[TV] Neil Gaiman's The Sandman

[jonnysensible]

I care about the books! And they better do a good fucking job on the TV show!

Or I might pause my Netflix account slightly longer than last time I paused it!

i think i listened to about 20 minutes of the audio book and fell asleep and gave up. They were summoning some dude or whatever. I bet this gets canned faster than american gods.

[Egomaniac]

i think i listened to about 20 minutes of the audio book and fell asleep and gave up. They were summoning some dude or whatever. I bet this gets canned faster than american gods.

American Gods lasted for 3 seasons... that's more than most shows get.

[qwerty123456]

Out of curiosity...did you rage this much when this guy:



was cast as this guy:

Alot of people complained about Lucifer not being blonde......

[Ivanstone]

Alot of people complained about Lucifer not being blonde......

Yep. And they’re all idiots. Tom Ellis is delightful.

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i think i listened to about 20 minutes of the audio book and fell asleep and gave up. They were summoning some dude or whatever. I bet this gets canned faster than american gods.

I put more effort into busing across town to fill in back issues back in the nineties.

That’s the problem with kids today. No attention span.

[shimerra]

Stop trying to gaslight me Endus, its disgusting behaviour. I'm surprised the mods let you get away with this crap so often.

To address the question, do you really think there wasn't someone who fitted the role better in respect to the visual side of a much recognised, loved character? I'm sure there are hundreds of other actors out there who would nail the character both visually AND personality-wise but they opted for a race swap.

Out of any comic book character Death is quinessentially recognised for her look. In my opinion I'm pretty sure they could have tried harder to bring that character to life on screen and retain its comicbook originals look.

But hey, feel free to accuse me of being a hateful racist if it makes you feel any better.

You could try not making a big deal out of a fairly minor point where the only logical conclusions are you have a problem with race or an unhealthy obsession with fictional material that you should probably seek counseling for. I'd also recommend not trying to assert secret agendas because you disagree with a casting choice. Because that's the type of crazy most people associate with the homeless man who screams about aliens while pissing on a dumpster. That might cause people to think differently of your actions.

[qwerty123456]

Yep. And they’re all idiots. Tom Ellis is delightful.

I wouldn't call them idiots. They just wanted the real version of a character they love. I never really gave a shit about DC Lucifer so for me Tom Ellis was amazing and now any version of him is going to have to be compared to him for me.

[Ivanstone]

I wouldn't call them idiots. They just wanted the real version of a character they love. I never really gave a shit about DC Lucifer so for me Tom Ellis was amazing and now any version of him is going to have to be compared to him for me.

Detached from the Sandman story he wasn’t going to be that character anyways. It really only matters if they execute the adaptation correctly. The Lucifer shows works mostly even if it's Just Another Police Procedural. The Sandman show is too far out to worry about. Hell Kirby Howell Baptiste might be the only thing that’s great about it.

[Egomaniac]

I wouldn't call them idiots. They just wanted the real version of a character they love.

The "real version" of Lucifer would be David Bowie.

I never really gave a shit about DC Lucifer so for me Tom Ellis was amazing and now any version of him is going to have to be compared to him for me.

So what you are saying is that even though Tom Ellis does not physically look like the comic book version of the character he is playing...he is now the baseline for which you will compare all other versions of the character?

wow, I guess physical appearance just isn't that important after all

[Endus]

Yep. And they’re all idiots. Tom Ellis is delightful.

Honestly, the Lucifer character in Sandman is really just kind of boring. He's bored and depressed and his entire character arc is basically "fucks off and abandons Hell, leaving Dream in the lurch". The interesting part of that is the demons, and how Dream deals with all that, and how it affects Duma and Remiel eventually.

While the TV show was pretty procedural at first, Tom Ellis brought so much to that role that I think it's clearly the better version of the character. Which isn't even really a slam on Gaiman; he wasn't using that plot thread to explore Lucifer as a character to begin with, really.

[qwerty123456]

The "real version" of Lucifer would be David Bowie.



So what you are saying is that even though Tom Ellis does not physically look like the comic book version of the character he is playing...he is now the baseline for which you will compare all other versions of the character?

wow, I guess physical appearance just isn't that important after all

No for me Tom Ellis would be my Lucifer so I would want someone that looks and acts like him, just like the DCAU is my favorite version of DC and so the green lantern I like the most is John Stewart and would want any films to be with him and the flash I want to see is redheaded Wally West.

Of course looks matter. Would you be ok if every non white character was whitewashed? No you wouldn't you wanna see your vision of the character brought to life. Funny how you ignored the fact that people did and do complain about a white person looking different than the white character they are playing. It's almost as if you have an agenda.

Think of it like the Ship of Theseus how much of a character can you change before its not the character you loved before?

I'm not saying it's not ok to do a version of X that looks different, what I'm saying is that just because someone wants "their" version of the character to be the one that is given life it doesn't mean they are a bigot.

[Lindon]

I wouldn't call them idiots. They just wanted the real version of a character they love. I never really gave a shit about DC Lucifer so for me Tom Ellis was amazing and now any version of him is going to have to be compared to him for me.

Now that Lucifer has been out for a while, there's not really a reason to complain about it. The series almost has as much to do with the comics as Superman has with Spider-man.
They've changed almost every aspect of the Lucifer comic, the story, the theme, the character and so on. I doubt anyone considers the series and comic the same at this point. There's just too many things that are completely different.

[qwerty123456]

Now that Lucifer has been out for a while, there's not really a reason to complain about it. The series almost has as much to do with the comics as Superman has with Spider-man.
They've changed almost every aspect of the Lucifer comic, the story, the theme, the character and so on. I doubt anyone considers the series and comic the same at this point. There's just too many things that are completely different.

I don't really know anything about the comic character but yeah I heard it was vastly different. Not sure why they even bought the rights for it. Mazikeen is the only one that I can think of that probably exists in the comic but isn't a biblical character. Not sure if Amenadiel was an angel name either but they could have easily swapped it for a different one.

[Lindon]

I don't really know anything about the comic character but yeah I heard it was vastly different. Not sure why they even bought the rights for it. Mazikeen is the only one that I can think of that probably exists in the comic but isn't a biblical character. Not sure if Amenadiel was an angel name either but they could have easily swapped it for a different one.

Alot of the characters in the series is actually from the comic. Mazikeen and Amenadiel are both in the comic. It's just that they are vastly different.

Aside from that I honestly think they bought the rights for it just for that extra advertisement possiblities. Easier to use an established brand than making a completely new one from scratch.

[Egomaniac]

I'm not saying it's not ok to do a version of X that looks different, what I'm saying is that just because someone wants "their" version of the character to be the one that is given life it doesn't mean they are a bigot.

The issue is that no actors look exactly like the comic characters... and a big reason for that is all of these characters have been drawn by different people. You will never be happy if you expect the character in the tv series to look exactly like they do in the comics. Hugh Jackman is over a foot taller than Wolverine in the comics. Does that make him a shitty Wolverine?

[Ivanstone]

They've changed almost every aspect of the Lucifer comic, the story, the theme, the character and so on. I doubt anyone considers the series and comic the same at this point. There's just too many things that are completely different.

This bit not so much. The TV show leans heavily into comedy whereas the Lucifer comic itself isn't. His motivations are very similar to the comic even if his personality isn't.

There are actually a lot of shared elements between the two mediums even if the TV show chooses a wildly different interpretation. Its like someone did a comedic pop rock version of Black Sabbath songs.

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No for me Tom Ellis would be my Lucifer so I would want someone that looks and acts like him,

Or you could be open minded and try something new. You have the Lucifer TV show if you're feeling nostalgic.

I think Tom Ellis is great. I don't need for him to play the same character on a different show and I would like to see Gwendoline Christie give Ellis a run for his money.

[Syegfryed]

Ah the old "there's no way of knowing what the truth really is so I choose to substitute my own version of reality" school of argument.

i just don't believe in everything people say, you do you.

You also have no way to prove he isn't simply saying what he believes. Interesting that you choose "He's a liar"

indeed i can't prove, thats why i said isn't a fact, im just saying what i believe, because its the "progressive" normal rule to do things now, it is doing the exact same thing i said it would.

1) causes commotion and give free media because the people are fighting over/talking about
2) shield the show of any complains/criticism, because if you say anything, even if you have reasons to do so, you are racist.

to me the right move was simple do both, first introduce the character like it was introduced in the comics/how it is well know among the fanbase, then switch for later episodes or in a season 2, showing her different forms

[Egomaniac]

i just don't believe in everything people say, you do you.

There's a difference between not believing everything people say and calling someone a liar without any evidence.

[qwerty123456]

The issue is that no actors look exactly like the comic characters... and a big reason for that is all of these characters have been drawn by different people. You will never be happy if you expect the character in the tv series to look exactly like they do in the comics. Hugh Jackman is over a foot taller than Wolverine in the comics. Does that make him a shitty Wolverine?

No actors look exactly but you can get them close. If looks don't matter then would you have been ok with Donald Glover playing Han Solo in Solo and the other guy play Lando instead? Of course not, you want them to look as close to the original actors as possible. And what did they do to Hugh Jackman to make him look as close to wolverine as possible? They made him get jacked and have that wolverine haircut for the alot of the films. They also had an even taller dude play Sabertooth and then when they swapped actors and had Liev Schreiber who is the same height as Hugh they framed alot of the shots so Liev looked taller.

And again I was pointing out you being wrong that people don't complain about white characters looking different.

Or you could be open minded and try something new. You have the Lucifer TV show if you're feeling nostalgic.

I think Tom Ellis is great. I don't need for him to play the same character on a different show and I would like to see Gwendoline Christie give Ellis a run for his money.

It's not about people wanting the actor to play the same character in everything its that people want their version of a character to be the one that continues on in what ever media.

[Egomaniac]

No actors look exactly but you can get them close. If looks don't matter then would you have been ok with Donald Glover playing Han Solo in Solo and the other guy play Lando instead? Of course not, you want them to look as close to the original actors as possible. And what did they do to Hugh Jackman to make him look as close to wolverine as possible? They made him get jacked and have that wolverine haircut for the alot of the films. They also had an even taller dude play Sabertooth and then when they swapped actors and had Liev Schreiber who is the same height as Hugh they framed alot of the shots so Liev looked taller.

And again I was pointing out you being wrong that people don't complain about white characters looking different.

They don't complain nearly as much when it's white actors that don't match up to the source characters. And they did absolutely nothing to make Jackman look shorter in the movies

Wolverine and Storm in the comics:



Wolverine and storm in the movies



This is what it looks like when they are making effort to make an actor look shorter:



This is not:

[Ivanstone]

It's not about people wanting the actor to play the same character in everything its that people want their version of a character to be the one that continues on in what ever media.

Its not your version of the character to begin with. You do understand that Lucifer is a mythological figure that's been through dozens of story interpretations? He's not going to be consulting the LAPD in Sandman. He definitely won't be fucking anyone. I shouldn't even be calling Lucifer a "He" since angels don't have a gender. He'll probably still have a contentious relationship with God.