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  1. #101
    At this rate the only way to up Alliance raid numbers is to make them have OP racials; which will just cause every Horde player to shift Alliance and then you have the same thing, just swapped.
    Unfortunately, the damage is done and I don’t think there is any way to correct it minus Blizzard forcing players to swap, or potentially to approach their high end guilds like Method and everyone else to go Alliance to promote the faction.

  2. #102
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    At this rate the only way to up Alliance raid numbers is to make them have OP racials; which will just cause every Horde player to shift Alliance and then you have the same thing, just swapped.
    Unfortunately, the damage is done and I don’t think there is any way to correct it.
    Don't give any idea to Blizz because everyone will faction swap and it will be a cluster fuck - I like everyone being on Horde damnit

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    Don't give any idea to Blizz because everyone will faction swap and it will be a cluster fuck - I like everyone being on Horde damnit
    Lol. Just pointing out the only thing I could think of. I don’t believe for 1 second Blizz would actually attempt something like this. We’re more bound to see cross faction raiding before that happens. I honestly wouldn’t mind that. Opens up an entire new pool of raiders, plus I miss playing werewolves and vampire BEs.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Factions are a core part of WoW. You really need a BIG functionality problem for that to be changed.

    Like, i get that it really allows for a lot of different sort of play, but it also removes the entire of idea of the factions being at odds with each other and you will never, and i mean never, be able to return that again when it is done.
    This argument makes zero sense when you remember that it's possible to act as a mercenary in PvP. You know, the actual part of the game where you're fighting the other faction instead of some outside threat. And yet you're freely allowed to team up with your enemies, while not being to do the same against threats against the entire world.

    Not to mention that we're supposedly at peace now and next expansion is focused on four entirely different factions, so lorewise, it makes zero sense to keep the separation, especially between the supposed heroes of Azeroth.

    Also, War Mode is optional, so you can ignore the entire "factions are at odds with each other" entirely if you want to.

  5. #105
    Horde campaign was quite vile and disgusting. Bloody scourge.. I cannot see myself siding with those animals.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    At this rate the only way to up Alliance raid numbers is to make them have OP racials; which will just cause every Horde player to shift Alliance and then you have the same thing, just swapped.
    Unfortunately, the damage is done and I don’t think there is any way to correct it minus Blizzard forcing players to swap, or potentially to approach their high end guilds like Method and everyone else to go Alliance to promote the faction.
    We haven't actually observed this. What we have observed is that Alliance have great racials for a bunch of high end things now, and so you see Alliance races popping up in tightly controlled settings like MDI or Arena Tournaments. Outside of those settings, the Horde progression community is still orders of magnitude larger, and people who want to run difficult things are always looking for the biggest crowd to sort through. If there is going to be a shift back from horde dominance of high-end content, it's gonna happen at about the same rate that we saw the shift to it: roughly a decade. But things aren't going to shift back since nobody even perceives it as a problem, by and large.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    because the main source of income - the non subscription services (that's official statement btw from actiblizz, also quite old from when they stopped reporting sub numbers) - will lose a massive drop of faction transfer cash
    when no one in alliance anymore is whale enough to pay for faction transfer and they only bleed the 5 alliance players left, they will 'open it', yay
    i'm horde but even i feel disgusted from that
    I mean it's ingenous if you think about it, after everyone finally transfered over to horde, they will at long last allow it so all those that played on alliance for the story can pay them AGAIN to get back. This will earn Blizzard a place in a the hall of fame of conns, right next to the guy that invented the ponzi scheme.
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2020-02-22 at 01:44 PM.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by LuminaL View Post
    removing everything that is slightly unbalance from the game will only make this game even more bland and boring. its what they did with the abilities and spells of classes and look how stupid and repetitive they are now. stop asking for stuffs to get removed for the sake of balance, they can always add things to the unbalanced side of things. the only game that is balance is the game where everything is a copy paste of everything else, is that what you want?
    No, no you can't just add things infinitely "for the sake of balance" without making things convoluted and bloated, that just results in a see-saw effect of imbalance moving both ways.

    Also, I don't want identical everything, you're just arguing the straw man there saying I do. I don't see how saying racials, which have a faction balancing effect, means I'm out to make the entire game one even layer. I'm saying something that is exclusive to one faction, and imbalanced, isn't something good for the long term health of the game. We're clearly seeing that play out, and you and Blizzard are just blindly looking the other way instead of even contemplating attempting a solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    It’s not a racials matter in the slightest. Non top guilds which don’t compete for “something first” (95+% of the player base), be it PvE or PvP, will simply play the toon they want to play anyways.

    No one cares about alliance anymore, it’s as simple as that.
    That's where you're wrong. It's not a simple "this problem encompasses all the problems 100%", but one that has complicating factors stemming from one issue.

    Let's just say that 5% of the top players decide to go Horde because the racials were better and made it easier.
    - After that, the next 5% below the top players go, "I really want to try to be the best, what will give me that edge?" What do do they do? They go Horde.

    - Another 5% of their guild decide, "Hey, I want to still raid too and if you're going Horde, I guess I will to."

    - Another 5% who never raided before decide, "Hey I want to try raiding. I see more recruitment ads for Horde, so I think I'm better off over there."

    - Another 5% of Alliance players go, "Man, our raid team keeps shrinking and we can't even field a team anymore, what's going on? Oh everyone is Horde, I guess I have to switch too."

    So suddenly that "Just 5% of raiders choosing a faction due to something small" has compounded itself over years and years.

    The Truth is, they will never fix it without over rewarding / over powering the Alliance, and frankly, that's not a good decision. They need to just roll us all together as 1 faction for PvE content, and have something like the Aldor / Scryer system for PvP.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    No, no you can't just add things infinitely "for the sake of balance" without making things convoluted and bloated, that just results in a see-saw effect of imbalance moving both ways.

    Also, I don't want identical everything, you're just arguing the straw man there saying I do. I don't see how saying racials, which have a faction balancing effect, means I'm out to make the entire game one even layer. I'm saying something that is exclusive to one faction, and imbalanced, isn't something good for the long term health of the game. We're clearly seeing that play out, and you and Blizzard are just blindly looking the other way instead of even contemplating attempting a solution.



    That's where you're wrong. It's not a simple "this problem encompasses all the problems 100%", but one that has complicating factors stemming from one issue.

    Let's just say that 5% of the top players decide to go Horde because the racials were better and made it easier.
    - After that, the next 5% below the top players go, "I really want to try to be the best, what will give me that edge?" What do do they do? They go Horde.

    - Another 5% of their guild decide, "Hey, I want to still raid too and if you're going Horde, I guess I will to."

    - Another 5% who never raided before decide, "Hey I want to try raiding. I see more recruitment ads for Horde, so I think I'm better off over there."

    - Another 5% of Alliance players go, "Man, our raid team keeps shrinking and we can't even field a team anymore, what's going on? Oh everyone is Horde, I guess I have to switch too."

    So suddenly that "Just 5% of raiders choosing a faction due to something small" has compounded itself over years and years.

    The Truth is, they will never fix it without over rewarding / over powering the Alliance, and frankly, that's not a good decision. They need to just roll us all together as 1 faction for PvE content, and have something like the Aldor / Scryer system for PvP.
    Factions are still 50/50, so this is fine.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    15 Alliance guilds in the top 100.

    289 Alliance guilds in the top 1000.

    None in the top 10 or killed n'zoth.

    Yet no chance for faction merges as said in last blizzcon.
    How many guilds exist in the game in total?
    If we are looking at 1000 out of like 20k then it's not really a big deal for anyone who is not meta-gaming and doesn't really reflect total faction population.

    For those who do see this as a big deal and are willing to shell out extra money to swap to whatever gives them taht 1% edge.... I wonder if ActiBlizz will just wait until 90% of the population (tha cares about this) switches. Then post that they noticed an imbalance and give the opposite faction (Alliance at this point) a notable racial buff making them the defacto go-to for min-maxers causing another shift in population and another huge influx of cash for them.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    Factions are still 50/50, so this is fine.
    It's not about racials (too late at this point anyways even though they are balanced now) and also not about the overall population.
    Crossfaction pve wouldn't change the population but it would improve PvE for both sides massively.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Yeah, a minor inconvenience like a core concept of the game itself.

    Jesus dude. It ain't happening and the lack of raiding guilds Alliance side isn't the game breaking issue you seem to think it is.
    If the faction imbalance is so bad that you can't raid an entire raid mode I would call it a game breaking issue. I mean, imagine if you couldn't play the hardest difficulty of a game you purchased due to a bug, wouldn't you call it game breaking?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    It's not about racials (too late at this point anyways even though they are balanced now) and also not about the overall population.
    Crossfaction pve wouldn't change the population but it would improve PvE for both sides massively.
    You would think 6 pages in of people saying the exact same thing you are, people would stop spouting the nonsense you quoted yet here we are LOL.
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    Factions are still 50/50, so this is fine.
    Factions aren't 50/50, though.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    Factions aren't 50/50, though.
    Even if they were, it wouldn't matter for the topic at hand. The only incentive to go Alliance in high end mythic content is easier access to Hall of Fame - at the cost of harder recruitment and spending a lot of money. Doesn't seem to do much, seeing how the Horde side is still filling up much faster and it didn't change since the very start.

  16. #116
    These days it seems like having factions is more of a problem than it is a benefit. Especially when you consider most Alliance guilds at the top are probably on Alliance dominated servers. So the servers are always completely one sided.

    You're severely limiting your options, especially when it comes to guild options, player pool, raid times, raid days, M+, pugging in generaland friends, by playing Alliance. When you consider the current story and how the Alliance is just 'those guys that are there' for the Horde, well, why would you even play Alliance? Honestly, with how often the Horde and Alliance work together I am still quite surprised that they either haven't merged, or there isn't another "mercenary" feature that allows you to choose sides, while still remaining on one. But I suppose all of those hardcore Alliance vs Horde fanboys would just lose their minds at the thought of it, "Warcraft" and all. So progress will never be made there
    Last edited by La; 2020-02-22 at 09:42 PM.
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  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Doesn't seem to do much, seeing how the Horde side is still filling up much faster and it didn't change since the very start.
    It's more likely that if you shift through guilds in "alliance's hall of fame" for Uldir or BOD you'd find out that by now several of them either went horde or disbanded. Which means it's only getting worse over time not better. Show me a horde guild that swapped to alliance in BFA, and not in Australia / Oceanic. I bet nobody can find one.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    These days it seems like having factions is more of a problem than it is a benefit. Especially when you consider most Alliance guilds at the top are probably on Alliance dominated servers. So the servers are always completely one sided.

    You're severely limiting your options, especially when it comes to guild options, player pool, raid times, raid days, M+, pugging in generaland friends, by playing Alliance. When you consider the current story and how the Alliance is just 'those guys that are there' for the Horde, well, why would you even play Alliance? Honestly, with how often the Horde and Alliance work together I am still quite surprised that they either haven't merged, or there isn't another "mercenary" feature that allows you to choose sides, while still remaining on one. But I suppose all of those hardcore Alliance vs Horde fanboys would just lose their minds at the thought of it, "Warcraft" and all. So progress will never be made there
    This is why I was actually excited about the theory that the faction divide was going away at the end of BfA. At this point storywise it makes almost no sense and hasn't really for a long time and gamewise it's just a pointless division of the playerbase that cause more problems than it's worth. Removing it would have freed up a lot of dev resources too because they no longer need to design horde/alliance only stuff. I was pretty disappointed when Ion said that it wasn't going anywhere. It made BfA even feel more pointless.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    They have recently (post-Blizzcon) said they are open to cross-faction gameplay, without the factions ever merging.
    No one expects the factions to merge, just that we can have cross-faction play and you can easily do it for other functions in WoW if you already allow it in the one place it "shouldn't" be allowed: PvP. Merc mode is very real and I don't understand why that's fine but other areas of gameplay aren't.

    That said, they're not doing it for 9.0. Maybe expansion 9 will have it, but not SL.

    PS: You can even make it work in War Mode outdoor content. Everyone just pretends to be the faction that the party/raid leader is, maybe everyone wears their opposite faction race's mask, like humans wear orc masks. Vulpera wear Mechagnome masks, etc. Easy peasy. In non-PvP instances, you are your "correct" faction because factions don't matter in dungeons, raids, and scenarios. In BGs you switch your actual race to match your side just like Merc Mode today. RBGs do not swap you and neither do Arenas as those are about who is the best, not the faction v faction stuff.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2020-02-23 at 01:28 AM.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    No one expects the factions to merge, just that we can have cross-faction play and you can easily do it for other functions in WoW if you already allow it in the one place it "shouldn't" be allowed: PvP. Merc mode is very real and I don't understand why that's fine but other areas of gameplay aren't.

    That said, they're not doing it for 9.0. Maybe expansion 9 will have it, but not SL.
    About the only explanation I can see for not doing this with 9.0 is the fact that they're already devoting a lof of resources into level squish. This is bound to break a ton of things and cause a lot if issues, which is why they might not be interested into another serious rework of core systems. Unlike random BGs, grouping for Mythic (both raids and dungeons) is entirely manual, so they'd need to make a way to allow cross faction communication, grouping, perhaps even guilds/communities. Also, dismantling Hall of Fame, since it would be nearly useless. And all while angry purists scream that this is destroying the core of Warcraft.

    'Course, by the time they get to it - assuming they even do - Alliance raiding scene might be completely dead.

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