Ideological subversion-Yuri Bezmenov (1984)

[Jeb007]

Hello friends, today I am interested in your opinion on the following video (and perhaps the associated lecture, but that's longer)



Now, while I allow for this to be a complete disinformation campaign KGB style, together with the fake defector, or he is just bs-ing trying to justify his comfy status as a KGB defector in the US) there's a couple of interesting observations:
-phrase "social warrior" in 1984 (FSB should put a © mark on it lol)
-you can provide evidence but they won't listen (this one maybe hits too close to home right about now eh???)
-US education system is completely tilted to the left, just what it would require to be for "steady brainwashing done over a generation"
-Socialism as a valid way forward in the US

Thank you for your contributions.

[Mihalik]

Bezmenov's somewhat inconsistent and poorly defined conspiracy theories have been misunderstood and used by everyone on both sides of the political isle.

The reason why Bezmenov's writings have mostly stayed on the fringes of public discourse is because it was mostly inconsistent drivel that barely held up to even cursory examination.

He based his conspiracy theories on actual real life Russian psychological warfare techniques, but then put his own ideological spin on it based on his own personal politics.

He was convinced that the KBG has already fully implemented Marxist-Leninism based ideological demoralization on the 1980s Boomers.

This while the country was leaning increasingly right.

Much better work has been done on understanding Russian information warfare, and almost all of it seems to show that the favored ideological tool of the Russians to use against the US is extreme right wing politics.

[Jeb007]

Bezmenov's somewhat inconsistent and poorly defined conspiracy theories have been misunderstood and used by everyone on both sides of the political isle.

The reason why Bezmenov's writings have mostly stayed on the fringes of public discourse is because it was mostly inconsistent drivel that barely held up to even cursory examination.

He based his conspiracy theories on actual real life Russian psychological warfare techniques, but then put his own ideological spin on it based on his own personal politics.

He was convinced that the KBG has already fully implemented Marxist-Leninism based ideological demoralization on the 1980s Boomers.

This while the country was leaning increasingly right.

Much better work has been done on understanding Russian information warfare, and almost all of it seems to show that the favored ideological tool of the Russians to use against the US is extreme right wing politics.

In regards to this matter, who knows what happened and if what happened had anything to do with KGB, but it would be nice to know if his breakdown of the agency's expenditure really was 15% for intelligence/counterintelligence and the remaining 85 spent on experimental programmes of different kinds.

If you forget what we are talking about here.....do you find the current state of America in the following paragraph or in at least some of it's segments?

"Stage One: Demoralization – Elimination of American Exceptionalism, fundamental change of national identity, structural deconstruction of foundational principles, elimination of religion. Embedding a new societal design upon the psyche of generations through ideological academia. Peer pressure by elites upon academics and society to convince that prior values were inherently flawed, racist, prejudiced etc. National identity is diluted with aspersions toward historical references. National history is re-written, re-defined, and molded to fit the new intended behavioral model and create the new values."

[Mihalik]

In regards to this matter, who knows what happened and if what happened had anything to do with KGB, but it would be nice to know if his breakdown of the agency's expenditure really was 15% for intelligence/counterintelligence and the remaining 85 spent on experimental programmes of different kinds.

If you forget what we are talking about here.....do you find the current state of America in the following paragraph or in at least some of it's segments?

"Stage One: Demoralization – Elimination of American Exceptionalism, fundamental change of national identity, structural deconstruction of foundational principles, elimination of religion. Embedding a new societal design upon the psyche of generations through ideological academia. Peer pressure by elites upon academics and society to convince that prior values were inherently flawed, racist, prejudiced etc. National identity is diluted with aspersions toward historical references. National history is re-written, re-defined, and molded to fit the new intended behavioral model and create the new values."

His interpretation of "American values" is the standard right wing conservative drivel.

Essentially everything from desegregation to women's suffrage is KGB demoralization.

It's fucking drivel. It's "This doesn't align with my ultraconservative right wing politics, thus KGB."

Arguably most of the changes on his list made America better, not worse, stronger not weaker.

It's not a question of me agreeing or disagreeing with his drivel... It's that it is a pointless drivel.

[derpkitteh]

well, just take a look around today.

the large majority of my generation hold communist or socialist views. colleges routinely pump out this type of person, most of the professors are the same way.

i think he was off on his timing a bit, but that's the only place he was wrong. they planted the cancerous ideology in our education system, and it's festered since then. now it has grown to the point that it's effecting society(people like AOC being elected, bernie sanders, the entire shift of the democrat party). just about every other western nation has criminalized not denying basic reality, this is on its way here now.

this is why free speech shouldn't apply to things like communism. when you allow such a incompatible thing to root itself, it's very hard to burn out those roots entirely. i would take a severe shift in the average american to allow for what needs to be done, so i think its victory is inevitable. only in the collapse after its victory may we see some semblance of a return to free society. but we'll probably spend quite a while in a dark age before that happens. i'm glad i won't live to see it, but i'm sad for those that will.

[Calfredd]

well, just take a look around today.

the large majority of my generation hold communist or socialist views. colleges routinely pump out this type of person, most of the professors are the same way.

i think he was off on his timing a bit, but that's the only place he was wrong. they planted the cancerous ideology in our education system, and it's festered since then. now it has grown to the point that it's effecting society(people like AOC being elected, bernie sanders, the entire shift of the democrat party). just about every other western nation has criminalized not denying basic reality, this is on its way here now.

this is why free speech shouldn't apply to things like communism. when you allow such a incompatible thing to root itself, it's very hard to burn out those roots entirely. i would take a severe shift in the average american to allow for what needs to be done, so i think its victory is inevitable. only in the collapse after its victory may we see some semblance of a return to free society. but we'll probably spend quite a while in a dark age before that happens. i'm glad i won't live to see it, but i'm sad for those that will.

You and Kokolums, I swear.

[Sorshen]

well, just take a look around today.

the large majority of my generation hold communist or socialist views. colleges routinely pump out this type of person, most of the professors are the same way.

i think he was off on his timing a bit, but that's the only place he was wrong. they planted the cancerous ideology in our education system, and it's festered since then. now it has grown to the point that it's effecting society(people like AOC being elected, bernie sanders, the entire shift of the democrat party). just about every other western nation has criminalized not denying basic reality, this is on its way here now.

this is why free speech shouldn't apply to things like communism. when you allow such a incompatible thing to root itself, it's very hard to burn out those roots entirely. i would take a severe shift in the average american to allow for what needs to be done, so i think its victory is inevitable. only in the collapse after its victory may we see some semblance of a return to free society. but we'll probably spend quite a while in a dark age before that happens. i'm glad i won't live to see it, but i'm sad for those that will.

You say you're for free speech, the Constitution and whatnot... and then you say shit like this. How do you manage to come off as uneducated as the average screamer at a Trump rally or the right wing conspiracy theorists on this forum with every post? AOC and Bernie are not bringing communism. Europe mostly runs on similar programs and it has more freedom than your 'land of the free' that still has the Patriot act. Get some political/social education.

[Noxx79]

well, just take a look around today.

the large majority of my generation hold communist or socialist views. colleges routinely pump out this type of person, most of the professors are the same way.

i think he was off on his timing a bit, but that's the only place he was wrong. they planted the cancerous ideology in our education system, and it's festered since then. now it has grown to the point that it's effecting society(people like AOC being elected, bernie sanders, the entire shift of the democrat party). just about every other western nation has criminalized not denying basic reality, this is on its way here now.

this is why free speech shouldn't apply to things like communism. when you allow such a incompatible thing to root itself, it's very hard to burn out those roots entirely. i would take a severe shift in the average american to allow for what needs to be done, so i think its victory is inevitable. only in the collapse after its victory may we see some semblance of a return to free society. but we'll probably spend quite a while in a dark age before that happens. i'm glad i won't live to see it, but i'm sad for those that will.

Nice to know you hate the constitution.

[Inuyaki]

You say you're for free speech, the Constitution and whatnot... and then you say shit like this. How do you manage to come off as uneducated as the average screamer at a Trump rally or the right wing conspiracy theorists on this forum with every post? AOC and Bernie are not bringing communism. Europe mostly runs on similar programs and it has more freedom than your 'land of the free' that still has the Patriot act. Get some political/social education.

Thanks, exactly my thoughts.

[derpkitteh]

You say you're for free speech, the Constitution and whatnot... and then you say shit like this. How do you manage to come off as uneducated as the average screamer at a Trump rally or the right wing conspiracy theorists on this forum with every post? AOC and Bernie are not bringing communism. Europe mostly runs on similar programs and it has more freedom than your 'land of the free' that still has the Patriot act. Get some political/social education.

there has to be a cut off somewhere.

communism is antithetical to everything america is. the founding fathers would have written this exception their selves, had it existed during their time. the ideal nation lets its people be as free as possible, while maintaining their safety from threats within and without. ideological subversion is the the threat hardest to deal with, but it needs to be dealt with, or all other threats will eventually take advantage of your weak and subverted country.

[Noxx79]

there has to be a cut off somewhere.

communism is antithetical to everything america is. the founding fathers would have written this exception their selves, had it existed during their time. the ideal nation lets its people be as free as possible, while maintaining their safety from threats within and without. ideological subversion is the the threat hardest to deal with, but it needs to be dealt with, or all other threats will eventually take advantage of your weak and subverted country.

Now do the second amendment, hypocrite.

[derpkitteh]

Now do the second amendment, hypocrite.

guns aren't antithetical to our entire ideological makeup. it's not comparable.

[Sorshen]

there has to be a cut off somewhere.

communism is antithetical to everything america is. the founding fathers would have written this exception their selves, had it existed during their time. the ideal nation lets its people be as free as possible, while maintaining their safety from threats within and without. ideological subversion is the the threat hardest to deal with, but it needs to be dealt with, or all other threats will eventually take advantage of your weak and subverted country.

How is that safety from threats within working these days, huh? Considering one man gets unchecked power (to retaliate against law abiding officers) from his cronies and runs the economy like his failed businesses? Is this 'freedom' the freedom to die from preventable/treatable health issues while the billionaires and corporations get to lobby socialism for themselves? Is this freedom to have the news industry owned and directed by the billionaires in order to constantly attack reform attempts? Is this freedom to have the government assassinate foreign state members, breaking international law? How about having the GRU target the elections and social media in order to manipulate the voters, that freedom as well? How will your beloved 2A help you here?

[derpkitteh]

How is that safety from threats within working these days, huh? Considering one man gets unchecked power (to retaliate against law abiding officers) from his cronies and runs the economy like his failed businesses? Is this 'freedom' the freedom to die from preventable/treatable health issues while the billionaires and corporations get to lobby socialism for themselves? Is this freedom to have the news industry owned and directed by the billionaires in order to constantly attack reform attempts? Is this freedom to have the government assassinate foreign state members, breaking international law? How about having the GRU target the elections and social media in order to manipulate the voters, that freedom as well? How will your beloved 2A help you here?

those things are unrelated to what's being talked about right now. you don't know my stances on them, and this isn't really the right thread to state them.

i'll guarantee you probably wouldn't agree with me on some of them, but others you actually might.

[Noxx79]

guns aren't antithetical to our entire ideological makeup. it's not comparable.

It absolutely is, hypocrite. An anti-American such as yourself wouldn’t understand. You can’t handwave the constitution because you’re a coward who can’t sleep without sucking on a rifle.

Free speech is a core of America. Being able ton criticize the government is core to America. Calling it antithetical only shows ignorant and hypocritical you are.

- - - Updated - - -

those things are unrelated to what's being talked about right now. you don't know my stances on them, and this isn't really the right thread to state them.

i'll guarantee you probably wouldn't agree with me on some of them, but others you actually might.

When you bring up destroying the constitution, then you get to have your words used against you. It is now part of the conversation. Just because you’re unable to defend your views, doesn’t mean you get to run away like a coward.

[derpkitteh]

It absolutely is, hypocrite. An anti-American such as yourself wouldn’t understand. You can’t handwave the constitution because you’re a coward who can’t sleep without sucking on a rifle.

Free speech is a core of America. Being able ton criticize the government is core to America. Calling it antithetical only shows ignorant and hypocritical you are.

- - - Updated - - -



When you bring up destroying the constitution, then you get to have your words used against you. It is now part of the conversation. Just because you’re unable to defend your views, doesn’t mean you get to run away like a coward.

what are you even talking about? communism isn't questioning the government, it's purely antithetical to the entire american way of life. questioning the government is a good thing.

and no, guns aren't... guns are an essential part of american life. taking guns is every bit as antithetical as communism.

if you want my personal opinions on unrelated things, you can pm me. this isn't the thread for it.

[Sorshen]

Labeling things you don't understand as 'communism' really isn't helping your point. Again, political education.

[Mihalik]

sip

"I'm American. I hate peanut butter because it is made out of kittens. Thus peanut butter is un-American and should be banned."

This, is literally your arguments. You throw out words you don't understand a couple of falsehoods and base logically faulty arguments on them.

Also. Capitalize your mother fucking sentences for fuck sake!

[Theodarzna]

The erosion of 'nationalist values' is pretty common and to be expected when you laud freedom as the most important and principal value.

After all borders are anti-freedom of people, goods and movement. They are even anti-capitalist.

One of the best comments ever posted here.

[Jeb007]

His interpretation of "American values" is the standard right wing conservative drivel.

Essentially everything from desegregation to women's suffrage is KGB demoralization.

It's fucking drivel. It's "This doesn't align with my ultraconservative right wing politics, thus KGB."

Arguably most of the changes on his list made America better, not worse, stronger not weaker.

It's not a question of me agreeing or disagreeing with his drivel... It's that it is a pointless drivel.

I suppose I understand your arguments.....something about" it can't be this because things he mentions made America stronger" and "timeline doesn't fit: in the 80's the country turned to the right".

On the face of it, valid arguments, but for the first one.....the things that made it stronger are now tearing it apart, straight down the middle.....and the second one could easily come out like it did (emergence of Republican gov) as a natural consequence of the US establishment to repel the threat.
In the video he does say a time, indicating they started after second war....which was in America followed by McCarthyism, the red scare. (during Rep.gov.).... it's quite possible it started even earlier if one just remembers how the USSR got its nuclear technology, from whom....academics, precisely the class the alleged programme targeted.

Of course this is all conjecture, but your dismissal of the theory is curious, if one then thinks that one of the top 3 (possibly 2?) contenders for the 2020 presidency is an awoved socialist and that such a thing was largely unthinkable not even two decades ago.

That's why I thought it might have been an interesting debate.