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  1. #281
    The Lightbringer Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberglum View Post
    Give up mate, they'll just continue to call you racist and a bigot to make themselves feel better.
    True...it's pointless, I mean these are the same guys who defended last star wars trilogy, it's an ideological battle for them, if something is done good or bad, they'll always claim it's good..

  2. #282
    Is this a comedy bit you guys are doing? I'm laughing either way.

  3. #283
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    True...it's pointless, I mean these are the same guys who defended last star wars trilogy, it's an ideological battle for them, if something is done good or bad, they'll always claim it's good..
    Yeah, we're the ones fighting the "ideological battle", not the ones pushing a race-based agenda. Sure, Jan.


  4. #284
    I am Murloc! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Gotta admit, couldn't go through the comics with it's abundance of text and older art style. But looking forward to this show.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  5. #285
    Netflix’s The Sandman Series Is ‘All About Surprising You’, Says Neil Gaiman – Exclusive Image


    For decades, Neil Gaiman’s The Sandman has been considered a towering achievement in the world of graphic fiction – a fantastical epic so imaginative and broad in scope that the prospect of bringing it to the screen seemed near-impossible. Enter Netflix, which has taken on an adaptation of a comic book series like no other – a metaphysical, philosophical exploration of dreams, romance, life and death – with Gaiman on board as a developer to help shepherd it to the screen faithfully. And part of that faithfulness is conjuring a show that shape-shifts from instalment to instalment.

    In the upcoming Moon Knight issue of Empire, Gaiman opened up about the genre-hopping, tone-switching approach of The Sandman on screen. “You watch Episode 1 and think, ‘Oh, I get this thing: it’s like Downton Abbey, but with magic,’” he says. “Then you’ll be wondering, ‘What the hell is this?’ by Episode 2, when you’re meeting Gregory The Gargoyle in The Dreaming. Episode 5 is about as dark and traumatic as anything is ever gonna get, then you’ve got Episode 6, which is probably the most feel-good of all the episodes.” It’s a notion that looks set to differentiate The Sandman from all the other lavish fantasy adaptations out there. “If you didn’t like an episode of Game Of Thrones, you probably won’t like any other episode of Game Of Thrones,” reasons Gaiman. “With Sandman, it’s all about surprising you. It’s all about reinventing itself. It’s all about taking you on a journey you’ve not been on before.”

    As seen in the issue, here’s an exclusive image of Tom Sturridge in the central role of Dream (aka Morpheus), pictured alongside the librarian Lucienne, played by Vivienne Acheampong.

    The sprawling cast of The Sandman also includes Gwendoline Christie as Lucifer, Boyd Holbrook as The Corinthian, Charles Dance as Roderick Burgess, Asim Chaudry and Sanjeev Bhaskar as Abel and Cain, Kirby Howell-Baptiste as Death, and Stephen Fry as Gilbert – just a few names from a considerable ensemble. The series is due to arrive on Netflix later this year.
    They could have given them a better image to work with, it isn't the greatest quality lol

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yeah, we're the ones fighting the "ideological battle", not the ones pushing a race-based agenda. Sure, Jan.
    It's amazing how strong of projection those folks do. The only things they are capable of talking about are race, gender, etc. and then they accuse everyone else of being hung up on those things.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And your position on her "iconic look" starts and ends, for you, with the question "is she white enough?"

    You don't care about her costuming.
    You don't care about the actress' capability to express the character.
    You don't care about the writing.

    You care whether she's "white enough" for you.
    People care that character look like they are shown in books/comics. Sometimes the actor is good enough to overcome that but sometimes a mediocre actor can still fit the role because they just look right. Lucifer is a great casting despite not being blond as an example. Who knows Death could be a great casting but stop just screaming racism because people want the appearances to match the comics the same people probably complained about white washing The Major and The Ancient One I certainly did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yeah, we're the ones fighting the "ideological battle", not the ones pushing a race-based agenda. Sure, Jan.
    If you legitimately defended the trash heap that was the sequels I can only assume you did so for political based reasons.

  8. #288
    If Gaiman is okay with the actors/actresses, then I don't think the fans have much right to complain.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    If Gaiman is okay with the actors/actresses, then I don't think the fans have much right to complain.
    You're right.

    Not that that's gonna stop them from complaining anyway

  10. #290
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    People care that character look like they are shown in books/comics. Sometimes the actor is good enough to overcome that but sometimes a mediocre actor can still fit the role because they just look right. Lucifer is a great casting despite not being blond as an example. Who knows Death could be a great casting but stop just screaming racism because people want the appearances to match the comics the same people probably complained about white washing The Major and The Ancient One I certainly did.
    So, matching the comics, like, say, this?



    Cause that's Death, of the Endless, in The Dreaming: Waking Hours. And she's black in that incarnation.



    Also, that the guy on the left here is Dream. And not a different person wearing the mantle; we know that Morpheus held the mantle from the beginnings of time until he chose to die and the mantle went to Daniel Hall. The Endless aren't people. They're incarnations of concepts. Their appearance is entirely malleable, and often seems dependent on whoever's present to see them.

    All stuff people who are fans of the comics should be aware of.

    At the time the backlash was going out (you folks are quoting me from 2021), literally all we knew was the actress cast. Not how her performance was, not her costuming, just the casting decision. So yeah; the backlash was entirely about race. And how she could portray a timeless incarnation of a concept that is not a person and predates humanity itself, predates life itself, and whose appearance is as malleable as she wants it to be.


  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    So, matching the comics, like, say, this?



    Cause that's Death, of the Endless, in The Dreaming: Waking Hours. And she's black in that incarnation.



    Also, that the guy on the left here is Dream. And not a different person wearing the mantle; we know that Morpheus held the mantle from the beginnings of time until he chose to die and the mantle went to Daniel Hall. The Endless aren't people. They're incarnations of concepts. Their appearance is entirely malleable, and often seems dependent on whoever's present to see them.

    All stuff people who are fans of the comics should be aware of.

    At the time the backlash was going out (you folks are quoting me from 2021), literally all we knew was the actress cast. Not how her performance was, not her costuming, just the casting decision. So yeah; the backlash was entirely about race. And how she could portray a timeless incarnation of a concept that is not a person and predates humanity itself, predates life itself, and whose appearance is as malleable as she wants it to be.
    You very well know that her most well known incarnation is what people are talking about. It would be interesting if they did have her change between multiple actresses throughout the show but I doubt they do that. Search Death Sandman and 90% of the page is the super pale almost ethereal version.

  12. #292
    Over 9000! Kathranis's Avatar
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    I wonder how these chuds are going to react to Desire, or A Game of You, if they get to that story arc.

    Posting these cringe antiwoke takes about Gaiman material of all things is almost beyond parody. The stuff he was writing 30 years ago was more socially aware than a lot of the stuff being made now. Frankly, I'm doubtful they are fans of the work to begin with, because they'd have to intentionally be missing the point of most of his stuff to have these opinions in the first place.

    The Endless aren't even Caucasian white, their skin is a ghostly, inhumanely, otherworldly white, with a hint of blue mixed in. To the extent that if I were to adapt their "true" forms in live action I'd probably make their skin translucent and emit light.

    But as formless beings, they often shapeshift into whatever the viewer's conception of them would be. Death in particular constantly changes her appearance to comfort the souls she's guiding to the afterlife. There's a whole recurring story arc where Death and Dream are depicted as cats.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2022-02-17 at 04:31 AM.

  13. #293
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You very well know that her most well known incarnation is what people are talking about. It would be interesting if they did have her change between multiple actresses throughout the show but I doubt they do that. Search Death Sandman and 90% of the page is the super pale almost ethereal version.
    Canon is canon though, regardless of what is "most popular" - if they're going with an established character design there's no reasonable argument to make against it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I wonder how these chuds are going to react to Desire, or A Game of You, if they get to that story arc.

    Posting these cringe antiwoke takes about Gaiman material of all things is almost beyond parody. The stuff he was writing 30 years ago was more socially aware than a lot of the stuff being made now. Frankly, I'm doubtful they are fans of the work to begin with, because they'd have to intentionally be missing the point of most of his stuff to have these opinions in the first place.

    The Endless aren't even Caucasian white, their skin is a ghostly, inhumanely, otherworldly white, with a hint of blue mixed in. To the extent that if I were to adapt their "true" forms in live action I'd probably make their skin translucent and emit light.

    But as formless beings, they often shapeshift into whatever the viewer's conception of them would be. Death in particular constantly changes her appearance to comfort the souls she's guiding to the afterlife. There's a whole recurring story arc where Death and Dream are depicted as cats.
    Like I said it would be very cool if they had multiple actresses playing her but I doubt that will happen. I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another on this particular casting my issue is more with endus instantly jumping down throats when people don't like changes from what is perceived as the most common appearance.

  15. #295
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You very well know that her most well known incarnation is what people are talking about.
    And? I don't care.

    They don't have a valid point of view that doesn't boil down to "angry that a genderless, raceless, speciesless character is being played by a black woman".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    my issue is more with endus instantly jumping down throats when people don't like changes from what is perceived as the most common appearance.
    Yes, how dare I point out what their argument actually boils down to and leave it hanging there where it comes off really badly.

    That's kinda not on me.


  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And? I don't care.

    They don't have a valid point of view that doesn't boil down to "angry that a genderless, raceless, speciesless character is being played by a black woman".

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, how dare I point out what their argument actually boils down to and leave it hanging there where it comes off really badly.

    That's kinda not on me.
    Except it doesn't and you know this. You literally only defend stuff pushing politics you agree with. You would be spiting fire if the next black panther was made white.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You would be spiting fire if the next black panther was made white.
    Or just spitting fire at a false equivocation like this. Race isn't RELEVANT to the Endless; it very much IS relevant to the Black Panther character.

    If the entire character was written to be about being white, it'd be different; but it's not. Race is not only a purely cosmetic detail here, it's actually CANONICALLY irrelevant (as pointed out above). Whereas with someone like Black Panther it is neither purely cosmetic nor canonically irrelevant, but a fundamental part of the both the character's diegetic history and its design conception.

  18. #298
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Except it doesn't and you know this. You literally only defend stuff pushing politics you agree with. You would be spiting fire if the next black panther was made white.
    I have to wonder why you people who use black panther as an example don’t grab a different character? Like why not use blade or another back hero who isn’t literally all about being black?

    Not being able to see the different between a character built all around there race and one where it’s never actually relevant doesn’t make a good point it just makes you look stupid every time you do it.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I have to wonder why you people who use black panther as an example don’t grab a different character? Like why not use blade or another back hero who isn’t literally all about being black?
    To be fair to them, they don't have many to choose from when it comes to that. And Black Panther is the most relevant one at the moment. Which, you think, might give them pause to reconsider their dumbass position, but it never does.

  20. #300
    Nick Fury was white for the longest time, then was made black in the comics almost seemingly in SLJ's image, and then SLJ ended up playing him in the movies. I, for one, could not give a shit if they had cast Nick Fury as a white guy.

    The people who always complain about this always bring out the same old, trope-y "What ifs:" A white man playing MLK, or a white man playing Black Panther. These are characters where race is integral to their identity. I'd have similar problems if a black man was portraying Hitler, for whom race was a defining characteristic of what he believed and the actions he took - if that portrayal was meant to be a historically accurate one. Or if a white man was portraying Charles Taylor, the Liberian dictator. However, we've seen even in shows like Hamilton that portraying historical figures with actors of different races can shed new perspective and provoke more stories, if done correctly. Hamilton doesn't pretend to be a historical musical - and thus it works.

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