Helping non-mythic raiders understand mythic raider mindset

[kaminaris]

Dude, there is no difference between normal and mythic raiders. They are the same people, it is all a matter of time investment.

Been there, done that. Now, after 15 years playing, I don´t feel like wow should be a 2 hours per day grinding job, so I chill out on HC raiding. You can not do that on mythic, you have to grind everything cause that 1% makes a difference.

False, I don't do shit, still clear mythic. Gear is not going to replace skill because what matters is consistency and not dying.
Anyone who thinks dps is most important is either from top 20 guild or is going to fail in progression as usual.

[Ezyah]

There is no "I" in team. If you're a mythic raider, you are playing for the team first and for yourself second.

Big lol mate. Most of us just want to parse and get loots. Not talking about the tank / healer but as a dps it's you versus 1/the other dps of the raid and 2/the other dps of your spec

[prwraith]

Exactly. that is why being in a guid that clears like half of myhtic bosses are good enough for me. 5-6 bosses each raid is both challanging and fun enough to keep this as a game to have fun or spend your free time.

The problem with that is. You end up with half the raid team wanting to go further and half the raid team happy with where they're at. Guilds like that end up breaking. You either chase cutting edge or you don't exist .

[Lei]

You make zero sense so I'm ending with this:

The blizz dev team is stupid, slow to change, and solicits zero feedback from the community (alpha and betas are for marketing and free testing from their community, but they have no interest in feedback about systems design). That's why it takes two expansions for them to realize something any somewhat intelligent person can see from the announcement of the idea.

Read the ShadowLands features announcement where they specifically say they didn't like Legiondary distribution (and btw, Ion said it wasn't a problem in Legion, lol, stupid leading stupid). Read where they say Anima won't be infinitely grindable. How you think these systems are good and liked yet so cancerous to the future of ShadowLands that they had to get rid of them is truly mind boggling. Your justification skills are impressive but easy to see through for anyone with an IQ above 80.

At this point I bleieve features and dev reasonings when I see them in game (see corruption gear vs titanforging, tier sets vs azerite sets etc etc) They say something, but do the opposite very often these days.

Where on earth did you read that I think AP grind was liked and successful? I said players HAD to participate in it, so they did, and the playtime went up significantly. So it was profitable. Of course the players seem to be in infinite grind fatigue now (no wonder), so something has to change, and yes, anima is promised to be capped and be a less time consuming thing, which I will believe when I see it. But this is not FOR the players. This is because they are forced to do something at this point. Adding them was not FOR the players either. It was for profit. Black desert came out in 2014 december. Legion came out in 2016 august. Black desert was a successful game even in the west, even tho it was just a korean style grindfest of a game, "western" people seemed to be down with it (well, for a couple of months at least ). WoW devs often "borrow" ideas from other mmos. I guess they had to at least try to get their slice out of the cake...

Online platforms fight for our time. From youtube to mobas, to card games. They want people to invest the most possible time engaging with their product. This is why playtime went up this much. Not for the poor "nothing to do"-ers.

[Zubacz]

While I don't agree with the OP and think the best mythic raiders are defined by skill and ambition, at least half of the answers kind of prove OP's point. <<I>> don't want to do this and that. <<I>> think this sounds like a second job. <<I>> should be able to have fun. Sounds like laziness and entitlement to me.

[Byleth]

I prefer playing WoW to have fun, not work. I'm not alone in that, am I?

Definitely not. Have fun is my only criteria for ANY game. If I'm not having fun, then it's onto the next thing. Happens to me with WoW from time to time, and I take breaks.

[Marrilaife]

So how exactly do you suggest they do that?

1. After WF race is completed retune bosses accordingly (for example counter class stacking strats).
2. Keep weekly caps on important progression to cull no-lifing.
3. Don't put OP BOE tradable items (corruption...)
4. Don't add endlessly grindable "alternative progression" and ensure you're more prepared for x content by doing THAT CONTENT. No bullshit like "best gear for pvp comes from pve, best gear for raiding comes from m+" etc. Endlessly grindable "progression" only caters to no-lifers, casuals ignore it, and people who want to try harder content feel intimidated by all the side-grinds, only people who "enjoy it" are people who have too much time on their hands and want to feel superior to other players not by improving skill, but by increasing time they spend grinding. Btw, you still do become better at main activity by spending more time on it so it's not like they'd run out of stuff to do, the more time you spent in arenas or m+ the better you become at it.

[Jastall]

This thread reads like a guy hard stuck in mid-Silver on League of Legends trying to explain the "Diamond/Challenger mentality" to his fellow hard stuck Silver players.

There is no "Mythic raider mindset," only labels you place on other people so you can feel better about the way you play the game vs. the way other people play the game. It's okay, man. I used to be like that, too. I looked down on the peons who didn't give a shit about Purple/Orange parses on WCL. I tried to help them. I'd straight up evacuate players from my groups mid-pull if they failed mechanics. I'd laugh at the angry message I'd inevitably get for being an insufferable douche. It was fun. But then... I just stopped caring. And I became the very thing I used to revile. Now, as a casual shitlord I see the game through an entirely different lens. It's still fun to pretend, but it's grossly arrogant to assume that just because somebody isn't actively trying to be a DPS/tanking/healing God that they're somehow a lesser species.

WoW is many different things to many different people. I think, ultimately, we're all looking to get the same sense of satisfaction from the game. We can all coexist without sectioning ourselves from one another.

My thoughts exactly on the bolded. Anyone who feels the need to lecture others about the "mythic raider mentality" probably isn't one, or thinks they are one because their guild carried them after everyone else got CE and they think they're hot shit. OP sounds like Shia Laboeuf in that memetic video.

And yeah, people should care as much as they want to. My guild has some people who push keys super high and grind loads AP and did RBGs for essences and all that shit. Others like me (before I took a hiatus from Mythic due to real life that is) played what we wanted, while still ensuring we had the amount of progression needed to not hold the team back but not deluding ourselves that 1 or 2% more DPS is the difference between a wipe and a kill in a top 500 environment where we reach the hard bosses post-nerf and player errors are what causes wipes, not insufficient numbers. We're not Method and I refused to play like I was in it. We still got our CEs, go figure.

[Sansnom]

You want people with the same mindset. Doesnt matter if its mythic or not.
People can understand that.
a guild wont survive long if people dont have the same mindset, sooner or later people leave and at some point not even recruitment will be enough to keep it together.

I agree. Dedicated players will see the "casuals" as lazy, not putting in the effort. On the reverse dedicated players are seen as being too serious. It is just a game.

Even in my social guild that organizes raids, there some more serious about raiding that others. So it was really great to see flex because then people can drop the odd weeks and not worry since there are sufficient people around to raid.

[shise]

False, I don't do shit, still clear mythic. Gear is not going to replace skill because what matters is consistency and not dying.
Anyone who thinks dps is most important is either from top 20 guild or is going to fail in progression as usual.

When I talk about mythic I talk about high ranking world wide, like, at least, top 100 or maybe top 200 world guild. Don´t see the point doing mythic otherwise. My opinion from my experience now in 2020, of course

[kaminaris]

When I talk about mythic I talk about high ranking world wide, like, at least, top 100 or maybe top 200 world guild. Don´t see the point doing mythic otherwise. My opinion from my experience now in 2020, of course

What are you even smoking?
Mythic is the only relevant difficulty in this game. Heroic is puggable first week so anyone looking for even a slight challenge (unless he doesn't care or is simply bad) is going for mythic. Ranks don't matter much.

[Marrilaife]

When I talk about mythic I talk about high ranking world wide, like, at least, top 100 or maybe top 200 world guild. Don´t see the point doing mythic otherwise.

Well everyone's opinion is their own. Mine is raiding mythic makes sense if you achieve cutting edge / kill end boss while current. Doesn't matter if it takes you 2 weeks or 5 months. Guess people just have different cut-off points, cuz there are people arguing that even if you kill 1 mythic boss in a pug you're therefore a "mythic raider".

[Erlking]

So...your belief is that the 'mythic raider mindset' is that WoW turns into a job, rather than a game? Because that's what your description sounds like. Why would I take on a second job that not only doesn't pay me, but has a subscription fee instead? I prefer playing WoW to have fun, not work. I'm not alone in that, am I?

Exactly this. I assume people who don't have a proper job or goal in real life tends to take wow as a job or doing well in the game as their life goal. They forget that this is a game where people are supposed to have fun.

[Rogue Karl]

Exactly this. I assume people who don't have a proper job or goal in real life tends to take wow as a job or doing well in the game as their life goal. They forget that this is a game where people are supposed to have fun.

I always assume the opposite... if you are not willing to invest time and effort into something you enjoy enough to pay to do it what does that say about aspects of your life you have to compelled to do?

I never hire people without a passion in a hobby. I care little of what the hobby is but if you lack effort in what you enjoy I assume you are going to be disastrous at what you are uninterested in.

[Erlking]

I always assume the opposite... if you are not willing to invest time and effort into something you enjoy enough to pay to do it what does that say about aspects of your life you have to compelled to do?

I never hire people without a passion in a hobby. I care little of what the hobby is but if you lack effort in what you enjoy I assume you are going to be disastrous at what you are uninterested in.

Investing time and effort is different from doing mindless chores that you don't enjoy. OP mentioned that he does a lot of things in game even though he doesn't enjoy doing them.

You are playing this game to have fun and paying for it. Things like rep grinding are just useless chores. When you go to a restaurant for dinner they don't ask you to wash the dishes first "to earn your reward".

[Rogue Karl]

Investing time and effort is different from doing mindless chores that you don't enjoy. OP mentioned that he does a lot of things in game even though he doesn't enjoy doing them.

You are playing this game to have fun and paying for it. Things like rep grinding are just useless chores. When you go to a restaurant for dinner they don't ask you to wash the dishes first "to earn your reward".

That is fair enough. I admit wow is a balancing act at end game if you enjoy harder content