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  1. #141
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    He didnt call them "timegates"...but tell me...what are they?
    They are timegated content, are they not?

    He called them "chores" or something, cant remember was a while ago.
    Cause do we call
    1. daily heroic dungeon/weekly mythic dungeon lockouts timegating?
    2. weekly raid lockouts timegating?
    3. patch releases timegated?
    4. crafting cooldown is that timegating?
    5. is requiring you to grind reps timegating?
    6. is locking reps behind dailies timegating?
    7. is locking raids behind reps timegating?
    8. is locking raids behind attunemnts timegating?

    he was listing things that "to be optimal" he had to do EVERY WEEK and he did not like having to keep up with so much stuff. That has NOTHING to do with timegating. nor was he complaining about them.

    btw the chores thing is literally he says "there is so much to do every week if you want to keep up with everything, your not needed to do it, but your inclined to, and my friends atleast call them chores"
    he does mention carrot on a stick and such soon after, but that is to do with dailies, something that has always been and always will be a huge part of every mmo.
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  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson

    i'm on the other fence where i've lost all my interest in wow because blizz gated 8.3 too much. visions made me feel the need to farm every daily quest and even though it only takes about an hour each day, it just starts to wear me down and i don't even care anymore that i find the visions fun. i don't get enough fun from the amount of work i need to put in for that system. so no, timegating isn't bad, it's just how blizz does it.
    That was me with the mage tower.

    I loved proving grounds on my tank. I could spend hours in there trying to perfect my strategy for endless.

    But you could do endless attempts there. You could learn by doing not by reading the forums.

    I only stopped doing it when my best attempt was around 45 levels meaning it took 45 minutes, too long to keep bothering.

    I should have been a prime candidate for the mage tower. I did a total of one attempt, because you needed to do quests to farm currency to buy into the tower. In that attempt I died about 10 seconds in to a mechanic I didn’t know that auto killed me.

    Grind dailies for 30 minutes to spend 10 seconds in the tower? Nope, byyyyeeee....
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    There are no timegates in Diablo 3, and the content locusts devoured it all and then quit long ago.
    ...yeah....THATS the reason why we all quit D3.... timegating...... /eyeroll

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    That was me with the mage tower.

    I loved proving grounds on my tank. I could spend hours in there trying to perfect my strategy for endless.

    But you could do endless attempts there. You could learn by doing not by reading the forums.

    I only stopped doing it when my best attempt was around 45 levels meaning it took 45 minutes, too long to keep bothering.

    I should have been a prime candidate for the mage tower. I did a total of one attempt, because you needed to do quests to farm currency to buy into the tower. In that attempt I died about 10 seconds in to a mechanic I didn’t know that auto killed me.

    Grind dailies for 30 minutes to spend 10 seconds in the tower? Nope, byyyyeeee....
    It took you 30 min to get enough for a mage tower attempt? The fuck were you doing? Having your cat play your toon while blindfolded and dumping all your gear in the bank?

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    dailies, something that has always been and always will be a huge part of every mmo.
    The following time periods in wow did not have dailies/dailies could be mostly ignored:

    Wrath during ICC
    Cata
    MoP during soo
    WoD

    I probably accumulated 80-90% of my total wow playtime during those periods.

    The daily heavy periods were:

    First patch mop
    Legion
    BFA

    It’s interesting however that there’s not a huge correlation between presence of dailies and perception of the game. People hated dailies on MoP and loved them in Legion. Personally I’ve always hated them so color me confused.

    That said, arguing that dailies are always a part of every mmo is questionable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    ...yeah....THATS the reason why we all quit D3.... timegating...... /eyeroll

    - - - Updated - - -



    It took you 30 min to get enough for a mage tower attempt? The fuck were you doing? Having your cat play your toon while blindfolded and dumping all your gear in the bank?
    Lol maybe it wasn’t thirty minutes, but I hated dailies so much that I wasn’t going to grind them to get more. Whole thing was just a big nope.

    Let’s remember how stupid the dailies were on Broken Shore too. I just ran around tagging as many things as I could until the quests were done. What awful content!
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  5. #145
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    The following time periods in wow did not have dailies/dailies could be mostly ignored:

    Wrath during ICC
    Cata
    MoP during soo
    WoD
    I love how you chose literally the times when Dailies were the heaviest.
    Wrath during icc- You needed to do your dailies to get your shoulder enchants. You also needed to do your daily heroic dungeon for your badges. You also needed to do the your argent crusade dailies, aswell as any reps you had not yet finished.

    Cata- lol, they had tons of dailies, tol barad dailies were all over the isle of tol barad, and were quite annoying. Aswell as the molten front having its dailies, and boy oh boy were those fun.

    Mop during Soo- yes, during one patch, but dont forget if you just returned to the game, you would still need to do all the old reps dailies, its not like SOO suddenly removed all of those dailies that still needed to be done for new/returning players.

    Wod- Wod had a fair bit of daly quest content, although not as much as many others, but that is because most of its daily content was stuck in the garrison, the daily apexsis, the daily garrison stuff, the daily inn quests, the daily
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
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  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Cause do we call
    1. daily heroic dungeon/weekly mythic dungeon lockouts timegating?
    2. weekly raid lockouts timegating?
    3. patch releases timegated?
    4. crafting cooldown is that timegating?
    5. is requiring you to grind reps timegating?
    6. is locking reps behind dailies timegating?
    7. is locking raids behind reps timegating?
    8. is locking raids behind attunemnts timegating?
    1. daily heroic dungeon/weekly mythic dungeon lockouts timegating? yes, since vanilla there is timegating things, just not as much as today
    2. weekly raid lockouts timegating? yes
    3. patch releases timegated? lets not get creative here
    4. crafting cooldown is that timegating? yes
    5. is requiring you to grind reps timegating? if they are locked behind dailies like in BfA...yes
    6. is locking reps behind dailies timegating? there you go...yes
    7. is locking raids behind reps timegating? depends...how can you farm the rep? can you do it all day? everyday? If so...No
    8. is locking raids behind attunemnts timegating? Is the attunement timagated? Its pretty easy really

  7. #147
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    Thanks again for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion other than thinly veiled insults and vague deflections in the name of Blizzard. Guess you've gotta get your 33k post history from somewhere.
    Except I did nothing like you say and you don't even ask simple honest question and instead just flame. Didn't even defend time gates. I am saying they have always been a part of WoW. And some of them I found worse in the past than what we get today.

    Yeah..that is where I get my 33k posts from. Agreeing and disagreeing. Only people like you cannot stomach disagreement and live with people having a different opinion. No...you must besmirch that into defending Blizzard.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    I love how you chose literally the times when Dailies were the heaviest.
    Wrath during icc- You needed to do your dailies to get your shoulder enchants. You also needed to do your daily heroic dungeon for your badges. You also needed to do the your argent crusade dailies, aswell as any reps you had not yet finished.

    Cata- lol, they had tons of dailies, tol barad dailies were all over the isle of tol barad, and were quite annoying. Aswell as the molten front having its dailies, and boy oh boy were those fun.

    Mop during Soo- yes, during one patch, but dont forget if you just returned to the game, you would still need to do all the old reps dailies, its not like SOO suddenly removed all of those dailies that still needed to be done for new/returning players.

    Wod- Wod had a fair bit of daly quest content, although not as much as many others, but that is because most of its daily content was stuck in the garrison, the daily apexsis, the daily garrison stuff, the daily inn quests, the daily
    When I hear "dailies" I think of daily quests, not dungeons (I didn't like daily dungeons either but they fixed that early in Cata). I barely did any during all the times periods you mentioned and I was fine. Can't skip stuff like that now.

    Shoulder enchant during ICC was very quick, you did the quest chain in a few hours, then during ICC rep was sped up by 30% and you could just buy it with the triumph badges that were otherwise not too useful at that point. Argent Crusade was just wearing a tabard during your dungeon and raid runs.

    In Cata I never did Tol Barad, I got the valor point and the darkmoon trinkets for healing and I was fine. I didn't do Molten Front either... the gear was 365 and I was decked out in 359 at that point so whatever.

    SOO - why did you need to do the old dailies? You didn't need the gear anymore, you just went to Timeless Isle. No one did the WoD dailies either, the apexis gear was crap.

    I was never a top tier raider but I always cleared the raid on the second highest difficulty level, often on multiple toons, and occasionally dipped my toe into the top difficulty, which puts me in like the top 20% or so of players. I guess what I'd rephrase to is, they used to be somewhat optional and you weren't super gimped if you didn't do them, but recently it's felt like the whole game is daily chores.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  9. #149
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    1. daily heroic dungeon/weekly mythic dungeon lockouts timegating? yes, since vanilla there is timegating things, just not as much as today
    2. weekly raid lockouts timegating? yes
    3. patch releases timegated? lets not get creative here
    4. crafting cooldown is that timegating? yes
    5. is requiring you to grind reps timegating? if they are locked behind dailies like in BfA...yes
    6. is locking reps behind dailies timegating? there you go...yes
    7. is locking raids behind reps timegating? depends...how can you farm the rep? can you do it all day? everyday? If so...No
    8. is locking raids behind attunemnts timegating? Is the attunement timagated? Its pretty easy really
    Well..ofc while we might or might not agree...it all deflects from the question of this thread.."Are timegates really bad?"

    Is a weekly raid lockout "bad" and if so ..why. What would be the consequences if there was no lockout

    Same with daily heroics, crafting cooldowns, endless dailies. Is it really bad that there is a restriction on how much you can do. Because one thing I know is that when you could theoretically endlessly farm AP initially ...people complained how they were "being forced" to just do that.

    As for point 5: "is requiring you to grind reps timegating? if they are locked behind dailies like in BfA...yes" don't blame that on BfA alone...and even if you do..again..why is that "bad"?

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well..ofc while we might or might not agree...it all deflects from the question of this thread.."Are timegates really bad?"

    Is a weekly raid lockout "bad" and if so ..why. What would be the consequences if there was no lockout

    Same with daily heroics, crafting cooldowns, endless dailies. Is it really bad that there is a restriction on how much you can do. Because one thing I know is that when you could theoretically endlessly farm AP initially ...people complained how they were "being forced" to just do that.

    As for point 5: "is requiring you to grind reps timegating? if they are locked behind dailies like in BfA...yes" don't blame that on BfA alone...and even if you do..again..why is that "bad"?
    IMO they are bad and painful. Let me do it at my pace...whatever that means. Everyone is different.

    But just to be clear i need to further explain myself.

    A timegate is when Blizzard imposes a restriction on how much you can farm. Mainly caps and lockouts
    Examples of something NOT having a timegate:
    -Timbermaw reputation farm and every single rep that only required a tabard to farm. (you could do it all day everyday without restrictions)

    And...mainly is just the dailies nowadays that are messing us up...because A LOT of things are locked behind dailies/weeklies.
    Want an essense? Timegated with daily/weekly restrictions
    Want an allied race?
    Want flying and you came up late into the expansion? bad luck bro
    Want pvp gear? Is much much more timegated now and random

    Thats the main difference from "back then" and now".

  11. #151
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Thats the main difference from "back then" and now".
    I might be wrong here...but daily heroic lockouts existed in TBC, right? Then there was the literal timegating of the portal to bosses in SWP. Not sure if we can get an agreement on the rep for the Netherwind drakes. Mainly it was dailies, but I guess you technically could hunt eggs the whole day...the amount of ppl who did it however made it frustrating.

    Limited attempts on bosses in ICC etc etc. But I agree on one thing, as I said earlier: There is more timegating now because there is also more to do. I know..I know..unpopular opinion with the ppl claiming we don't get content...(but really there were no Island Expeditions, Warfronts, Mythic+, Horrific visions equivalents through many of the older x-pacs. Looking back...I have no clue what I would have done if I didn't raid or pvp fro....Vanilla to Cata at max level)

    Not saying I am happy with how it is. Like I said earlier...progression in a zone towards a goal worked fine with me in 8.2. In 8.3 the screws are tightened in a way that frustrates me. At this point I don't even gather the rep for any rewards other than chalking two more up towards 100 exalted reps.

    As for "bad and painful" - I respect your opinion. For me however nothing was ever as "bad and painful" as the TBC rep and attunement clusterfuck.

    Going into Shadowlands...I wonder if maybe some of the peeps here aren't in for a rude awakening. Ever since Pathfinder was introduced, I think Blizzard found the carrot that does keep ppl playing. And I would be surprised if aren't getting more of the same.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Limited attempts on bosses in ICC etc etc. But I agree on one thing, as I said earlier: There is more timegating now because there is also more to do. I know..I know..unpopular opinion with the ppl claiming we don't get content...(but really there were no Island Expeditions, Warfronts, Mythic+, Horrific visions equivalents through many of the older x-pacs. Looking back...I have no clue what I would have done if I didn't raid or pvp fro....Vanilla to Cata at max level)
    Thats true, in my opinion at least, but...the unfortunate part is that i want everything i listed...and every single thing is heavily timegated to the point that i feel im on a leash created by Blizzard.

    Yes...the timegates on essense, allied races, flying and pvp gear (ALL things i want) are realllllly infuriating to me.
    Because im the type of person that is "random" when it comes to "wanting to play the game".
    I dont want to be on a leash everyday.

    And if i dont play everyday and do the "cap" / "lockout" daily like a good boy...i get heavily punished.
    Thats mainly how i feel.

    I can do "all nighters" some days...and dont play for a day or 2 next.
    This type of play is heavily punished. You MUST be on a leash everyday and be a good boy.
    Last edited by Shadoowpunk; 2020-02-22 at 07:27 PM.

  13. #153
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    it's how they are implemented and whether they stack. If *everything* is time gated and it implemented poorly, then, yeah they are bad.

    Think about the Legion 7.2 patch with the chain on Broken Shore. Weekly time gates but most of the weekly quests were trivial and told no story. That was badly done. Now consider the Suramar chain... also weekly time gates but done well and with a pretty decent story.

    Or think about when we've had valor points or the equivalent in the past. Sometimes they've been limited daily, other times weekly. The daily limits were bad because if you didnt login every day and get whatever VP you could, you fell behind. Weekly limits worked better, since you could login every day OR if your schedule didnt allow that, you could do long sessions a couple of times each week.

  14. #154
    It feels awful to be working towards a goal in any video game and being told after like an hour of playing "that's all the progress you can make for today, go play another game and come back tomorrow". That's the kind of game design you expect from a mobile game where they ask you if you want to pay real money to make progress instead of waiting until tomorrow. Except in WoW you can't even do that, it's somehow even worse.

    After hitting that wall every single day too many times, eventually you just get fed up and say "fine, I will just go play this other game instead of WoW for good then". It's bad game design to try to coax people into playing other games while they wait for arbitrary time gates to make more progress in your game.

    It was fine to time gate gear, you felt like you had to wait to gain more power. Time gating big and important features like flight or new races? Feels absolutely terrible. You feel like you can't do anything else in the game unless you get flight unlocked first, and you completely lose all motivation to make a new character if it takes you a month of doing daily chores every day to finally play one. It's bad game design, period.

  15. #155
    Timegates aren't an evil concept, it all depends on the context. There is successful timegates and unsucessful ones. Suramar, thunder isle, horrific visions are examples of successful timegates. Suramar had a big chunk in the beginning, with further story being shown at rep intervals (which is time) with solid end points. In contrast, argus is considered a pretty bad time gate, because the story was an overarching one, with actual weekly timegates, which felt like interruptions to a story instead of points of a story. Horrific visions is timegated content because you only get so much a week and can't complete the system, but skill can push how far you get/how good the rewards are for doing. Corruption gear has multiple timegating elements, such as the amount of corruption you can wear depends on corruption resistance, but it has levels of acceptable negatives which depends on skill/class limitations/encounter, which is alright. The bad timegating is the way corruption roles with multiple types of corruption affix, with tiers of strength, and tiers of corruption. While you can rng the BIS corruption, with having so many variables the time to get all the best is inflated, which IMO feels bad, especially when the system has other limitations said above like corruption resistance/skill/encounter/class limitation. And as timegating is based on time there is a subjective element of how long are you willing to wait. Are you willing to do netherwing dailies every day for weeks or grind eggs,etc.

  16. #156
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Thats true, in my opinion at least, but...the unfortunate part is that i want everything i listed...and every single thing is heavily timegated to the point that i feel im on a leash created by Blizzard.

    Yes...the timegates on essense, allied races, flying and pvp gear (ALL things i want) are realllllly infuriating to me.
    Because im the type of person that is "random" when it comes to "wanting to play the game".
    I dont want to be on a leash everyday.

    And if i dont play everyday and do the "cap" / "lockout" daily like a good boy...i get heavily punished.
    Thats mainly how i feel.

    I can do "all nighters" some days...and dont play for a day or 2 next.
    This type of play is heavily punished. You MUST be on a leash everyday and be a good boy.
    Well...I don't agree with the "You MUST be on a leash everyday and be a good boy" part...but at the end of the day you provide the clue in "I can do "all nighters" some days...and dont play for a day or 2 next.". We all play in different ways and want to accomplish different things. I don't think any game design can please all of those preferences. If you ever had a time in WoW where it suited you best....there were others raging how it was the worst to them.

  17. #157
    You know what was one of the high points of BfA for me?

    Farming the Battleground PvP essense...one of the only non-timegated things in the game.
    It was a high point for me because i got RANK 4...yes, i went for the rank 4, rank 3 was too easy, in less than a week.
    I felt awesome farming at my pace and even sometimes doing all nighters.

    You know what happened to allied races, flying, some other essenses and pvp gear? (heavily timegated content)
    I gave up and didnt even STARTED doing them.

    Because in my brain i knew i had to go through the process of being on a leash for days/week/month. And i hate that process.

    What i mean is:
    The rank 4 pvp essense made me love the game. Which is an example of non-timegated content feeling amazing.
    All other timegated things i gave up instantly just from the idea of having to play the game a certain way (the Blizzard's way)
    So FOR ME...timegates = bad
    For others? Well...if Blizzard is using/abusing them...is because they probably work as intended.

  18. #158
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    You know what was one of the high points of BfA for me?

    Farming the Battleground PvP essense...one of the only non-timegated things in the game.
    It was a high point for me because i got RANK 4...yes, i went for the rank 4, rank 3 was too easy, in less than a week.
    I felt awesome farming at my pace and even sometimes doing all nighters.

    You know what happened to allied races, flying, some other essenses and pvp gear? (heavily timegated content)
    I gave up and didnt even STARTED doing them.

    Because in my brain i knew i had to go through the process of being on a leash for days/week/month. And i hate that process.

    What i mean is:
    The rank 4 pvp essense made me love the game. Which is an example of non-timegated content feeling amazing.
    All other timegated things i gave up instantly just from the idea of having to play the game a certain way (the Blizzard's way)
    So FOR ME...timegates = bad
    For others? Well...if Blizzard is using/abusing them...is because they probably work as intended.
    Fair point. I mean..since we are into telling our stories...I actually invested into unlocking all Allied races (though I had no intention to do mythic Mechagon, I just gambled on them making it heroic eventually and it paid off). I don't really care for getting all essences and apparently it will bite me in the ass because some are "mandatory" for pushing visions...but really I don't care

    Flying? meh..that stuff for me just came by playing the game. Did I like it "better" the way it was in WotLK or MoP..sure..because at my heart I am lazy.

    But no matter what..you always play the game "the Blizzard way" - even when they offer you the path that you like

  19. #159
    Mechagnome Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    You know what was one of the high points of BfA for me?

    Farming the Battleground PvP essense...one of the only non-timegated things in the game.
    It was a high point for me because i got RANK 4...yes, i went for the rank 4, rank 3 was too easy, in less than a week.
    I felt awesome farming at my pace and even sometimes doing all nighters.

    You know what happened to allied races, flying, some other essenses and pvp gear? (heavily timegated content)
    I gave up and didnt even STARTED doing them.

    Because in my brain i knew i had to go through the process of being on a leash for days/week/month. And i hate that process.

    What i mean is:
    The rank 4 pvp essense made me love the game. Which is an example of non-timegated content feeling amazing.
    All other timegated things i gave up instantly just from the idea of having to play the game a certain way (the Blizzard's way)
    So FOR ME...timegates = bad
    For others? Well...if Blizzard is using/abusing them...is because they probably work as intended.


    See that's how I feel too.



    Essences like VoP and BotE feel good because they all can be gotten to rank 3 in one day if you're really no-lifing it, but its entirely at your own pace. It encourages playing the game constantly because you are chipping away at your goal piece by piece whether you want to go at it all day or not at all some days.


    Whereas rep-locked essences just feel like trash to do.
    Honorary member of the Baine fanclub, the only member really.

  20. #160
    Doesn't have to be but the way Blizzard does it now is so fucking awful.

    Drip Feed one quest at a time over the course of months and by the end of the War Campaign I don't even remember what it was about.
    Hi Sephurik

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