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  1. #101
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Yeah, I agree. I'm just saying...those kind of complaints are reasonable...because they have to do with the actors perceived ability to carry the role in which they were cast and not just that their skin tone doesn't match.
    Yeah, I mostly just wanted to present my own take just to provide a contrast against the rest of my posts, to indicate that maybe the difference is about the character of the argument I'm responding to.


  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    That Death's paleness has nothing to do with her being the aspect of death? It doesn't. All the Endless have the same skin tone. From Destiny all the way down to Delirium. There is nothing special about Death's skin tone.
    Does that even MATTER though. I'd wager it was an aesthetic decision given the medium (graphic novel) more than anything, and in a different medium different aesthetic decisions are 100% justified and totally fine. Unless there's some serious story element tied into the fact that they share a skin tone - and to my knowledge there isn't, not even close - it's just not relevant.

    Nobody would complain about people's eye color or whatever either, even if it was different from the source material (unless, again, there's some serious story reason). But somehow skin color changes everything? Please.

    I'm more worried about the story being represented well, I couldn't give two fucks about how the actors look. All I care about is can they act, and are they given good material to act with.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post

    we all know what picture in the head we get if we hear the word "goth teen girl" AND the whole goth/metal/punk followers are honored, that PAID FOR gaiman's career. I'm supposed to smile when being shown the middle finger?
    Once again, if the only thing about Death that you think matters is that she was White (Not caucasian but WHITE) then yeah...you can have that middle finger.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Does that even MATTER though. I'd wager it was an aesthetic decision given the medium (graphic novel) more than anything, and in a different medium different aesthetic decisions are 100% justified and totally fine. Unless there's some serious story element tied into the fact that they share a skin tone - and to my knowledge there isn't, not even close - it's just not relevant.
    No, it's not relevant at all what their skin tone is. It's not even relevant that their skin tone matches with each other. They aren't human. Their skin tone is not human.

    They are Aspects taking on a human-like appearance.

  4. #104
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Does that even MATTER though. I'd wager it was an aesthetic decision given the medium (graphic novel) more than anything, and in a different medium different aesthetic decisions are 100% justified and totally fine. Unless there's some serious story element tied into the fact that they share a skin tone - and to my knowledge there isn't, not even close - it's just not relevant.

    Nobody would complain about people's eye color or whatever either, even if it was different from the source material (unless, again, there's some serious story reason). But somehow skin color changes everything? Please.
    And as I linked above, the comic is pretty explicit that the pale skin is just a current-era affectation by the Endless which doesn't have much basis, and, indeed, could even be argued to be the result of the author/artist's perception shaping their appearance, as their appearance is often shaped differently in flashbacks to other eras, as with Morpheus/Kaickul. The show's a new framing, so a new perspective shift really just . . . makes legitimate sense. There was never anything about the pale skin that was necessary or fundamental to the Endless, as can be seen in various other appearances they present as are present throughout. Desire and Dream are mutable in different ways, directly, but Dream himself has a bunch of different looks throughout the series, in flashbacks or from non-human perspectives.

    I'm more worried about the story being represented well, I couldn't give two fucks about how the actors look. All I care about is can they act, and are they given good material to act with.
    My concerns are much the same; a lot of Sandman is HIGHLY philosophical and in a "no easy/definitive answers" kind of sense. The Good Place did a lot to bring complex philosophy forward, but it had to do so REALLY carefully. Even Morpheus' own cycle of death, grief, and rebirth is . . . not simple, since he is fundamentally not the Morpheus who died, but also fundamentally is the Morpheus who has always been. Both, at the same time. Without that being a contradiction. It plays with concepts of self and identity and continuity that are pretty heady stuff.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-06-01 at 08:44 PM.


  5. #105
    Banned Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Despair an obese character, is being played by an obese actress. Makes sense.

    Death, a thin character (because we associate death with the grim reaper, is played by...an obese actress.

    They did say the show should take part in current age, n well many people are def fatter than in the 80s, n incr mortality to covid-19.
    Yet in gaiman's defense of casting choices he now claims he isn't abandoning the books, which is contradictory.

    While he is at it, he should re-make the comics as well. Just make death n despair the same character n take despairs persona on some of the other endless.

    I think gaiman should keep redoing things, even this show, there's no reason to respect fans, he knows what's best n stuff.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Despair an obese character, is being played by an obese actress. Makes sense.

    Death, a thin character (because we associate death with the grim reaper, is played by...an obese actress.

    They did say the show should take part in current age, n well many people are def fatter than in the 80s, n incr mortality to covid-19.
    Yet in gaiman's defense of casting choices he now claims he isn't abandoning the books, which is contradictory.

    While he is at it, he should re-make the comics as well. Just make death n despair the same character n take despairs persona on some of the other endless.

    I think gaiman should keep redoing things, even this show, there's no reason to respect fans, he knows what's best n stuff.
    Wait. What? Are you suggesting that Kirby Howell-Baptiste is obese?
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  7. #107
    Banned Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Wait. What? Are you suggesting that Kirby Howell-Baptiste is obese?
    She definetely isn't looking like a half anoretic teen. Too much baby fat.
    Ofc could do something about her hair, that's the easy part. It makes her look even fatter. Too puffy.

    If I died cuz i got fat n met an obese Death standing in front of me, i'd demand to see the manager. I'd even threaten to sue.

    fer sure

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    She definetely isn't looking like a half anoretic teen. Too much baby fat.
    Ofc could do something about her hair, that's the easy part. It makes her look even fatter. Too puffy.

    If I died cuz i got fat n met an obese Death standing in front of me, i'd demand to see the manager. I'd even threaten to sue.

    fer sure
    She's in no way obese or even fat. She's not overweight at all.

    And what "baby fat" are you even talking about?

    Last edited by Winter Blossom; 2021-06-02 at 01:12 PM.
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    She definetely isn't looking like a half anoretic teen. Too much baby fat.
    Ofc could do something about her hair, that's the easy part. It makes her look even fatter. Too puffy.

    If I died cuz i got fat n met an obese Death standing in front of me, i'd demand to see the manager. I'd even threaten to sue.

    fer sure
    Ok, a few of your earlier points were actually valid to an extent but calling Kirby Howell Baptiste obese.... I m starting to think that you are either:

    1.) trolling

    2.) trying to intentionally trigger pepegas like Endus who feel like its their solemn duty to white-knight every social issue in existence.

    Flaming isn't allowed. Infracted.
    Last edited by Faltemer; 2021-06-02 at 03:19 PM.

  10. #110
    Banned Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    Ok, a few of your earlier points were actually valid to an extent but calling Kirby Howell Baptiste obese.... I m starting to think that you are either:

    1.) trolling

    2.) trying to intentionally trigger pepegas like Endus who feel like its their solemn duty to white-knight every social issue in existence.
    Nope, im serious, otherwise id hang out in the game of thrones thread n spar with cubby about season 8 (seriously don't visit that thread)

    This is from 1st page
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    He needs to loose lots of weight, dream needs to look very gaunt i thinks..
    I got a bad feeling for this show as soon as I saw the lead from the predator..to be the Corinthian...this is a sin of the worst degree..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Nj_wUb6Sw

    Now...I only hope to see a good performance from charles dance n gwendolyn christie, I no longer care about the others..I have no hope for this show.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    She's in no way obese or even fat. She's not overweight at all.

    And what "baby fat" are you even talking about?

    https://i.imgur.com/OAMckSyl.jpg
    Look at her cheeks, does she look like is someone that takes exercise or diet seriously? Look at her hips, chubby, like most people..
    Looks like an average mom.

    Not a teen. Not thin. This character needs to at least look haunted in some way, death in the comic wasn't a random look. You need character to look as if she has recently died or something, instead this person looks like a content soccer mom.

    Any universe must follow some logic n not just throw random stuff together.

    I wouldn't like to be told by a chubby death after i die,

    Death: "you ate too much, now ur ded, u can't be here"

    Me: "dafuq, then neither should u, u fat too, how do these rules work? What kind of operation are u people running here, where are our taxes, I mean our Anima going? No patch could fix this clusterfuck?"
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2021-06-02 at 03:14 PM.

  11. #111
    I don't know why everyone cares about Death being super far off model. You need to stop caring, and just say to yourself "this is a pretty strong sign that the show will be trash and I'm not going to bother watching it".

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    I don't know why everyone cares about Death being super far off model. You need to stop caring, and just say to yourself "this is a pretty strong sign that the show will be trash and I'm not going to bother watching it".
    Nah, didn't you know? Since the invention of social media it has become everbody's sworn duty to share ALL of their opinions/feelings about literally everything.

    Ya know, because we all care.

  13. #113
    Got infracted for calling Endus "pepega". I see losing mod status has changed nothing except the time it takes for the unfair infraction.

    Discussing Moderation isn't allowed. Infracted.
    Last edited by Faltemer; 2021-06-02 at 03:38 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Look at her cheeks, does she look like is someone that takes exercise or diet seriously? Look at her hips, chubby, like most people..
    Looks like an average mom.

    Not a teen. Not thin. This character needs to at least look haunted in some way, death in the comic wasn't a random look. You need character to look as if she has recently died or something, instead this person looks like a content soccer mom.

    Any universe must follow some logic n not just throw random stuff together.

    I wouldn't like to be told by a chubby death after i die,

    Death: "you ate too much, now ur ded, u can't be here"

    Me: "dafuq, then neither should u, u fat too, how do these rules work? What kind of operation are u people running here, where are our taxes, I mean our Anima going? No patch could fix this clusterfuck?"
    You have a very skewed, unhealthy view on women’s bodies.
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Look at her cheeks, does she look like is someone that takes exercise or diet seriously? Look at her hips, chubby, like most people..
    Looks like an average mom.

    Not a teen. Not thin. This character needs to at least look haunted in some way, death in the comic wasn't a random look. You need character to look as if she has recently died or something, instead this person looks like a content soccer mom.

    Any universe must follow some logic n not just throw random stuff together.
    Wow. Another point for "Actor doesn't match the proportions of a comic book character"

    Once again I find myself drawn to the Hugh Jackman as Wolverine comparison. Wolverine, in the comics, is 5'2 and stocky. Hugh Jackman is 6'3 and lean. Did the X-Men movies suck because Wolverine was "poorly cast"?

    I wouldn't like to be told by a chubby death after i die,

    Death: "you ate too much, now ur ded, u can't be here"

    Me: "dafuq, then neither should u, u fat too, how do these rules work? What kind of operation are u people running here, where are our taxes, I mean our Anima going? No patch could fix this clusterfuck?"
    Would you like to be told that "you didn't eat good enough, now ur ded, u can't be here" by a girl that looks like she barfs up every single meal?

    Also, Death would never say anything like that. Death is kind. She won't antagonize you over how you died. She will help you transition to your next life with grace and dignity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    Got infracted for calling Endus "pepega". I see losing mod status has changed nothing except the time it takes for the unfair infraction.
    Don't call anyone a "retard" (even if it's in internet slang) and you won't have that issue.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Wow. Another point for "Actor doesn't match the proportions of a comic book character"

    Once again I find myself drawn to the Hugh Jackman as Wolverine comparison. Wolverine, in the comics, is 5'2 and stocky. Hugh Jackman is 6'3 and lean. Did the X-Men movies suck because Wolverine was "poorly cast"?



    Would you like to be told that "you didn't eat good enough, now ur ded, u can't be here" by a girl that looks like she barfs up every single meal?

    Also, Death would never say anything like that. Death is kind. She won't antagonize you over how you died. She will help you transition to your next life with grace and dignity.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Don't call anyone a "retard" (even if it's in internet slang) and you won't have that issue.
    Except as you saw it wasnt even the "pepega" that cause the issue of the infraction but its honestly w.e.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    Except as you saw it wasnt even the "pepega" that cause the issue of the infraction but its honestly w.e.
    Discussing moderation was for the second infraction.

    Flaming was the first.

  18. #118
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Most people know the character as a pale white woman, but white "painted" not rly normal caucasian, at least i and many others did, obviously, seizing the part where it can assume any form, instead of making something people are familiarized, he prefer to cause this kind of commotion that give him media plus shield the show from critics, it is a strategy rly common those days.


    but then again, i have little contact with Gaiman work, i am more worried about it being a netflix thing
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-06-04 at 11:39 PM.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Most people know the character as a pale white woman, but white "painted" not rly normal caucasian, at least i and many others did, obviously, seizing the part where it can assume any form, instead of making something people are familiarized, he prefer to cause this kind of commotion that give him media plus shield the show from critics, it is a strategy rly common those days.
    Or maybe he preferred to cast the person he thought was best for the role.

  20. #120
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Or maybe he preferred to cast the person he thought was best for the role.
    sure, *wink wink*

    But like i said, i could care less, my only "fear" is being made by netflix, they are too much a hit or miss

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