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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I wouldn't call them idiots. They just wanted the real version of a character they love.
    The "real version" of Lucifer would be David Bowie.

    I never really gave a shit about DC Lucifer so for me Tom Ellis was amazing and now any version of him is going to have to be compared to him for me.
    So what you are saying is that even though Tom Ellis does not physically look like the comic book version of the character he is playing...he is now the baseline for which you will compare all other versions of the character?

    wow, I guess physical appearance just isn't that important after all
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-06-07 at 09:40 PM.

  2. #162
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Yep. And they’re all idiots. Tom Ellis is delightful.
    Honestly, the Lucifer character in Sandman is really just kind of boring. He's bored and depressed and his entire character arc is basically "fucks off and abandons Hell, leaving Dream in the lurch". The interesting part of that is the demons, and how Dream deals with all that, and how it affects Duma and Remiel eventually.

    While the TV show was pretty procedural at first, Tom Ellis brought so much to that role that I think it's clearly the better version of the character. Which isn't even really a slam on Gaiman; he wasn't using that plot thread to explore Lucifer as a character to begin with, really.


  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    The "real version" of Lucifer would be David Bowie.



    So what you are saying is that even though Tom Ellis does not physically look like the comic book version of the character he is playing...he is now the baseline for which you will compare all other versions of the character?

    wow, I guess physical appearance just isn't that important after all
    No for me Tom Ellis would be my Lucifer so I would want someone that looks and acts like him, just like the DCAU is my favorite version of DC and so the green lantern I like the most is John Stewart and would want any films to be with him and the flash I want to see is redheaded Wally West.

    Of course looks matter. Would you be ok if every non white character was whitewashed? No you wouldn't you wanna see your vision of the character brought to life. Funny how you ignored the fact that people did and do complain about a white person looking different than the white character they are playing. It's almost as if you have an agenda.

    Think of it like the Ship of Theseus how much of a character can you change before its not the character you loved before?

    I'm not saying it's not ok to do a version of X that looks different, what I'm saying is that just because someone wants "their" version of the character to be the one that is given life it doesn't mean they are a bigot.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I wouldn't call them idiots. They just wanted the real version of a character they love. I never really gave a shit about DC Lucifer so for me Tom Ellis was amazing and now any version of him is going to have to be compared to him for me.
    Now that Lucifer has been out for a while, there's not really a reason to complain about it. The series almost has as much to do with the comics as Superman has with Spider-man.
    They've changed almost every aspect of the Lucifer comic, the story, the theme, the character and so on. I doubt anyone considers the series and comic the same at this point. There's just too many things that are completely different.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    Now that Lucifer has been out for a while, there's not really a reason to complain about it. The series almost has as much to do with the comics as Superman has with Spider-man.
    They've changed almost every aspect of the Lucifer comic, the story, the theme, the character and so on. I doubt anyone considers the series and comic the same at this point. There's just too many things that are completely different.
    I don't really know anything about the comic character but yeah I heard it was vastly different. Not sure why they even bought the rights for it. Mazikeen is the only one that I can think of that probably exists in the comic but isn't a biblical character. Not sure if Amenadiel was an angel name either but they could have easily swapped it for a different one.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I don't really know anything about the comic character but yeah I heard it was vastly different. Not sure why they even bought the rights for it. Mazikeen is the only one that I can think of that probably exists in the comic but isn't a biblical character. Not sure if Amenadiel was an angel name either but they could have easily swapped it for a different one.
    Alot of the characters in the series is actually from the comic. Mazikeen and Amenadiel are both in the comic. It's just that they are vastly different.

    Aside from that I honestly think they bought the rights for it just for that extra advertisement possiblities. Easier to use an established brand than making a completely new one from scratch.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I'm not saying it's not ok to do a version of X that looks different, what I'm saying is that just because someone wants "their" version of the character to be the one that is given life it doesn't mean they are a bigot.
    The issue is that no actors look exactly like the comic characters... and a big reason for that is all of these characters have been drawn by different people. You will never be happy if you expect the character in the tv series to look exactly like they do in the comics. Hugh Jackman is over a foot taller than Wolverine in the comics. Does that make him a shitty Wolverine?

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    They've changed almost every aspect of the Lucifer comic, the story, the theme, the character and so on. I doubt anyone considers the series and comic the same at this point. There's just too many things that are completely different.
    This bit not so much. The TV show leans heavily into comedy whereas the Lucifer comic itself isn't. His motivations are very similar to the comic even if his personality isn't.

    There are actually a lot of shared elements between the two mediums even if the TV show chooses a wildly different interpretation. Its like someone did a comedic pop rock version of Black Sabbath songs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    No for me Tom Ellis would be my Lucifer so I would want someone that looks and acts like him,
    Or you could be open minded and try something new. You have the Lucifer TV show if you're feeling nostalgic.

    I think Tom Ellis is great. I don't need for him to play the same character on a different show and I would like to see Gwendoline Christie give Ellis a run for his money.

  9. #169
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Ah the old "there's no way of knowing what the truth really is so I choose to substitute my own version of reality" school of argument.
    i just don't believe in everything people say, you do you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    You also have no way to prove he isn't simply saying what he believes. Interesting that you choose "He's a liar"
    indeed i can't prove, thats why i said isn't a fact, im just saying what i believe, because its the "progressive" normal rule to do things now, it is doing the exact same thing i said it would.

    1) causes commotion and give free media because the people are fighting over/talking about
    2) shield the show of any complains/criticism, because if you say anything, even if you have reasons to do so, you are racist.

    to me the right move was simple do both, first introduce the character like it was introduced in the comics/how it is well know among the fanbase, then switch for later episodes or in a season 2, showing her different forms
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-06-08 at 12:31 AM.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i just don't believe in everything people say, you do you.
    There's a difference between not believing everything people say and calling someone a liar without any evidence.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    The issue is that no actors look exactly like the comic characters... and a big reason for that is all of these characters have been drawn by different people. You will never be happy if you expect the character in the tv series to look exactly like they do in the comics. Hugh Jackman is over a foot taller than Wolverine in the comics. Does that make him a shitty Wolverine?
    No actors look exactly but you can get them close. If looks don't matter then would you have been ok with Donald Glover playing Han Solo in Solo and the other guy play Lando instead? Of course not, you want them to look as close to the original actors as possible. And what did they do to Hugh Jackman to make him look as close to wolverine as possible? They made him get jacked and have that wolverine haircut for the alot of the films. They also had an even taller dude play Sabertooth and then when they swapped actors and had Liev Schreiber who is the same height as Hugh they framed alot of the shots so Liev looked taller.

    And again I was pointing out you being wrong that people don't complain about white characters looking different.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post


    Or you could be open minded and try something new. You have the Lucifer TV show if you're feeling nostalgic.

    I think Tom Ellis is great. I don't need for him to play the same character on a different show and I would like to see Gwendoline Christie give Ellis a run for his money.
    It's not about people wanting the actor to play the same character in everything its that people want their version of a character to be the one that continues on in what ever media.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    No actors look exactly but you can get them close. If looks don't matter then would you have been ok with Donald Glover playing Han Solo in Solo and the other guy play Lando instead? Of course not, you want them to look as close to the original actors as possible. And what did they do to Hugh Jackman to make him look as close to wolverine as possible? They made him get jacked and have that wolverine haircut for the alot of the films. They also had an even taller dude play Sabertooth and then when they swapped actors and had Liev Schreiber who is the same height as Hugh they framed alot of the shots so Liev looked taller.

    And again I was pointing out you being wrong that people don't complain about white characters looking different.
    They don't complain nearly as much when it's white actors that don't match up to the source characters. And they did absolutely nothing to make Jackman look shorter in the movies

    Wolverine and Storm in the comics:



    Wolverine and storm in the movies



    This is what it looks like when they are making effort to make an actor look shorter:



    This is not:
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-06-08 at 02:59 AM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    It's not about people wanting the actor to play the same character in everything its that people want their version of a character to be the one that continues on in what ever media.
    Its not your version of the character to begin with. You do understand that Lucifer is a mythological figure that's been through dozens of story interpretations? He's not going to be consulting the LAPD in Sandman. He definitely won't be fucking anyone. I shouldn't even be calling Lucifer a "He" since angels don't have a gender. He'll probably still have a contentious relationship with God.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    They don't complain nearly as much when it's white actors that don't match up to the source characters. And they did absolutely nothing to make Jackman look shorter in the movies

    Wolverine and Storm in the comics:



    Wolverine and storm in the movies



    This is what it looks like when they are making effort to make an actor look shorter:



    This is not:
    They don't complain about white people as much and yet you had people bitching about Lucifer, Jennifer Lawrence in the hunger games, Everytime they replace a redhead with a what ever, Me and other people like 2 days ago about Kraven(I think Aaron taylor johnson looks too young), Keanu as Constantine(he's my fav version tbh), Henry Cavil as the witcher until they saw him, And every time there is a casting of someone that doesn't look as close as another actor a person likes. I'm sure there are more but those are what I could think of off the top of my head.

    Like I said they originally went with a much larger Sabertooth. They cut back on making the characters as close later on once it was successful like Wolverine not perma having his "ear" haircut.

    https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/...w-112-2000.jpg


    Looks taller^ but isn't.

    And I've already said you can't ever get an actor to 100% a character. Hugh Jackman's only differences are his height and less hairy arms. If looks don't matter then why bother giving Storm white hair? Because its an iconic part of her character while wolverines isn't his height its his claws.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Its not your version of the character to begin with. You do understand that Lucifer is a mythological figure that's been through dozens of story interpretations? He's not going to be consulting the LAPD in Sandman. He definitely won't be fucking anyone. I shouldn't even be calling Lucifer a "He" since angels don't have a gender. He'll probably still have a contentious relationship with God.
    What I mean by their version of the character is the version they like the most. Like for me my version of the dc universe is the DCAU. I would much rather have a dc film based in that universe. That doesn't mean I didn't like the Wonderwoman, Aquaman, and Shazam films.

    People like "their" characters which is why there's 8 million Batman movies. If everyone was like you we wouldn't need more then one film about batman would we? Why bothering making another Batman movie when we can have something new?
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-06-08 at 03:32 AM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    What I mean by their version of the character is the version they like the most. Like for me my version of the dc universe is the DCAU. I would much rather have a dc film based in that universe. That doesn't mean I didn't like the Wonderwoman, Aquaman, and Shazam films.

    People like "their" characters which is why there's 8 million Batman movies. If everyone was like you we wouldn't need more then one film about batman would we? Why bothering making another Batman movie when we can have something new?
    Your the one who's advocating that their favourite should be in the new TV show without considering that it may not be appropriate for the story. What you should do instead is read the actual fucking comic (its great!), read Lucifer (the Mike Carey one) and then keep on open mind when this TV show is released.

    I didn't watch Lucifer for the longest time because I knew it was a weak adaptation of the comic (which I enjoyed). I did eventually watch it and enjoyed it on its own terms. Gwendoline Christie, Tom Ellis and Peter Stromare all performed the same character but I don't think a particular portrayal is universal or an improvement of the other.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    That's just because Schreiber is closer to the camera. It's called perspective. That's not a technique to make him look taller than Jackman.

    When they are standing face to face...they are approximately the same height. When Wolverine is standing with Storm...he is noticeably taller than her. When he is standing with Cyclops, again, they are about the same height. The X-Men movies never did anything to try and make Hugh Jackman look shorter than he is.

    In the comics Wolverine is 5'2 and Creed is 6'6. If they were attempting to be comics accurate...the height difference should be far more pronounced than half inch Schrieber has on Jackman.




    And I've already said you can't ever get an actor to 100% a character. Hugh Jackman's only differences are his height and less hairy arms. If looks don't matter then why bother giving Storm white hair? Because its an iconic part of her character while wolverines isn't his height its his claws.
    Wolverine's height is totally an iconic part of his character....it's why he's named Wolverine...because wolverines are small but ferocious creatures.

    So if Wolverine's height isn't important...why is Death's skin colour?

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    So if Wolverine's height isn't important...why is Death's skin colour?
    1. Wolverine's height is important. We just ignored it because Jackman is really good at it.
    2. Death's skin colour is entirely irrelevant since she doesn't have skin being a near omniscient, near omnipotent force of the universe. Some people see a pale goth girl when she personifies herself. Others see something different. Everyone sees a friend at the end. That last bit's the only part that matters.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    1. Wolverine's height is important. We just ignored it because Jackman is really good at it.
    Yeah, that's what I mean, it didn't "ruin the character".

    2. Death's skin colour is entirely irrelevant since she doesn't have skin being a near omniscient, near omnipotent force of the universe. Some people see a pale goth girl when she personifies herself. Others see something different. Everyone sees a friend at the end. That last bit's the only part that matters.
    I just wonder why people are willing to overlook Jackman's height but not Kirby's skin colour.

    The thing about seeing Death as the quintessential is funny to me though...because she's not even the biggest goth in her own family :P.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    That's just because Schreiber is closer to the camera. It's called perspective. That's not a technique to make him look taller than Jackman.

    When they are standing face to face...they are approximately the same height. When Wolverine is standing with Storm...he is noticeably taller than her. When he is standing with Cyclops, again, they are about the same height. The X-Men movies never did anything to try and make Hugh Jackman look shorter than he is.

    In the comics Wolverine is 5'2 and Creed is 6'6. If they were attempting to be comics accurate...the height difference should be far more pronounced than half inch Schrieber has on Jackman.






    Wolverine's height is totally an iconic part of his character....it's why he's named Wolverine...because wolverines are small but ferocious creatures.

    So if Wolverine's height isn't important...why is Death's skin colour?
    And why was he placed in the foreground???

    Iconic to you maybe. How many animated shows have him noticeably shorter than everyone? None. He's been depicted as the same size as everyone else except like cyclops and colossus. You're making it sound like he needs to be played by Danny Devito. And height is much less noticeable than most physical traits in films and television which is why Tom Cruise and Robert Downey Jr. look around the same height as many of the taller people in their films like Chris Hemsworth.

    Also we are way off topic. And I never mentioned Death's skin color all I said was that you were wrong that people don't complain about white people not looking the same and then mentioned a ton of examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Your the one who's advocating that their favourite should be in the new TV show without considering that it may not be appropriate for the story. What you should do instead is read the actual fucking comic (its great!), read Lucifer (the Mike Carey one) and then keep on open mind when this TV show is released.

    I didn't watch Lucifer for the longest time because I knew it was a weak adaptation of the comic (which I enjoyed). I did eventually watch it and enjoyed it on its own terms. Gwendoline Christie, Tom Ellis and Peter Stromare all performed the same character but I don't think a particular portrayal is universal or an improvement of the other.
    What are you talking about I didn't say any of that. I said that people like characters and want them to be like how they envision them.

  20. #180
    Funny how everyone ignored his comment on whitewashing and people raging like mad when it happens.
    Last edited by Delever; 2021-06-08 at 07:42 AM.

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