same as there was pre-Cata.

  16. #96
    You cant even compare the 2 realy..

    The entry for retail is significantly higher and much more stresfull.

    Whereass classics entry is about the same as level 1 candy crush.

    And in retail, U can get the same if not better gear by entering 5 mans with close friends. Which is more fun then being part of a large team where your just a number realy,

    Quality retail is definitly so much ahead of classic, it cant even be compared lol

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Go to the classic forums right now. 80% of posts are anti classic troll posts from pro retail crowd.
    Just looked at both Blizz forums and MMO-Champ, there is not one troll post on the front or second page of either. Why are you lying?

  18. #98
    The amount of baseless posturing in this thread is nauseating.

  19. #99
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    Definitely, Classic is booming whilst retail is a ghost town. Pretty obvious.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by SinAscendant View Post
    Just looked at both Blizz forums and MMO-Champ, there is not one troll post on the front or second page of either. Why are you lying?
    You must be blind or have unrealistic standards of what trolling is.

    I counted about 25% per page.

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