Page 8 of 26 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
18
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Nothing wrong with having very rare items drop from 5 mans. Like 0.15% for ironfoe so it isn’t something you can farm

    Rare items in mmorpgs should come from all places and classic does that better than retail. Almost all the end game 5 mans offer 1 purple at a less than 1% drop rate. It keeps people running it forever and organically without m+, ap or bribing them with weekly drops.

    It’s actually the very essence of what an rpg is and it’s brilliant game design
    I disagree, I think it's literal garbage design.

    The reason m+ works is it has a scaling difficulty. Running Scholo 100 times isn't fun because it's exactly the same thing every single time, running Waycrest 100 times is more fun when you're progressing into +20 keys and such. The gear is largely irrelevant, the fun comes from progressing and doing something more difficult than you had done before. Facerolling a classic dungeon over and over and over so you have a shot at a 1% drop is miserable and I literally can't think of anything less fun.

    I guess that's why I don't do any end game content in classic other than the occasional BG, because the design is actually horrible and the only reason I put up with it 15 years ago was because there was no alternative.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    You're right in one way, but so wrong in another.

    Yes Classic is easy, no point denying it. But so is BfA if you want it to be, I leveled my old main (paladin) from 100 to 120 through Alterac Valley in just under 5 hours. Then I did some timewalking dungeons, which I didn't talk or communicate with anyone in, before I had high enough item level to queue for LFR. 5 days laters, about 30-40 hours, I had high enough item level to do the newest LFR (first wing of Ny'alotha) and completed that in about an hour. Again I didn't talk to anyone and I somehow ended up with 2 items. Obviously you can go into way harder content in BfA, which there's no comparative content to in Classic. But you definitely can faceroll through BfA just as you can faceroll through Classic.

    To me there are two things that makes Classic (and TBC, WotLK and to some degree Cata and MoP) fun.
    1. Character progression feels important, relevant and paced at a speed that makes you care about your character progression.
    In Classic raiding, or even leveling, you rarely get upgrades. In raids you can go weeks or months without getting an item, that means you value upgrades a lot when you finally get them. In BfA (and Legion) that isn't the case, you get so many items thrown at you for almost no work at all. In a days worth of playing I replaced half my paladins gear, I know that doesn't happen once you get really well geared... but still you end up with items you simply don't care about. In older versions of the game you could keep an item for several tiers of raids, that's not the case anymore.
    2. Realm Community, I can't stress enough how important it is to have this in the game. In Classic I know dozens of people by name who I never knew before classic, my guild have "friendly guilds" who trade raiding materials and so on. You also learn which players or guilds from the enemy faction are friendly and who aren't, all of this happens because realms are isolated and in one dimension. There's no phasing, flying, cross realm, layering and other crap that makes the world empty and without the need to make connections. If you're a friendly and good player that pays off, if you're a "bad egg" then that doesn't pay off. This "forces" you to behave in a civilized manner, which makes the game better for everyone, in modern WoW this isn't a thing... you can be the biggest douchebag in a dungeon, ninjapull and do whatever the F pleases you... because you're unlikely to ever group with the same people again for a very long time. Modern WoW has in my eyes long lost the MMO part of it's title, it's almost lost the RP part aswell. Honestly modern WoW is closer to a dungeon slasher (like Diablo) than a RPG, it's not a MMO at all.
    What you described, takes zero skill at all. Literally a warm body pushing buttons. You with that type of logic would never clear Heroic or Mythic. Ever. LFR was made to cater to the most casual of casuals. And it does that perfectly, and I love it for doing so. When school/work was rough, I didn't have time to raid at the hardcore end game, but LFR was there to still help me see the content.

    Different is, in BFA there is content that is challenging if you seek it out and want to be challenged. There is not in classic.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by MrA View Post
    Nice try. But when an upgrade like that is worth it instead of loot pinata in BFA, I'd rather play Classic.
    I actually have kinda mixed feelings about this. Gearing in Classic is slower meaning that getting a good upgrade is more rare and gives a great feeling.

    My problem is that my guild cleared bwl in first day and I play only to raid. Therefore, getting upgrades is not very meaningful because all content is already done. I have better gear and so what? In retail however the gear is meaningful because its needed to clear the content.

    So its kinda the tradeoff between difficult to get but useless and easy to get but useful.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...1&difficulty=4

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...ogress&boss=-1



    There are more than twice as many people in classic raids than retail raids.
    lovely, there is roughly 600more groups in logs for classic molten core than for eternal palace... HEROIC so if you add mythic, normal and lfr (which is most populated afaik) you will see there is more than that raiding retail...

  5. #145
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,877
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    It’s usually the retail crowd constantly trying to tear down the classic crowd because either their guild folded for classic, they lost friends fo classic or “they simple don’t understand how people could enjoy older content”

    Classic players will mock the retail game, but they tend to just play classic and don’t make forum threads too often.

    But there are daily anti classic threads here from the pro retail crowd. Every chance they get.
    While I agree that both versions can co-exist, please don't pretend one side is "better" than the other. Classic players like to shit on modern WoW just as much as modern players like to shit on Classic.

    BTW, your post is quite ironic considering you're posting that in a pro-classic, anti-modern WoW thread.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    lovely, there is roughly 600more groups in logs for classic molten core than for eternal palace... HEROIC so if you add mythic, normal and lfr (which is most populated afaik) you will see there is more than that raiding retail...
    But then you're double counting and even triple counting most players....

    If you want to make the comparison using all difficulties then you'd have to compare MC + Ony + BWL + Another raid vs EP LFR + EP N + EP H + EP M

    Obviously not a fair comparison, but neither is adding 4 difficulties. EP Normal + EP Mythic vs MC would be pretty fair possibly, there's probably very little overlap in players who do Mythic AND normal, and anyone not doing Mythic is probably doing Normal.
    Last edited by barrsftw; 2020-02-17 at 06:13 PM.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Phurox View Post
    I'd say it shows that there's a problem with retails raiding. People prefer simpler fights
    i would say it shows problem with people pulling their numbers out of their asses
    couple comments before yours there was link to logs where is roughly the same amount of logs for MC than for Eternal palace, but HEROIC only... given that more people raid normal, and even more LFR its safe bet to say more people raid on retail than on classic...

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    No it's not, sorry dude. Doesn't mean that Classic is any less fun.

    https://www.classicqueues.com/



    Queue guy literally repeats how there's a lack of queues in Classic aka players dropping off.
    Wow, you're really clutching at straws thinking that means Classic is dying. Sorry mate, retail is near empty and Classic is far more popular, better to just admit it rather than live in denial :/

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Good for you, to me that's just sad as you won't get to experience an upgrade and your gears now stagnant due to poor itemization.
    You're not understanding my point. What is there to experience about gear you're guaranteed to upgrade every patch within a week? I could go back to retail, binge on some Mythic+ dungeons and have 90% of my power cap for the tier obtained in a week. Next tier, I do the same thing all over again.

    No piece of gear matters, no piece of gear lasts. Nothing feels good to get because it's a seasonal system of gear replacement. Nameless gear you transmog over because stuff from 10 years ago looks better.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You could play wow classic 10 years and not have thunderfury. It requires a guild and social structure.

    And again, an important part of an rpg is being able to reach the end. Not hamsters running on treadmills gaining nothing of value.

    Unless the average warrior can solo Mc, and gather 10k worth of mats themselves they’ll never have thunderfury

    Same for your mages with Atiesh theory, good luck getting into a naxx guild

    Ps - your story about the hammer at the end says it all about you. Me me me me. Not a team player
    This is an mmo, not an rpg. If you want an end play dragonage. MMOs are about a living breathing world and constant progress and story.

    When it comes to classic it is me me me only reason I playing this shower shit is cos they wanted me to.

    I already have a binding, not sure what I'm gonna do with thuderfury when I get that as a holy pala but w/e probs throw it in the collection of junk in my bank.

    This games fucking cushey when you control the loot council.
    Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2020-02-17 at 06:24 PM.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    And classic STILL has more people raiding than retail. That’s an indictment on retail raiding. Don’t forget that during your childish trolling.
    it doesnt it had little more raiders in mc than eternal palace ON HEROIC ONLY which is not even most occupied difficulty

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    lovely, there is roughly 600more groups in logs for classic molten core than for eternal palace... HEROIC so if you add mythic, normal and lfr (which is most populated afaik) you will see there is more than that raiding retail...
    The reason they only chose one difficulty in retail is that many people do 3 if not all 4 difficulties. This makes it hard to distinguish how many actual players there are. You could very well be counting the same players 4 times, and even further x how many alts they are running as it is 800% easier to have alts raiding in BFA then Classic due to the longer leveling process for alts.

    Most people only run 1 maybe 2 alts for the average player in Classic. Most of the players in BFA run anywhere between 6-10 alts, with at least 2-4 of them raiding (guestimating based on what I've seen from streamers, guildies, and others). I know its not the best representation of the community but a good guess.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Factsbeforefeelings View Post
    No piece of gear matters, no piece of gear lasts. Nothing feels good to get because it's a seasonal system of gear replacement. Nameless gear you transmog over because stuff from 10 years ago looks better.
    Gear is certinaly "nameless" compared to classic; no doubt about that. But the heroic/Mythic sets in current WoW are among the best sets in the game. Mythic WoD, Legion and BFA sets have all been amazing for the most part.

  14. #154
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    8,015
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    What you described, takes zero skill at all. Literally a warm body pushing buttons. You with that type of logic would never clear Heroic or Mythic. Ever. LFR was made to cater to the most casual of casuals. And it does that perfectly, and I love it for doing so. When school/work was rough, I didn't have time to raid at the hardcore end game, but LFR was there to still help me see the content.

    Different is, in BFA there is content that is challenging if you seek it out and want to be challenged. There is not in classic.
    You just strawmanned his entire post. He talks about what makes an MMO fun, and you start rambling about difficulty.

    How do you know he wouldn't clear Heroic/Mythic? You're assuming so much about someone without even seeing them play.

    You can also still play a class much better than other people on Classic, you make it sound like any noob can walk into a raid and get a 99 parse. It still takes a degree of skill and preparation, sure maybe not as much as retail now or previous iterations, but there's still a lot to distinguish skilled players from bad ones.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Don't reply, he is trolling.

    He knows that BWL has only been out for a week, it's hardly enough to make a judgement, but acts as if going from 10k guilds to 3k guilds in nyalotha isn't a reduction, since nyalotha hasn't been out for long enough.
    sorry to burst your bubble, but EP normal was raided (according to raider.io) by 17,5k guilds over its whole duration, while nyalotha by almost 14k over the brief period its out... so no, the decline on retail is not that huge as on classic...

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Factsbeforefeelings View Post
    You're not understanding my point. What is there to experience about gear you're guaranteed to upgrade every patch within a week? I could go back to retail, binge on some Mythic+ dungeons and have 90% of my power cap for the tier obtained in a week. Next tier, I do the same thing all over again.

    No piece of gear matters, no piece of gear lasts. Nothing feels good to get because it's a seasonal system of gear replacement. Nameless gear you transmog over because stuff from 10 years ago looks better.
    Non of the classic gear matters, non of its special every one is going to get it eventualy because the games stagnant, boring and repetitive. Just a bunch of fucks farming nqx for the 100000s time all decked out with legos and bis trinkets. That why alot of Pservers have a freaking reset ffs. Shit get stale and servers get fucking waky when most of them have bis gear, it also gets unplayable on pvp servers cos power masivly outstripped defence in vanilla, pvp became a one shot fest and tbc was damn breath of fresh air for reseting every one.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    This is an mmo, not an rpg. If you want an end play draonage. MMOs are about a living breathing world and constant progress and story.

    When it comes to classic it is me me me only reason I playing this shower shit is cos they wanted me to.

    I already have a binding, not sure what I'm gonna do with thuderfury when I get that as a holy pala but w/e probs throw it in the collection of junk in my bank.

    This games fucking cushey when you control the loot council.
    I don’t believe you quite frankly. No guild would give a binding to a holy paladin over the tank. Your guild would’ve instantly fallen apart on the spot.

    And you are forgetting the important part of mmoRPG. It’s RPG.

    Retail has lost that tho and retail is an mmo arpg. It’s more diablo3 arpg than Everquest like rpg

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Pretty close? You've gone from 10,7k to 3,8k.

    But sure, let's talk numbers, BWL came out last thursday 5 days, roughly 120 hours of raid uptime, has 3,4k logged and thats 28 fresh guilds clearing every hour. While Nyalotha came out 28 days ago, roughly 672 hours of raid uptime with 3,8k clears, while nyalotha has 5,6 fresh clears every hour.

    Also add in that no BWL raid is under 30 people (most are 40 man), while normal & hc are 10+ people, you have a VERY clear NUMERICAL conclusion that more people are raiding classic than retail.
    yeah, bcs nyalotha is not being cleaared on first day by morons
    compare amount of people who RAID not who cleared it, that is way more accurate as retail raiding is not on retarded difficulty so not everybody already cleared it...

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Which also means the ad is completely wasted on you. These algorithms are actually rather stupid.
    Yea they are pritty dumb. I clicked on one of them share buying ads once and I get that now nearly every YouTube vid.

    Dunno how popular buying fractional shares is but it looks damned popular when I get 10-20 ads a night about it :/

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    But then you're double counting and even triple counting most players....

    If you want to make the comparison using all difficulties then you'd have to compare MC + Ony + BWL + Another raid vs EP LFR + EP N + EP H + EP M

    Obviously not a fair comparison, but neither is adding 4 difficulties. EP Normal + EP Mythic vs MC would be pretty fair possibly, there's probably very little overlap in players who do Mythic AND normal, and anyone not doing Mythic is probably doing Normal.
    you are assuming MOST people raid all difficulties, which is incorect... most people raid 1-2 difficulties...

    somehow comparing single difficulty when there are people raiding on another 3 difficulties is unfair too, but hey, that seemed to be in favor of YOUR argument, so that was ok right? lovely double standards...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •