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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by alduron View Post
    The only timegate I had a real problem with was the original battle for hyjal one in tbc, which required 25 kael and 25 vashj kills, at a minimum.
    Wait... you personally did not need to kill Vashj 25 times. Everyone in the Raid had to kill either 1 time. in an 25 (!!) man Raid

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Wait... you personally did not need to kill Vashj 25 times. Everyone in the Raid had to kill either 1 time. in an 25 (!!) man Raid
    True dat, but as a guy who was raiding back then, I am sure glad this shit is no longer a thing.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    True dat, but as a guy who was raiding back then, I am sure glad this shit is no longer a thing.
    Well yeah. Attunements where fun at first but they should have opened it up after BT was opened.
    I remember having to run the old raids every week just to get the new recruits attuned.

    But i still think they are kinda fun. Immersion and stuff.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    This is the laziest strawman imaginable.

    ~~~~~~~

    Yes, timegates are bad.
    Calls someone lazy, then proceeds to make the laziest contribution to the topic yet....

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    FFXIV has virtually zero timegating outside of gear and some things and its still flourishing.


    Why?

    Because the rest of the game is compelling enough to where once you get BiS you can enjoy the fruits of your labor because there's a lot of vanity stuff to do.



    WoW suffers when there's no timegating because they devote very little of the game to vanity, it makes sense why they have to timegate everything, because if that weren't the case people would quit or get bored, I agree with this.



    The solution is just to make the rest of the non-gear ladder oriented parts of the game fun to do.
    I have to agree with this one.

    When I have my BiS list in final, I have tons to do alone with crafting and housing. In wow, I just roll, yeah another twink probably
    (but you probably have to differentiate between them a little because you can do everything on one character)

    Currently doing my third cloak questline in wow, can't bear too see those scenarios again..


    And before someone jumps at me, I'm playing both games actively.

  6. #66
    yes it really bad. Nothing is Worse then when you really into playing something and you hit a hard limit of "now wait 1 week" it really kills your drive and the fun of it.

  7. #67
    When its stuff like the legendary cloak being restricting to one rank per week, I don't think its bad.. If you could just turbo nerd it from rank 1-15, then people would bitch that feel "forced" to grind coalescing visions day out and day in to reach rank 15 for when the raid opened.

    But too much timegating is bad definitely.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    If everything can be done as fast as you want in, say 8.3, how much fun would that really be? Grind one weekend of Visions to get rank 15 of the cloak. Grind one week Mobs for the currency to buy the entrance. Or get rid of the currency completly so you don't have to do content at all.
    So you are done with everything in two days tops.

    You will force everyone who wants to stay in the game to do the same if they want to stay competitive at all. I honestly don't think that that would be good for the game as a whole.
    I personally agree with you. Timegates allow players to take their time on content instead of simply trying to rush through it in order to get to the rewards ASAP. This is important in an MMO where the game is about immersion, about exploring, reading quest text etc.

    To me one of the most obvious missing timegates in recent times has been Pathfinder part II. Pathfinder part I was a completely unstressful achievement to get. We literally had a year to get it done, and most people got it within a few months anyway. Then they finally introduce flying with a straight up requirement of doing a rep grind in Nazjatar and Mechagon in order to unlock flying everywhere. So instead of players taking their time to savour the content, it was all about rushing it, grinding, playing it to death for an insane 2 weeks - by which time most people hated it.

    It would have been far more sensible to release a short 10-15 minute questline to enable flying in Kul Tiras and Zandalar for those with Pathfinder Part I and put a 4-6 week timegate on flying in Nazjatar/Mechagon (or else remove the grind requirement altogether). That way people could have taken their time in the zones and do them at a pace determined by what is most enjoyable rather than what will get them to flying the fastest.



    Obviously timegating for the sake of getting people to stay subbed longer isn't good either, but in all honesty, I don't see that much in WoW, and IMO most of the complaints about artificial timegating just to get more subs are reliant on conspiracy theory type reasoning. Granted, I am not the kind of player who likes gorging on content so that I can be done and then unsubscribe. I find that WoW has so much to do in it that when I am done with the timegated stuff, there is always more than enough other stuff to get to.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    They have literally been time gating stuff in WoW since 2004. What the hell are you talking about acting like it's a recent thing? LOL
    Time-gating being attached to literally everything in the game?

    No. That hasn't been the case since 2004. Are you turning into a pathological liar like your god and saviour Ion?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    if they timegate stuff, people complain about it and accuse Blizzard of timegating so they can keep subs going.

    if they don't timegate stuff, people complain about it and accuse Blizzard of not having enough content for them to do.

    Blizzard cannot win.
    In fairness, there's a line between the both of them. Either its horrendously gated or theres a complete lack of content at end game bar raiding.

    TBC was bursting with content to do constantly. It was structured good enough that freshly dinged 70s couldn't jump straight into BT. That kept every piece of content relevant. In addition to that, there was plenty to do daily wise, netherwing, nether rays etc. Then Quel dunas released. Plenty of dailies, farming, new dungeon etc.

    This disappeared in Wrath - but we had plenty of replacement content. For example the Argent tournament. Don't get me wrong I wasn't overly fond of it, but it was content and it was well done.

    Cata started to get interested, in Hyjal we saw how a zone can slowly change over time to match the story. But in my opinion the changes were too massive and missing a few things out could really screw people.

    From MoP onwards everything started to go down hill really. End game felt like it was solely focused on raiding. Then WoD launched, while I wouldn't call anything particularly gated; they did screw up pathfinder. It was far to much to unlock over far to long of a period. Take me for example (Aye I know, I'm not the center of the universe) I couldn't play until part way through HFC release. At which point pathfinder was simply to much to catch up on, but that also meant I could achieve nothing in the jungle as everyone would just fly somewhere and mobs would be dead way before I got there.

    Legion felt a lot better to me, but I played from launch and I made sure to stick on top of everything. BFA seems to have gone backwards.

    It just seems like blizzard can't find the sweet spot right now
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  11. #71
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    if they timegate stuff, people complain about it and accuse Blizzard of timegating so they can keep subs going.

    if they don't timegate stuff, people complain about it and accuse Blizzard of not having enough content for them to do.

    Blizzard cannot win.
    Remember when Blizzard didn't hand out welfare and catchup 24/7 therefore never needed artificial time gating? ppl called it Elitist. Those same casuals turn around and complain about content drought now.

    LMAO It's true Blizzard can't win.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  12. #72
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    Players have the tendency to commit to a goal past their well-being, so in that sense nanny-like gating is called for. Remember MoP's initial daily rush? Blizz removed the daily quest cap and told us to go nuts; people did exactly that and a lot of them burned out.

    As for release gating (e.g. LFR wings) that's fine too, gives me an excellent reason to take a break from the game.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  13. #73
    Yes timegates are always bad. No exception.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    that is impossible, to give you that many quests, would be impossible.

    heres a practice, try to write a book faster then people can read it.
    now keep it interesting, making sense, and without errors.
    now do that forever.
    see how long you can do that for, see how long it takes for someone to catch up to you, and then go "wow this book is over there is no more writing"
    well guess what, the second you type 1 word people will already be ahead.


    making content takes far, far longer then it does to consume it.
    movies take thousands to tens of thouands of hours to make.
    but are viewed in only 90 minutes.
    I know it works like this but they could write long stories in Vanilla.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  15. #75
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    I know it works like this but they could write long stories in Vanilla.
    no, not at all.
    vanilla the quests were super short, and far apart, it was specificly known for this.
    the quest lasted long not because they were large, had tons of lore, and there was many.
    it was cause 1 quest could take hours to do.
    we all remember the quests like collect zevra hooves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Being racist is not wrong. It is a lifestyle that you don't approve of. Being racist isn't even illegal, and it never will be.
    LOOKA THIS BOI!

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    It's funny that you use that particular example, because in this case, the soft timegating basically informs the hard one.

    Cloak upgrades being capped would be a hard timegate, naturally. But if that timegate wasn't there, then the soft one would become problematic. People would see that they could technically farm vessels and therefore cloak upgrades in an unlimited fashion - and therefore feel that they need to do so asap. Because that's how a lot of players approach these things. That's why people complain about the AP grind so much. Guilds would require their members to get to cloak lvl X on week one or be benched, etc.

    As someone who never really gave into the farming pressure since I don't have the time to hardcore raid anymore, I personally can live with this sort of time-gating. Though I would like more vessels available to do more visions when I do have the time.
    Yeah, that's the dilemma. Would like the cloak to not be timegated by force but rather let the visions be the gate. Per OP request I'm ignoring balance etc of content. It's difficult!
    Well met!

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    no, not at all.
    vanilla the quests were super short, and far apart, it was specificly known for this.
    the quest lasted long not because they were large, had tons of lore, and there was many.
    it was cause 1 quest could take hours to do.
    we all remember the quests like collect zevra hooves.
    I despise this kind of quests.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  18. #78
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    I despise this kind of quests.
    And that is MOST of vanilla's quests.
    i hate them too though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire View Post
    Yeah, that's the dilemma. Would like the cloak to not be timegated by force but rather let the visions be the gate. Per OP request I'm ignoring balance etc of content. It's difficult!
    if it was just visions, then blizz would be in more trouble, cause the horde gets less of them then alliance, and people would complain their PVE progress is locked behind PVP, as a LOT of visions come from PVP (Warmode 25-30% bonus for alliance. and daily bounty giving 500)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Being racist is not wrong. It is a lifestyle that you don't approve of. Being racist isn't even illegal, and it never will be.
    LOOKA THIS BOI!

  19. #79
    Depends on the where the timegating is. And usually yes it's bad.

  20. #80
    I'd rather no time gates so I can finish it then play alts after my main char is basically just raid-logging.

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