[TV] Neil Gaiman's The Sandman

[Skizzit]

I’ve never read a single comic.

I just noticed you have a Gaiman quote in your signature and you have never heard of one of his most famous works? Ok.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I just noticed you have a Gaiman quote in your signature and you have never heard of one of his most famous works? Ok.

I literally only know the guy because of American Gods and Coraline. People can be famous for multiple things. I even thought this thread was about an adaptation of Sandman from Spiderman at first.
He also wrote one of my favorite Doctor Who episodes, "The Doctor's Wife".

[SavoirFaire]

There’s already a thread on this on the second page.

I’m looking forward to this. The adaptation of American Gods was done well enough, hopefully they do this right as well.

[Xath]

Tom Ellis is honestly too perfectly cast personality wise The Sandman is amazing but I see there being major backlash because people are going to have watched Lucifer and expect more of the same but we will see.

[Ihavewaffles]

Still nothing on Death..

I'm always happy to see Lord Lannister in any project!

I would throw a fit if they did make Lucifer female lol.

xD


Neil Gaiman’s ‘The Sandman’ Casts Tom Sturridge, Gwendoline Christie, Vivienne Acheampong, Boyd Holbrook, Charles Dance, Asim Chaudhry And Sanjeev Bhaskar.

https://deadline.com/2021/01/the-san...an-1234681995/
By Dino-Ray Ramos - January 28, 2021 7:00am

It seems like forever, but the wait is about to an end. The anticipated Netflix adaptation of Neil Gaiman’s popular comic book series The Sandman is coming together. Tom Sturridge, Gwendoline Christie, Vivienne Acheampong, Boyd Holbrook, Charles Dance, Asim Chaudhry and Sanjeev Bhaskar have been set to star in the dark fantasy series based on the DC comics.

The series is described as a rich blend of modern myth and dark fantasy in which contemporary fiction, historical drama and legend are seamlessly interwoven”. The Sandman follows the people and places affected by Morpheus, the Dream King, as he tries to fix all the cosmic and human mistakes he’s made during his vast existence.

Allan Heinberg (Wonder Woman, Grey’s Anatomy) will serve as showrunner and executive producer alongside Gaiman and David S. Goyer (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Terminator: Dark Fate, Foundation). Gaiman, Goyer and Heinberg are also co-writers on the project.

“For the last 33 years, the Sandman characters have breathed and walked around and talked in my head. I’m unbelievably happy that now, finally, they get to step out of my head and into reality,” Gaiman said in a statement. “I can’t wait until the people out there get to see what we’ve been seeing as Dream and the rest of them take flesh, and the flesh belongs to some of the finest actors out there.”

He added, “This is astonishing, and I’m so grateful to the actors and to all of The Sandman collaborators — Netflix, Warner Bros., DC, to Allan Heinberg and David Goyer, and the legions of crafters and geniuses on the show — for making the wildest of all my dreams into reality.”

The Sandman adds to Gaiman’s list of fantasy series based on his work, which includes Amazon’s Good Omens, Starz’s American Gods and Lucifer, which now streams on Netflix.

Here are the character descriptions:

Tom Sturridge is Dream, Lord of Dreaming
Gwendoline Christie is Lucifer, Ruler of Hell
Vivienne Acheampong is Lucienne, chief librarian and trusted guardian of Dream’s realm
Boyd Holbrook is The Corinthian, an escaped nightmare who wishes to taste all that the world has in store
Charles Dance is Roderick Burgess, Charlatan, blackmailer and magician
Asim Chaudry is Abel and Sanjeev Bhaskar is Cain, the first victim and the first predator, residents and loyal subjects of the Dream Realm

An adaptation of The Sandman has been gestating for some time. Initially, it was set to be a feature film directed by and starring Joseph Gordon-Levitt. He ended up stepping down after creative differences. Gaiman and Goyer were also involved in the film adaptation.

[Ihavewaffles]

Well I mean... Fuck.

But tbh gender bent characters aren't that big of a deal when the characters are personifications of something so otherworldly as the ones in Sandman.

Also, she does look tougher than most of the guys in those pictures.

[Ihavewaffles]

The Sandman: Creator Neil Gaiman hints at casting a new Constantine

https://www.joblo.com/movie-news/the...an-constantine
a day ago by: Gaius Bolling

The news dropped last week that Netflix's adaptation of Neil Gaiman's The Sandman had found its primary cast but noticeably absent from the list of characters was John Constantine. Gaiman addressed the issue with a fan on Twitter who seemed to be upset that the series was recasting roles such as Lucifer, played by Tom Ellis on the Netflix series of the same name but will be portrayed by Gwendoline Christie on The Sandman. While addressing the fan, Gaiman revealed that Constantine will also be getting a casting change that has yet to be announced.

Neil Gaiman @neilhimself
You can't get from the Lucifer TV series to Sandman #3 or even Season of Mists. And we haven't yet announced the casting of Constantine. (That article is just confusing the TV version with the @audible_com version.)

Gaiman doesn't suggest who might be playing Constantine in The Sandman but his comment indicates that the character will play a role in the series as he does in the comic. It appears that fans were holding out hope that Matt Ryan would reprise his role as Constantine thanks to his central role on the short-lived NBC series that transitioned to him continuing the role in the wider Arrowverse, primarily on DC's Legends of Tomorrow. The actor has also provided vocals for the character for several DC animated efforts as well. It looks like Gaiman wants to go a different direction and we won't be seeing Ryan as Constantine and it seems doubtful that any Keanu Reeves stunt casting could happen in his reprisal of the role that he played in the 2005 film. It's easy to keep a fan favorite in the role but Gaiman clearly wants to make sure that The Sandman is its own thing.

[Ihavewaffles]

Stephen Fry To Play Fiddler’s Green In Netflix’s ‘The Sandman’

Jacob CampbellPOSTED ON MARCH 5, 2021

A major star has joined the already stacked cast of Netflix’s The Sandman series. During a recent interview, Stephen Fry let slip that he has been cast as Fiddler’s Green in the upcoming show.

The actor was recently interviewed during a break in the Live Test Cricket coverage on Channel 4 Thursday morning. During the interview, he revealed he is set to play “an Edwardian writer figure called Gilbert,” And as fans of the comics know, this is an alternate name of Fiddler’s Green, a sentient part of the Dreaming.

[Ihavewaffles]

Cinamon Hadley—The Inspiration for Neil Gaiman’s Death.

https://post-punk.com/cinamon-hadley...s-passed-away/
JANUARY 7, 2018

You get what anyone gets…
You get a lifetime…

Cinamon Hadley, the inspiration for the character design of Neil Gaiman’s Death of The Endless featured in his Sandman comics, passed away from a long battle with cancer on January 6th, 2018.

Previously, she had been diagnosed with the advanced stages of small cell neuroendocrine carcinoma of the colon but raised money for treatment causing her to go into remission.

Sadly, her cancer returned, and despite raising money for a new round of treatments via crowdfunding, she succumbed to the cancer’s spread.

Cinamon’s influence on Goth Fashion and culture cannot be overstated.

“Death is the only major character whose visuals didn’t spring from me; that credit goes to Mike Dringenberg. In my original Sandman outline, I suggested Death look like rock star Nico in 1968, with the perfect cheekbones and perfect face she has on the cover of her Chelsea Girl album.

But Mike Dringenberg had his own ideas, so he sent me a drawing based on a woman he knew named Cinamon Hadley — the drawing that was later printed in Sandman 11 — and I looked at it and had the immediate reaction of, “Wow. That’s really cool.” Later that day, Dave McKean and I went to dinner in Chelsea at the My Old Dutch Pancake House and the waitress who served us was a kind of vision. She was American, had long black hair, was dressed entirely in black — black jeans, T-shirt, etc. — and wore a big silver ankh on a silver necklace. And she looked exactly like Mike Dringenberg’s drawing of Death.”-Neil Gaiman



In an interview originally published in part in her book Some Wear Leather, Some Wear Lace: The Worldwide Compendium of Postpunk and Goth in the 1980s, our Editor Andi Harriman interviewed Cinamon on what her style inspirations were, and on how Mike Dringenberg utilized her for his design of Death.

Read an excerpt from an unreleased interview published for the first time below:

When did you first enter the scene? What attracted you to it?

“I was a ballerina and grew up on the stage. What attracted me to the deathrock scene was, it was like theatre–make-up, costumes…..oh and dancing! You could be so creative with hair, makeup and clothes. And I’m a very creative individual.

I designed and made most of my clothes-not only was I poor, but I had specific ideas of what I wanted to wear

I didn’t enter the scene until late ’87. I was 18. I dyed my hair black, bought black liquid eye liner, and bought my first pack of cigarettes-camel lights hard pack. Lol.
I heard about a dance club in Salt Lake called the Palladium. I put my ballet stage make-up on, my little black outfit and teased my hair as big as I could get it and went to the club. I was in awe. I felt so at home, everyone was nice to me and I thought everyone was so “cool”. I decided this was the world I wanted to be in.

I copied Patricia Morrison’s hair from Sisters of Mercy!”

Who inspired your look? Was there a specific person?

“I wasn’t really influenced by any specific person-except my big hair-it was more; I saw people in lots of black and lots of eyeliner- . I would just start out with my Maybeline liquid eye liner and just start drawing. I often didn’t know what I was going to do. I really like the Egyptian makeup, I guess actually I was influenced by King Tutankhamen -a photo used in the comic has this makeup. But, there really isn’t anything original- someone somewhere has done it or thought about doing it. I thought I was so creative, drawing a big spiderweb on my face and gluing a little plastic spider in the center—yeah-well, it had already been done. Now for the infamous swirl under Death’s eye. That was a result of one of my little drawing sessions on my face. Now I see it everywhere. It’s kind of neat.”

How did you get involved with Neil Gaiman?

“Mike Dringenberg, the original artist for the Sandman, was a good friend of mine. He asked me one day if he could use me as a character for a comic book. I said sure. I didn’t know anything about comics and I didn’t know it was even anything special. I certainly had no idea it would be what it is now.
Funny story-About three years after Mike asked me if he could use my likeness, I was living in Houston, having moved from Salt Lake City, and I was at a friend’s house. My friend told me his favorite comic was the Sandman and showed me an issue. When I opened it I saw a picture of myself staring back at me. (It was one of the 2 photographs actually used and just inked over). i said, ” oh my God, that’s me”. I had no idea I was in the Sandman, and I had even forgotten about being asked by Mike to use me as the model.”

https://twitter.com/neilhimself/stat...passed-away%2F

Neil Gaiman
@neilhimself


Rest in Peace, or head off to your next adventure, Cinamon Hadley. You gave Death of the Endless her face and her smile.

random goth girl,
https://gothgrammarist.wordpress.com...ots/#more-2145

The main influences of my high school years that have stuck are Anne Rice, Bauhaus, Joy Division, Nirvana, Nine Inch Nails, Tim Burton, and Neil Gaiman. I don’t know who I would be without those artists. They’ve directed me in places to go, how to dress, how to identify myself, and who my friends are.

The moment I discovered Neil Gaiman’s Sandman comic series I became obsessed. The artwork looked like something I wanted to be a part of, the culture I wanted to become. I wanted to look like Morpheus. Big crazy hair, a lot like Robert Smith’s. And then they introduced the rest of Morpheus’ siblings. Of course my favorite was Death, his sister, who looked like Siouxsie from the Banshees. Sandman was much more than gothic characters. The stories were complex and dark. Sometimes I was lost but I always felt the struggle was worth it. I read Sandman in high school and college. Gaiman transitioned from comics to novels. I’ve read every novel he has written and keep meaning to reread his Sandman series.



2021

Netflix's Sandman Show Casts Good Place Actress As Death & Adds 11 More Stars.

https://screenrant.com/sandman-show-...h-cast-update/
BY MOLLY FESER



Netflix's The Sandman casts The Good Place actress Kirby Howell-Baptiste as Death and announced eleven other stars added to the series. Based on Neil Gaiman's best-selling graphic novel series, the upcoming Netflix show will take a modern approach to the adventures of Morpheus, or Dream, the Lord of the Dream World. Set in the year 2021, the 11-episode series will focus on Morpheus after being imprisoned for 105 years as he sets out to restore order to his fallen kingdom and return to his realm.

Filming was initially set to begin in May of last year, but Netflix halted production due to the coronavirus pandemic. Gaiman later confirmed filming on the series started in the U.K. back in October, but many details surrounding the show are still being kept under wraps. The official cast for the series was announced earlier this year, including The Hollow Crown's Tom Sturridge in the lead role of Dream, Game of Thrones' Gwendoline Christie as Lucifer, and Boyd Holbrook as the nightmare Corinthian. Now Netflix has added more members to the cast.

In a tweet Wednesday, Netflix announced 12 new cast members to The Sandman, including The Good Place's Kirby Howell-Baptiste in the role of Death. Rounding out the cast is Jenna Coleman as Johanna Constantine, David Thewlis as John Dee, Stephen Fry as Gilbert, Patton Oswalt as Matthew the Raven, Joely Richardson as Ethel Cripps, Mason Alexander Park as Desire, Donna Preston as Despair, Niamh Walsh as Young Ethel Cripps, Kyo Ra as Rose Walker, Razane Jammal as Lyta Hall and Sandra James Young as Unity Kincaid.

Earlier this year, the role of Lucienne the Librarian was announced to be played by Vivienne Acheampong, while the two biblical brothers Cain and Abel will be played by Sanjeev Bhaskar and Asim Chaudhry, respectively. In addition to her memorable roles as Simone on The Good Place and Elena on Killing Eve, Howell-Baptiste also recently starred in Disney+'s Cruella. Meanwhile, Coleman, who will play Johanna Constantine, recently starred in Netflix's The Serpent as Charles Sobhraj's long-time girlfriend, Marie Andrée-Leclerc.

Several previous attempts at live-action Sandman adaptations have been made, all of which failed due to creative differences and were abandoned. However, Gaiman is also co-creating the Netflix adaptation, which fans expect to honor the source material. Along with Gaiman, Batman Begins writer David S. Goyer is executive producing the series while co-writing the pilot with Wonder Woman co-writer Allan Heinberg.

The Sandman certainly has quite a diverse group of talented actors in its cast. While the show has already been promised to be a faithful adaptation to Gaiman's novels, unlike past attempts, fans are still likely eager to learn more about what's to come from the show. However, the show is starting to seem more likely to be a fulfilling series with such a promising cast. While fans won't likely see the series hit Netflix for a while, the cast announcements help tide everyone over.

[Endus]

Before anyone starts whining about Howell-Baptiste's casting, the Endless canonically don't have specific forms. Their appearance is determined as much by the viewer as anything. Death's existed since the first life emerged, canonically, way longer than humanity has. She's also the same Death for life throughout the Universe, not just Earth.

Like, take this page; https://i1.wp.com/aboutcomics.blogwy...le-Brewing.jpg
Martian Manhunter immediately perceives Dream as L'zoril, not Morpheus, even though they clearly show Dream arriving as Morpheus the panel before. Their forms are mutable and dependent on the viewer. Death doesn't even have to look human, let alone like Cinnamon Hadley. Who wasn't even Gaiman's original vision for the character, as the article above makes clear.

Also, Gaiman himself is involved in the project, and thinks you're completely ridiculous for thinking the casting's an issue;
https://comicbook.com/dc/news/neil-g...ing-criticism/

[Acidbaron]

Loved the audio book so hopefully this is equally entertaining!

[Ihavewaffles]

Before anyone starts whining about Howell-Baptiste's casting, the Endless canonically don't have specific forms. Their appearance is determined as much by the viewer as anything.

This is known, and mentioned before in this thread, but you felt the need to bring it up anyways.

Yes, true, however it would be confusing to have multiple actors for the same character for the show, not good for ratings either as people invest interest in the vision that is established. Speaking of established, for that corporate shill gaiman to even have a career is due to the fans and the vision they were presented with hit the shredder "thx for the monies! I want other fans, non-goth/metal/punk for even more monies!"

There is zero need to defend diversity in a franchise that has diversity built into it, Sandman was for everyone if only they had known the shredder was waiting..

This is only about increasing the market by targeting other audiences while assuming established audience won't mind given the middle finger, if they stick around, more money for all! Why are you running defense for corporations, endus?

Are we to believe someone thought there was no diversity in Sandman? Someone who has read it? This seems more like someone who hasn't, or just wants increased market share n doesn't care, those darn fans being pesky just because they invested time n money doesn't mean their vision should stand in the way of profit.

Sure, they can do what they want, doesn't mean we should care.

Like, take this page; https://i1.wp.com/aboutcomics.blogwy...le-Brewing.jpg
Martian Manhunter immediately perceives Dream as L'zoril, not Morpheus, even though they clearly show Dream arriving as Morpheus the panel before. Their forms are mutable and dependent on the viewer. Death doesn't even have to look human, let alone like Cinnamon Hadley. Who wasn't even Gaiman's original vision for the character, as the article above makes clear.

What he wanted Death to look like, and how Death turned out are two different things, which part do you think matters the most to established fans? An established vision that made the fans, fans, or some vision in gaiman's head?

This is like saying instead of Harrison Ford's cool Han Solo I should instead care about Lucas original vision of Han Solo as a green alien pig-man.

Also, Gaiman himself is involved in the project, and thinks you're completely ridiculous for thinking the casting's an issue;
https://comicbook.com/dc/news/neil-g...ing-criticism/

uh-huh, lets see what he has to say

"I give all the f*cks about the work. I spent 30 years successfully battling bad movies of Sandman," Gaiman wrote. "I give zero fucks about people who don't understand/haven't read Sandman whining about a non-binary Desire or that Death isn't white enough.

Except he goes off n ignores people that have read the comics n starts talking about those who haven't in a weak attempt to deflect.

Why did he feel the need to defend Desire? Like, how else is that character supposed to turn out? I have zero problems with it, because that is how we expected the character to turn out, so no need to even talk about it.

What we didn't expect was how Death turned out. So, you can't just lump desire n death together.

It's not about whether this actress can act, I'm sure many other actresses can...uh...act.

It's not a good look to shrug off the fanbase, present them with a different vision n say things are the same.

They aren't.



This about repetitive corporate pattern for profits over the fans. One would have assumed the punk/metal/goth scene all the way from the 80s would resonate today considering how girls wear their hair n the colors, is very reminiscent. I guess I was stupid this would all be tied together somehow but it turns out I should have been thinking "how can this character sell more views in this or that group, in this or that part of the world!" Here I was thinking where we were going with what we had, ooopsie!


Ok, lets make a very blatant example, about a different show not some story, but irl, actual established historical figures, not make believe, this Queen of England wasn't some eternal, so you go ahead and explain this casting choice isn't about making more people across the world to watch. History is about what actually happened, not make believe, we can't write that England invaded Mars in 2012 and call it history, you can call it science fiction all you like.

Anne Boleyn was Queen of England from 1533 to 1536 as the second wife of King Henry VIII. Their marriage, and her execution for treason and other charges by beheading, made her a key figure in the political and religious upheaval that marked the start of the English Reformation.

- - - Updated - - -

Loved the audio book so hopefully this is equally entertaining!

Wasn't a fan (death's voice, audio book was good), an odd choice since so many talented voice actors n we got for death, kat dennings (thor, wanda vision) she has little range..seemed to phone it in..she should stick to Marvel.

3:10 gaiman "would you do the voice of death?"
kat "are you sure? have you heard me talk?"


so no, i have little faith in gaiman

[Endus]

There is zero need to defend diversity in a franchise that has diversity built into it, Sandman was for everyone if only they had known the shredder was waiting..

There is zero need to defend diversity in general, because literally the only people who have problems with "diversity" are, to be blunt, racists.

This is only about increasing the market by targeting other audiences while assuming established audience won't mind given the middle finger, if they stick around, more money for all! Why are you running defense for corporations, endus?

Gaiman is not a "corporation".

Nor have you given any reason to think it was about "increasing the market".

Which any TV show necessarily has to do, moving from a comic property, to begin with.

Are we to believe someone thought there was no diversity in Sandman? Someone who has read it? This seems more like someone who hasn't, or just wants increased market share n doesn't care, those darn fans being pesky just because they invested time n money doesn't mean their vision should stand in the way of profit.

...

Are you claiming that Neil Gaiman's just a semi-fan who hasn't even read the Sandman comics? Is that seriously your claim, here?

What he wanted Death to look like, and how Death turned out are two different things, which part do you think matters the most to established fans? An established vision that made the fans, fans, or some vision in gaiman's head?

I think the section of the fans who are racist enough to be bothered by this can go suck eggs. Gaiman thinks so too. And Gaiman's is pretty much the only opinion on the subject I care about other than my own, for pretty obvious reasons.

]qipte\uh-huh, lets see what he has to say

Except he goes off n ignores people that have read the comics n starts talking about those who haven't in a weak attempt to deflect.[/quote]

A fan who'd read the comics over and over would know that the Endless' physical appearance is mutable and dependent on whoever's perceiving them.

So we're not talking about fans, here. Not really.

Why did he feel the need to defend Desire? Like, how else is that character supposed to turn out? I have zero problems with it, because that is how we expected the character to turn out, so no need to even talk about it.

Because bigots are throwing hissies about a non-binary character being played by a non-binary actor.

It's not a good look to shrug off the fanbase, present them with a different vision n say things are the same.

They aren't.

Why not? The racists in the fanbase kicking up a fuss over this clearly isn't a segment Gaiman's worried about keeping contented.

Kudos to him on that, frankly.

Why should the fans get a say? Don't like the show? Then don't watch it. When it's successful despite you, you'll understand how little your opinion matters.

Ok, lets make a very blatant example, about a different show not some story, but irl, actual established historical figures, not make believe, this Queen of England wasn't some eternal, so you go ahead and explain this casting choice isn't about making more people across the world to watch. History is about what actually happened, not make believe, we can't write that England invaded Mars in 2012 and call it history, you can call it science fiction all you like.

You'll probably find that any other actress they cast wasn't actually Anne Boleyn, either. So why do you think it matters that much?

Spending all your time bitching that actors on screen are too dark-skinned for your sensibilities is a pretty bad look, friend.

[Grimbold21]

It's so nice to frame people along a black & white lens.

[Egomaniac]

It's not a good look to shrug off the fanbase, present them with a different vision n say things are the same.

They aren't.

Neil was pretty clear about what he thinks about "fans" that are bitching about the casting of these characters simply based on skin colour and gender identity. He's showing them the fucking door. And I, an actual fan of the series, applaud him for it.

[Ihavewaffles]

Gaiman is not a "corporation".

I suppose netflix is charity?

Which any TV show necessarily has to do, moving from a comic property, to begin with.

Why do you think marvel movies were successful? Because they respected the fans, and brought in other audiences at the same time. You can do both, didn't you know that?

Are you claiming that Neil Gaiman's just a semi-fan who hasn't even read the Sandman comics? Is that seriously your claim, here?

I wasn't pointing at him. But, whatevers

A fan who'd read the comics over and over would know that the Endless' physical appearance is mutable and dependent on whoever's perceiving them.

Stop kicking in open doors.

And we know which version of Death is recognizable n established up to now, so no need to pretend otherwise.

Because bigots are throwing hissies about a non-binary character being played by a non-binary actor.

Let me expand on what I was saying, this is like dismissing all criticism on last star wars trilogy by focusing on what some random guy on twitter wrote to kelly marie tran.

Wait didn't you, endus start writing at the end of the rise of skywalker thread before it stopped being updated that the movie was bad, despite you having run defense for it for how many months? I wish you would post honestly consistently, but it's always some ideological battle with you.

Why should the fans get a say? Don't like the show? Then don't watch it. When it's successful despite you, you'll understand how little your opinion matters.

Oh sure, star wars was successful too, n then started earning less n less. Who knows what happens to this show, maybe lots of new people that haven't read the comics will like it but this isn't the point. It's not really about that, it's like someone taking your favorite painting, paint it all white, let it dry n then say, "I'm sure I could do one even better than the last one!"

Maybe. But irrelevant. The act is disrespectful.

Spending all your time bitching that actors on screen are too dark-skinned for your sensibilities is a pretty bad look, friend.

Do you not understand historical facts n fiction are two different things? Stop playing obtuse.

- - - Updated - - -

Neil was pretty clear about what he thinks about "fans" that are bitching about the casting of these characters simply based on skin colour and gender identity. He's showing them the fucking door. And I, an actual fan of the series, applaud him for it.

Go right ahead if you can make this actress pull off the goth look, the paleness representing death, and inspire goth/metal/punk fans n honor them.

Sounds neat.

Does that acting choice seem like they cared one iota about any of that?

This would be like if Amazon's Lotr would replace the hobbits with dwarves, and then come and say it's all the same!

[Egomaniac]

Go right ahead if you can make this actress pull off the goth look, the paleness representing death, and inspire goth/metal/punk fans n honor them.

Sounds neat.

Does that acting choice seem like they cared one iota about any of that?

This would be like if Amazon's Lotr would replace the hobbits with dwarves, and then come and say it's all the same!

Death's paleness doesn't represent death. All of the Endless in the comics were pale. Destiny, Death, Dream, Destruction, Despair, Desire, Delight/Delirium...all of them. It has nothing to do with being goth. Death's fashion choices are what makes her "goth"...and, just so you are aware, Black people can be goth too.

[Endus]

I suppose netflix is charity?

Where did I bring up Netflix?

Why do you think marvel movies were successful? Because they respected the fans, and brought in other audiences at the same time. You can do both, didn't you know that?

So, on the one hand, do what the audience wants to see, and on the other, don't do stuff just because the audience wants to see it?

You're contradicting your own position.

Marvel's films were successful because they respected the source material, not the fans. They freely changed things to better fit the film experience, and the audience largely accepted that because of the underlying respect for the original material; nobody really cares that MJ is played by dark-haired non-white Zendaya in the new Spider-man films rather than a pale redhead, because Zendaya's take on the character is a better representation of the edgy outsider trope that MJ always represented, in today's world. The bits that were changed were just . . . not important factors to the character.

And you've got zero ground to complain that the Sandman series is not respecting the source material. You're kneejerking over casting.

Wait didn't you, endus start writing at the end of the rise of skywalker thread before it stopped being updated that the movie was bad, despite you having run defense for it for how many months? I wish you would post honestly consistently, but it's always some ideological battle with you.

Pretty darned sure I haven't ever suggested Rise of Skywalker was "good". I left the theater pretty disappointed. If you're confusing that with The Last Jedi, yeah. I maintain it's the best of the sequel trilogy, and better than any of the prequel trilogy, and maybe better than Return of the Jedi. And that, as much as I liked it, it was flawed. But every Star Wars film has major flaws. I won't reprise those arguments here and this is the last I'll say on it, I'm just reiterating what my stance was and that it hasn't changed. I'm being completely consistent, you're just not accurately describing my posts; you've got a straw man in your head you stapled my headshot to.

Oh sure, star wars was successful too, n then started earning less n less.

This is just factually inaccurate. https://www.statista.com/chart/20306...ffice-results/
The sequel trilogy had higher revenues than the prequels, and I'd have to dig into the data source to figure out if those figures include the remastered originals that were released in the '90s before the sequels came out.

Who knows what happens to this show, maybe lots of new people that haven't read the comics will like it but this isn't the point. It's not really about that, it's like someone taking your favorite painting, paint it all white, let it dry n then say, "I'm sure I could do one even better than the last one!"

Maybe. But irrelevant. The act is disrespectful.

If casting a black actor in a role is "disrespectful", to you, you've got some serious personal issues with prejudice you need to work out.

Plus, we should talk about the heaping amount of disrespect you've been showing to the Sandman comics and its creator, if you really want to talk about "respect".

Do you not understand historical facts n fiction are two different things? Stop playing obtuse.

It's your example, dude. I didn't bring up Anne Boleyn.

[Grimbold21]

Well, in a world of black and whites and of "stay in your lane", anyone other than "white" people would be in the process of committing cultural appropriation, that is, if you wanted to be picky about the roots of goth sub culture (or elements of it)

[Endus]

Neil was pretty clear about what he thinks about "fans" that are bitching about the casting of these characters simply based on skin colour and gender identity. He's showing them the fucking door. And I, an actual fan of the series, applaud him for it.

If I gave you a feed of my webcam, you'd see the full collection of the Sandman trades on my shelf behind me. There's a reason I'm interested enough to be posting here, and I get pretty irked when someone tries to speak on the behalf of the "fans" and put words in my (our) mouths, rather than admitting it's just their own petty grievances.