Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Dh and Monk debuff overhaul

    in Shadowlands, would you guys like it if instead of having the DH and monk applying their +5% inflicted damage on the target, this skill was instead given to all tanks?

    - [pal, dk, dh] -> magical debuff
    - [war, monk, drood] -> physical debuff.

    And then why not have a food/elixir/enchant/scroll for them to apply the other one instead

  2. #2
    I honestly don't think buffs/debuffs were needed. Of all the things to unprune, I far rather have useful utilities than buffs with guaranteed uptime.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  3. #3
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Frogspoison#1419 Battletag
    Posts
    6,681
    Just bring us back to WoD buffs and debuffs - Everybody brings at least 1 buff or debuff, some ppl bring 2, and a few bring 3.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I honestly don't think buffs/debuffs were needed. Of all the things to unprune, I far rather have useful utilities than buffs with guaranteed uptime.
    They aren't they are a archaic remnant of TBC style debuffs that were brought back in to try to make them more widely played or something..... (usual reason I cant see it being this main reason though)

    Damage should not be reliant wholely on whether you have certain classes within the raid setup especially in regards to on target 100% uptime debuffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Equim View Post
    I really don't see anything wrong with playing what you enjoy. Be it Frost, Fire, Arcane or Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Salystra View Post
    They aren't they are a archaic remnant of TBC style debuffs that were brought back in to try to make them more widely played or something..... (usual reason I cant see it being this main reason though)

    Damage should not be reliant wholely on whether you have certain classes within the raid setup especially in regards to on target 100% uptime debuffs.
    That's the issue that needs to get ironed out: their debuffs are so important/powerful that you'd be silly not to bring one (especially in a raid setting). If they're going to stick with a buff/debuff theme, that's fine, but they need to make it not part of a scheme to bring specific classes. If anything, if the only reason your bringing a class to your group is because of a buff/debuff and nothing else they contribute, that's a serious balancing issue.

    On my wish list for M+: bring back the system that let you have all the relevant buffs automatically when in a challenge mode. I think it was in MoP where you'd automatically get buffed with things like PW:Fort while in a CM. May make the scribe crowd a little sad, but I'd compromise if the scribes could provide full power buffs with their scrolls instead of partial ones. And/or they could change how the scrolls work, and instead of literally just buffing they create an aura around the user providing the buff to your group/raid that don't disappear on death (assuming phase splitting wouldn't screw it up). Heck, make other buffs kind of like auras for consistency, anything to help alleviate the status quo.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #6
    CMs/M+ do need an overhaul, base buffs should be available for all and I say that as a mage, INT is a very powerful tool for caster/heal

    Exceptions of course being lust or any other specific temp buffs.


    I just don't get blizz of latter years as since TBC they stated numerous times bring the player not the class, reduce dailies/grind to avoid burnout and now under activision its like *&^% it reversion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Equim View Post
    I really don't see anything wrong with playing what you enjoy. Be it Frost, Fire, Arcane or Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finding a stranger in the alps.
    Posts
    3,497
    Every class should have a single unique buff.

    DK - vers
    DH - 5% magic debuff
    Druid - avoidance
    Hunter - speed
    mage - spell power
    monk - 5% physical debuff
    paladin - mastery
    priest - stamina
    rogue - crit
    shaman - haste
    warlock - leech
    warrior - attack power
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2020-02-21 at 09:58 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Every class should have a single unique buff.

    DK - vers
    DH - 5% magic debuff
    Druid - avoidance
    Hunter - speed
    mage - spell power
    monk - 5% physical debuff
    paladin - mastery
    priest - stamina
    rogue - crit
    shaman - haste
    warlock - leech
    warrior - attack power
    I'm not really for this approach, because people will look down on some of those buffs as very much inferior to others and some will shine way more.
    I would much rather have something powerful and shared by multiple classes. You're suggesting something unique but not that distinctive and on top of that something that will definitely be creating issues

  9. #9
    I'd rather have buffs like the mage/lock one that proc'd off other people's abilities. The names escape me right now.

  10. #10
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    The House of All Worlds
    Posts
    10,743
    I dislike the idea of unique class buffs. 5% damage as an example is pretty massive, especially across an entire raid's worth of dps, so it makes that class mandatory which is just bad design imo. It's better to give each class a unique, useful utility instead. Make every class useful, but not required.

  11. #11
    I was ok with Wrath model.
    [1] R5 3600 4.2GHz | NH-D14 (AM4 Mod) | ROG Strix B350-F (VRM Mod) | Vengeance 16GB 3000MHz CL15 | RX 5700 XT Pulse | 860 EVO 500GB | SuperNOVA 650 G2 | Eclipse P400A
    [2] i7 2600k 4.7GHz | Mugen 5 Rev.B | P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3 | Vengeance 16GB 1600MHz CL9 | RX 580 8Gb Nitro+ | MX500 500GB | M12II Evo 620W | S340-Bk
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I'd rather lose with Biden then try with Bernard.

  12. #12
    Warchief Beet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Who me?
    Posts
    2,028
    Quote Originally Posted by Salystra View Post
    They aren't they are a archaic remnant of TBC style debuffs that were brought back in to try to make them more widely played or something..... (usual reason I cant see it being this main reason though)

    Damage should not be reliant wholely on whether you have certain classes within the raid setup especially in regards to on target 100% uptime debuffs.
    Yeah god forbid we have the classes be unique and each bring something different to the table.

    I’d rather go back to every class having special buffs or debuffs. WotLK and TBC had it done well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    I dislike the idea of unique class buffs. 5% damage as an example is pretty massive, especially across an entire raid's worth of dps, so it makes that class mandatory which is just bad design imo. It's better to give each class a unique, useful utility instead. Make every class useful, but not required.
    It isn’t required though. You don’t have to have it to kill a boss. It’s a benefit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Every class should have a single unique buff.

    DK - vers
    DH - 5% magic debuff
    Druid - avoidance
    Hunter - speed
    mage - spell power
    monk - 5% physical debuff
    paladin - mastery
    priest - stamina
    rogue - crit
    shaman - haste
    warlock - leech
    warrior - attack power
    Yep you got the right idea. The way things used to be. It was pretty cool. And you felt so useful as like a shadow priest or hunter bringing replenishment
    T

  13. #13
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    6,486
    Such powerful debuffs need to be given to 2 classes atleast.

    Just dh with magic debuff for example is just stupid, i mean give it to dk and lock aswell, it was their debuff to begin with.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  14. #14
    blizzard a fucking retarded when it comes to buffs/debuffs let be honest here.

    Shamans brought too much that blizzard had to cut it back in the way off buffs and support and handed it out to others, WoD was the turning point where you could tell blizzard went full retard and has never stopped being retarded. "we gave hunters/mages aspect of the fox & amplify magic to justify bringing those classes otherwise no-one would want them in the raid group"

    Yeah so if thats your view blizzard, why have you given some classes like shaman absolutely nothing at all? shamans bring no buffs, don't say lust because drums exist, the truly valuable buffs are ones you cannot have consumable for.

    I mean how the fuck do Monks & DH's bring more to a group than a shaman who 15 years ago bought so much? the imbalance is just ridiculous.

    Proof? look at m+ representation DH DH DH, shit a good group is 3 DH, they've in their "wisdom" (i dont think they have any) decided some classes need everything, but some should have nothing and thats ok.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Such powerful debuffs need to be given to atleast 2 classes at least.

    Just dh with magic debuff for example is just stupid, i mean give it to dk and lock aswell, it was their debuff to begin with.
    Yeah maybe shamans could get something back, str totem, windfury, poison/disease dispel totem, melee or ranged haste, 10% spellpower.

    How did they lose all that to only have lust, while mages bring lust & 10% int, what is this bullshit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    It isn’t required though. You don’t have to have it to kill a boss. It’s a benefit.
    I'm sorry what raid group is going to progress a difficult boss for them, be it normal n'zoth, heroic n'zoth or 5th boss in mythic, lacking a DH? sorry casters we've got a shit setup today -5% damage for all of you, you have someone bring their DH alt, even if he/she does half their mains dps, nearly the entire raid has some kind of magic damage outside of like warrior/rogue/WW, even paladins/dks benefit from 5% magic damage. Then there's essences do these scale with magic damage, corruption does that gain 5% magic damage? It's just too much to lose.

  15. #15
    I think maybe the buffs and debuffs should just not be usable in a raid setting. It's fun to throw a buff on a passerby to say thank you and help them out, and it's nice to run in and help someone fighting something and give it a debuff so you both can help kill it faster, but it isn't cool if these things are necessary in raids.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I honestly don't think buffs/debuffs were needed. Of all the things to unprune, I far rather have useful utilities than buffs with guaranteed uptime.
    or they could change it every season and give it to the least played specs as an incentive to bring under-utilized specs

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Every class should have a single unique buff.

    DK - vers
    DH - 5% magic debuff
    Druid - avoidance
    Hunter - speed
    mage - spell power
    monk - 5% physical debuff
    paladin - mastery
    priest - stamina
    rogue - crit
    shaman - haste
    warlock - leech
    warrior - attack power
    The problem with uniqueness is that some buffs as others have now said above is some are very impactful on your chance to succeed (spell power/spell damage/physical damage being the outliers)

    I would be more an advocate for uniqueness of a class BUT not at the expense of bringing a class just to fill a gap and that's the hardest part to get right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Equim View Post
    I really don't see anything wrong with playing what you enjoy. Be it Frost, Fire, Arcane or Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Every class should have a single unique buff.

    DK - vers
    DH - 5% magic debuff
    Druid - avoidance
    Hunter - speed
    mage - spell power
    monk - 5% physical debuff
    paladin - mastery
    priest - stamina
    rogue - crit
    shaman - haste
    warlock - leech
    warrior - attack power
    God not like this.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Astera
    Posts
    3,935
    Quote Originally Posted by Salystra View Post
    They aren't they are a archaic remnant of TBC style debuffs that were brought back in to try to make them more widely played or something..... (usual reason I cant see it being this main reason though)

    Damage should not be reliant wholely on whether you have certain classes within the raid setup especially in regards to on target 100% uptime debuffs.
    It was to give raid utility to classes that otherwise wouldn't be brought in the more serious guilds unless they were flavor of the month.

    In that regard debuff and buffs are really useful and if you watch the world first races and look at the logs of mythic guilds (the real ones not the I kill the first 3 only each tier guilds) it is a factor in who the bring other than raw dps, which is a good thing. Anything that gets the players thinking about things other than the binary who has best dps is good for the game.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Salystra View Post
    They aren't they are a archaic remnant of TBC style debuffs that were brought back in to try to make them more widely played or something..... (usual reason I cant see it being this main reason though)

    Damage should not be reliant wholely on whether you have certain classes within the raid setup especially in regards to on target 100% uptime debuffs.
    Archaic my balls.


    TBC class-spec specific debuffs and buffs were the best thing ever they added

    We had Skull Banner not so long ago and was a nice buff.



    They could just gather all the " buff debuff " they added in TBC and MOP and come up again with something interesting.
    Last edited by Dioporco; 2020-02-28 at 10:00 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •