[TV] Neil Gaiman's The Sandman

[Endus]

Death's original appearance in combination with personality is largely considered iconic and was her base revert for decades.

And aren't the sum of the character or her appearances.

Make new characters or actually promote the ones that already exist instead of constantly race bending.

There's no race-bending going on here. Death does not have a race. She isn't a human being. You can't race-bend an entity that has no race to speak of.

Most people who grew up reading sandman have a view of a specific iconic look for death that was heavily inspired by Cinamon Hadley as being her base. Now maybe Kirby just knocks the performance out of the water or they heavily diverge from the series like Lucifer who knows. Just saying wanting an iconic look doesn't equal being racist.

You don't have grounds for protesting that she won't have that look.

That is where it gets racist.

[Syegfryed]

Wait. Let me get this straight. People are against... the Black Death? HAHAHAHAHA..

now that you mention this, a lot of people keep saying associate bad things with black is bad connotation, like black magic is bad, white magic is good, and here are people wanting the "death" to be black.

I personally would prefer if they made the most well know version for the character first, it work well for hero movies, because people who read are more familiar with and want recognition in tv/cinema, is understandable. so, when the episodes goes they show the different versions.

But the author seems like want this drama on purpose to increase engagement, bold move, But if he wants that, its his word and there is not much more to say.

[Rennadrel]

They can talk. They don't have a legitimate complaint. They're whining that a new production is not adequately stroking their nostalgia. They want "more content", but simultaneously "no new/different content". It's impossible to satisfy.

Get back to me when you have legitimate criticisms of a property. Whining that a genderless, raceless, speciesless incarnation of a concept is being portrayed by a black woman in the upcoming Sandman series is not a legitimate criticism. It's just racism.

It's a good thing then that all of these terrible adaptations are getting panned hard by audiences, or are you going to sweep Netflix's awful Cowboy Bebop adaptation getting violently axed after one season under the rug because it was terrible and disrespectful to the source material? People are starting to wake up and see these adaptions for what they are and it doesn't bode well for the entertainment industry to be pissing off fans of the source material because they are the people buying tickets and subscriptions.

[Endus]

It's a good thing then that all of these terrible adaptations are getting panned hard by audiences, or are you going to sweep Netflix's awful Cowboy Bebop adaptation getting violently axed after one season under the rug because it was terrible and disrespectful to the source material? People are starting to wake up and see these adaptions for what they are and it doesn't bode well for the entertainment industry to be pissing off fans of the source material because they are the people buying tickets and subscriptions.

And plenty of good adaptations.

The MCU is largely lauded; the "worst" films are still solid action flicks. For instance.
As much as I mock Christian Bale's Batman voice, that trilogy was highly respected.
Scott Pilgrim vs. The World was great.
Sin City was about as perfect as you could hope, and any flaws are basically directly tied to the source material.
V for Vendetta.
The Hellboy movies with Perlman.
And so on. And that's just looking at comic book adaptations.

"see these for what they are"? What nonsense conspiracy lunacy are you even talking about?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Death's original appearance in combination with personality is largely considered iconic and was her base revert for decades.

You're still making her entire character about her skin colour.

Sorry, bro. Your casual racism is still racism.

Just saying wanting an iconic look doesn't equal being racist.

From what we've seen...she has the "iconic look"... or don't you think black people can be goth?

[Biomega]

The Hellboy movies with Perlman.

Honestly it's more Perlman AS Hellboy. The movies are... eh. Him playing the character is spectacular. Recasting him was a crime against humanity, he was born to play Hellboy.

[s_bushido]

It's a good thing then that all of these terrible adaptations are getting panned hard by audiences, or are you going to sweep Netflix's awful Cowboy Bebop adaptation getting violently axed after one season under the rug because it was terrible and disrespectful to the source material? People are starting to wake up and see these adaptions for what they are and it doesn't bode well for the entertainment industry to be pissing off fans of the source material because they are the people buying tickets and subscriptions.

lol... What "all of these" are you even talking about? Most adaptations suck (or are mediocre at best). It's only when there's some sort of race/gender swap going on that bigoted twits come out of the woodwork pretending that that's the particular reason the "source material is being disrespected" and not all the myriad other design/story changes that go into these all the time.

It was mentioned before, but the white actors playing ostensibly Inuit characters weren't the reason the Airbender movie was garbage. It was everything else about it...

[Endus]

Honestly it's more Perlman AS Hellboy. The movies are... eh. Him playing the character is spectacular. Recasting him was a crime against humanity, he was born to play Hellboy.

I mean, he aged out, basically. He couldn't keep up with the physical demands. He IS over 70, now.

The newest one, with Harbour, Harbour's a pretty close second. The bigger problems were that it bit off way too much of the story and it was both rushed and nearly incomprehensible to someone who wasn't a big fan of the comics, and could fill in the gaps from there. That's a writing issue, not a casting issue. If it had been a true sequel, with the same writers and directors, and just swapping in Harbour for Perlman, I imagine everyone would have loved it. I still enjoyed the Harbour film, but I'll freely recognize that's because I'm such a big fan of the source material; bad Hellboy was still better than no Hellboy.

[Xath]

I already pointed out how this bitching has absolutely nothing to do with "looking like the comic".

Since the character's taken on that kind of appearance in those very same comics. As I linked above.

So it's more like complaining that they have Sam Jackson playing Nick Fury. Despite Sam Jackson literally being the explicit character model for Ultimates Fury.

And I already pointed out that you are ignoring 30 years of history to reference a 2021 story where they had likely already made the casting.

- - - Updated - - -

You're still making her entire character about her skin colour.

Sorry, bro. Your casual racism is still racism.



From what we've seen...she has the "iconic look"... or don't you think black people can be goth?

Look includes skin color it's the juxtaposition of the two elements much like the juxtaposition of her "job" and her personality. Sorry bro.

[eschatological]

Weird, today I learned I wasn't goth in high school because I'm a brown man. Crazy.

[Endus]

And I already pointed out that you are ignoring 30 years of history to reference a 2021 story where they had likely already made the casting.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just not accepting one particular representation of a character to be the only possible representation, when it's clear that's not the case, canonically, in the same comics history you are trying to cite as precedent.

Look includes skin color it's the juxtaposition of the two elements much like the juxtaposition of her "job" and her personality. Sorry bro.

I mean, that's just straight racism.

[Xath]

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just not accepting one particular representation of a character to be the only possible representation, when it's clear that's not the case, canonically, in the same comics history you are trying to cite as precedent.



I mean, that's just straight racism.

? I am literally talking about color theory juxtaposition of black and white along with juxtaposing cheerfulness with death. Like I said even a white actress would basically need ghost makeup so maybe they do that but who knows.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Look includes skin color it's the juxtaposition of the two elements much like the juxtaposition of her "job" and her personality. Sorry bro.

That isn't the winning argument you think it is.

[Endus]

? I am literally talking about color theory juxtaposition of black and white along with juxtaposing cheerfulness with death. Like I said even a white actress would basically need ghost makeup so maybe they do that but who knows.

Your argument is about an obscure metaphorical connection that isn't even true for the character in question, for whom there isn't any "juxtaposition" to be had; neither death nor Death is something to be feared or unhappy about, in the first place. Plus, all the Endless are that pale, which continues to not make any sense with your theory; by your argument, Delight (before she was Delirium) would have been pale to "juxtapose cheerfulness with delight", which is . . . metaphorically meaningless, practically tautological.

This really just is not a thing at all, with the Endless and how they're portrayed, let alone Death herself.

[Xath]

Your argument is about an obscure metaphorical connection that isn't even true for the character in question, for whom there isn't any "juxtaposition" to be had; neither death nor Death is something to be feared or unhappy about, in the first place. Plus, all the Endless are that pale, which continues to not make any sense with your theory; by your argument, Delight (before she was Delirium) would have been pale to "juxtapose cheerfulness with delight", which is . . . metaphorically meaningless, practically tautological.

This really just is not a thing at all, with the Endless and how they're portrayed, let alone Death herself.

Okay you are literally being contrary to be contrary now. Yes Death is absolutely something to be feared and be unhappy about even if you believe in the afterlife it's still an ending.

[SavoirFaire]

is every thread in this forum just the same few posters crying about black people existing in things that arent out yet lmao.

hey xath what do you think of denzel as macbeth?

If we didn’t have that this would be a one page thread just talking about news and updates on the show. Who wants that shit?

[Endus]

Okay you are literally being contrary to be contrary now. Yes Death is absolutely something to be feared and be unhappy about even if you believe in the afterlife it's still an ending.

I'm now doubting you've ever read Sandman, like, ever. The entire characterization of Death revolves around how she's a natural force, the inevitable ending of every beginning, that the ending of life is what gives life its value, that Death is there for everyone as they pass on, and that many people seek death, precisely because it can be a calming end, a passageway to the next stage of their lives. Those who rage against Death in the comics are presented as tragic figures who are largely broken by their futile efforts; that the hatred and fear of Death is unnatural and harmful to the one expressing it.

Particularly with phrases like "even if you believe in the afterlife", because in the comics, that's not up for debate.

And I'm the one "being contrary to be contrary"?

[eschatological]

? I am literally talking about color theory juxtaposition of black and white along with juxtaposing cheerfulness with death. Like I said even a white actress would basically need ghost makeup so maybe they do that but who knows.

Your argument is basically that black people can't be properly goth, or portray a cheerful-acting Death, because they can't pull off the contrast with black clothes well enough.

Which is, of course, fucking nonsense.

[MCMLXXXII]

Your argument is basically that black people can't be properly goth, or portray a cheerful-acting Death, because they can't pull off the contrast with black clothes well enough.

Which is, of course, fucking nonsense.

It's not just nonsense, it's actually racist as fuck.

[Triceron]

Wheel already got displaced by Reacher which has maybe half the budget if that they aren't sharing and usually they share big budgets and basically no star power in terms of casting. It's almost like if you make a faithful adaptation of a beloved work it tends to do very well.

Wheel sucked while Reacher did not. Being a faithful adaptation has nothing to do with simply not sucking like WoT did.

Peacemeaker is better than both and isn't based on anything.

Book of Boba Fett sucked while Mandalorian was great, and both shows have the same creative team behind both shows. Same producers and writers. The difference is Mandalorian was written well and Book of Boba Fett was not.

You gotta look beyond the social issues if we're gonna legitimately talk about why shows did better than others. Race casting isn't the reason why things are great or why they suck.

Even in the LOTR thread, the LOTR movies were great, the Hobbit movies were not. Casting wasn't inclusive at all, and followed exactly the same formula as LOTR did. Movie still sucked.