[TV] Neil Gaiman's The Sandman

[Okacz]

If the author of the the comic agrees with the casting then there's not much of a point to argue about anything. The creator of the universe has the last say regarding how a character can and will look.

Worked well for J. K. Rowling.

Look, I know it's hard to ever argue this without sounding like a racist. But isn't it in general, I don't know, good, to have actors resembling the characters from source material when creating an adaptation? Especially with comic books, where you translate visual medium into another visual medium. Of course, aside of cases where you explicitly make an environmental change in the adaptation.

[cyberglum]

Worked well for J. K. Rowling.

Look, I know it's hard to ever argue this without sounding like a racist. But isn't it in general, I don't know, good, to have actors resembling the characters from source material when creating an adaptation? Especially with comic books, where you translate visual medium into another visual medium. Of course, aside of cases where you explicitly make an environmental change in the adaptation.

I think a lot of people, including the person you're quoting, would agree with you. Problem is, even on this page we got "You're racist is you disagree with this choice!!!" posts...It's just not worth discussing.

I would add, of all the race/gender swaps that have happened this seems the most ill-conceived.

Does the choice do justice to its visual mediums origins? No. Is its progressive? I guess so..but it's not what it was.

[Endus]

Worked well for J. K. Rowling.

Look, I know it's hard to ever argue this without sounding like a racist. But isn't it in general, I don't know, good, to have actors resembling the characters from source material when creating an adaptation? Especially with comic books, where you translate visual medium into another visual medium. Of course, aside of cases where you explicitly make an environmental change in the adaptation.

The character in question isn't a person. She's the incarnation of a concept. And her appearance depends upon the viewer. In Death's case, she's literally existed longer than multicellular life, so the idea that she's looked exactly like a human goth girl the entire time is silly as hell.

We get more of this with Morpheus/Dream, because he's the main character, but here's Morpheus;



Guy on the left. We're seeing him through Nada's eyes (she's on the right) here.

Here's also Morpheus;



The big flaming head on the right, this time. From the Martian Manhunter's perspective.

The Endless are not even human. Their appearance is not a set thing.

[Okacz]

The character in question isn't a person. She's the incarnation of a concept. And her appearance depends upon the viewer. In Death's case, she's literally existed longer than multicellular life, so the idea that she's looked exactly like a human goth girl the entire time is silly as hell.

I was referring to the more popularized "avatar" of Death, you know, the pale one. While Endless don't have a "set" appearance, at least Death tends to stand in her Goth Form a lot.

However, I gotta say having thought about that, this sure is one of the cases where the source material totally allows for different artistic visions, so I'll stop being an ass about it, this could be good. This ain't Anne Boleyn or something like that, it's a shapeshifting avatar of death.

[cyberglum]

The character in question isn't a person. She's the incarnation of a concept. And her appearance depends upon the viewer. In Death's case, she's literally existed longer than multicellular life, so the idea that she's looked exactly like a human goth girl the entire time is silly as hell.

People who have read the series already know this and get that she can appear in various forms. No one is denying that. But when the Endless appeared to each other she appeared as the pale goth girl. Its her default form if you like (she appears that way in 99% of her appearances) and is the one the reader is first introduced too.

All that aside, its not really the point. They have/had a VERY iconic character visually which they've changed for supposed progressive reasons. I think its a questionable and rather stupid decision.

[Endus]

All that aside, its not really the point. They have/had a VERY iconic character visually which they've changed for supposed progressive reasons. I think its a questionable and rather stupid decision.

Ahh, yes, the "progressive" reasons of "this actress was the one who best nailed the character in her audition".

You're manufacturing a narrative based on nothing but your anger/irritation that a black actress was cast in a role.

[cyberglum]

Ahh, yes, the "progressive" reasons of "this actress was the one who best nailed the character in her audition".

You're manufacturing a narrative based on nothing but your anger/irritation that a black actress was cast in a role.

Ding! Ding! Didn't take long eh?

[Endus]

Ding! Ding! Didn't take long eh?

Do you have any other justification for claiming there's some kind of secret progressive agenda going on here, then?

[Egomaniac]

sort of? is not uncommon for people publicly say something when in reality they believe something else, or the reason is another one, we have no way to "proof"

You also have no way to prove he isn't simply saying what he believes. Interesting that you choose "He's a liar"

[cyberglum]

Do you have any other justification for claiming there's some kind of secret progressive agenda going on here, then?

Stop trying to gaslight me Endus, its disgusting behaviour. I'm surprised the mods let you get away with this crap so often.

To address the question, do you really think there wasn't someone who fitted the role better in respect to the visual side of a much recognised, loved character? I'm sure there are hundreds of other actors out there who would nail the character both visually AND personality-wise but they opted for a race swap.

Out of any comic book character Death is quinessentially recognised for her look. In my opinion I'm pretty sure they could have tried harder to bring that character to life on screen and retain its comicbook originals look.

But hey, feel free to accuse me of being a hateful racist if it makes you feel any better.

[Egomaniac]

.

All that aside, its not really the point. They have/had a VERY iconic character visually which they've changed for supposed progressive reasons. I think its a questionable and rather stupid decision.

You know, she can still have that same iconic look while being black. Black people can be goth too. Death isn't that pale because she's supposed to be goth. All the Endless choose to be that pale.

What you are upset about is that Death is not caucasian...but she never was. I don't mean that in the "she's not even a human" sense. I mean that in the sense that no human ever born has that natural skin tone. Even albino skin is "too dark" to match that particular complexion.

- - - Updated - - -

Stop trying to gaslight me Endus, its disgusting behaviour. I'm surprised the mods let you get away with this crap so often.

To address the question, do you really think there wasn't someone who fitted the role better in respect to the visual side of a much recognised, loved character? I'm sure there are hundreds of other actors out there who would nail the character both visually AND personality-wise but they opted for a race swap.

Out of any comic book character Death is quinessentially recognised for her look. In my opinion I'm pretty sure they could have tried harder to bring that character to life on screen and retain its comicbook originals look.

But hey, feel free to accuse me of being a hateful racist if it makes you feel any better.

Out of curiosity...did you rage this much when this guy:



was cast as this guy:

[Ivanstone]

Out of any comic book character Death is quinessentially recognised for her look.

Incorrect. Death is quintessentially recognized for her personality. Death only looks the way she does because that’s how Gaiman and Dringenburg interpreted her.

I’m sorry if your private Goth Fetish and/or Racist Beliefs were violated.

[Endus]

To address the question, do you really think there wasn't someone who fitted the role better in respect to the visual side of a much recognised, loved character? I'm sure there are hundreds of other actors out there who would nail the character both visually AND personality-wise but they opted for a race swap.

I have absolutely no reason to dispute Gaiman's statement that she was the best pick based on her audition.

You're placing too much importance on her skin color.

Out of any comic book character Death is quinessentially recognised for her look. In my opinion I'm pretty sure they could have tried harder to bring that character to life on screen and retain its comicbook originals look.

And yet, you don't really have any grounds for that. Dream's "look" is arguably just as recognizable, and hers really isn't that different from Morpheus'.

That's sort of the point I'm making. That, and you chose to make up stories about some supposed progressive agenda behind this, rather than accepting the clear statement that this actress best captured the character's personality in her audition. Why the emphasis on appearance over character?

[cyberglum]

Fuck me, I rest my case.

[Delever]

Fuck me, I rest my case.

Imagine arguing with Americans over this. I applaud you for lasting this long.

[Egomaniac]

Fuck me, I rest my case.

You aren't resting your case. You are running away from questions that you don't have an answer for.

[Endus]

Fuck me, I rest my case.

On what?

Because you haven't made a case. You made up a story about a progressive agenda, and ignored the word of the creator that the actress was picked for capturing the personality best of all candidates.

Asking you to explain and defend yourself isn't "gaslighting", dude.

[jonnysensible]

hang on whats the progressive agenda lol

no one cares about the books you nerds this is a tv show.

[Ivanstone]

hang on whats the progressive agenda lol

no one cares about the books you nerds this is a tv show.

I care about the books! And they better do a good fucking job on the TV show!

Or I might pause my Netflix account slightly longer than last time I paused it!

[Egomaniac]

hang on whats the progressive agenda lol

no one cares about the books you nerds this is a tv show.

Funny thing is that most of the people that are complaining about the casting for the tv show clearly have not read the books.