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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    It's about as unique as "every raid has a brewmaster and a havoc demon hunter, period". Gotta love suffocating roster variety by having "mandatory classes" as if melee and tank camps didn't already have multiple specs / classes that are unwanted and perma benched.
    That's why I thought the solution I came up with in the original post was pretty good ^^

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhozul View Post
    So, assuming we want to go back to a system of "Bring the Player, Not the Class" where classes have real value but you're not pigeonholed into, say, needing a demon hunter and a monk for your raid group, we probably want to have several different rules in place to try and prevent the system from getting out of hand. I propose the following:
    1) There needs to be at least six class buffs; enough so that every buff can appear on two different classes.
    2) The class buffs need to focus on effects that directly contribute to survivability and throughput (DPS/Healing).
    3) To avoid classes being in direct competition with each other, buffs should not appear on classes of the same "type". For example, having two cloth DPS classes share the Stamina Buff isn't ideal because it invites direct comparisons between those classes.

    So with that in mind, here's a list of suggested buffs:
    -- Armor
    -- Attack Power
    -- Critical Strike Chance
    -- Critical Strike Damage
    -- Haste
    -- Resource Regeneration (This buff would improve the rate at which characters recover a class resource; whatever Memory of Lucid Dreams affects in BFA.)
    -- Spell Power
    -- Stamina
    -- Versatility

    With this in mind, let's assign these buffs to classes. Some of them are obvious, based on existing options:
    -- Mage (Spell Power; Arcane Intellect)
    -- Priest (Stamina; Power Word: Fortitude)
    -- Warrior (Attack Power; Battle Shout)

    Now, to expand the list. Anything marked with an asterisk (*) is a new ability that I felt like naming.
    -- Death Knight (Stamina; Unholy Resolve*)
    -- Demon Hunter (Attack Power; Cry Havoc*)
    -- Druid (Versatility; Mark of the Wild)
    -- Monks (Monks have a fighting style option that gives them their choice of Haste [Tiger], Spell Power [Serpent], Stamina [Ox], or Resource Regeneration [Crane])
    -- Paladin (Paladins would have 3 auras that gave them their choice of Armor [Devotion Aura], Critical Strike Damage [Retribution Aura], or Resource Regeneration [Concentration Aura]. Paladins can swap auras at will, but only one can be active at a time.)
    -- Rogue (Critical Strike Damage; Hinder Foe*)
    -- Shaman (Shamans would have 3 water totems that gave them their choice of Critical Strike Chance, Spell Power, or Versatility. Shamans can swap between these totems at will, but only one can be active at a time.)
    -- Warlock (A Warlock's demon would provide a buff that's chosen by the warlock: Armor, Critical Strike Chance, or Haste. Warlocks can swap between these demonic buffs at will, but only one can be active at a time.)

    With this list, every buff is accounted for at least twice.
    Or remove the need for buffs at all and just have a straight output modifier provided for by the content you are doing to support the "feel more powerful as a group" idea that blizzard use to have. The idea of specific classes bringing specific buffs is antiquated. Legion did it best when they just removed all buffs. If you dont have all the buffs you feel weak. It feels shit bringing that 12k dps warrior because he will buff the 50k physical dps players. It feels shit that there are DH buffing magic damage but you have no casters. Unless all group content can be guaranteed to have all the buffs then it just feels bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  3. #63
    Personally, I'd like to see groups/raids get a buff for each unique spec they have. For example, you get a 1-2% damage/healing buff for each unique spec in the raid. This would encourage variety. Obviously it won't completely eliminate class stacking, but it would lower the gap between a class stacked raid and a more varied raid comp.

    Is it more homogenized? Yeah, I suppose. However, I feel it'd be more useful to the game than the "unique" class buffs that are present now.

  4. #64
    Pandaren Monk shade3891's Avatar
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    Melee -> 5% magic debuff
    Ranged -> 5% physical debuff
    tanks -> leech & stamina
    Healers -> versa & mastery

  5. #65
    Add thematic talents that increase specific damage types or provide buffs, as an example, Fire Mages could increase fire damage so they'd have additional synergy with Ele Shaman or Destro Locks. Bring back talents that provide utility at the cost of a little DPS, like a talent to make Feral/Guardian mangle increase bleed damage taken.

  6. #66
    Pandaren Monk Beet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Lastly, honest question ... do you really think Blizzard has tuned the fights for not having both debuffs? To me it seems like that should be a rhetorical question but I think you may really believe that is the case.
    So you think that Blizzard made the fights impossible without two debuffs? Is this your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    This is such a stupid argument. 5% damage for each raid member? Yeah that's what every sane person would call pretty mandatory.

    That's like saying, "well, you don't have to bring a flask or eat any food". Blah blah blah it's "technically" true () but you'd be stupid not to do it because it's only going to make things harder for your raid. Rather than calling it a benefit, it's more like not having it is a massive hindrance. Any raid group with a brain is going to try to bring it.
    That doesn't mean it's required dude. I'm sorry you think otherwise. Things SHOULD be harder if you don't take every benefit. This is an RPG game. You guys crack me up. Everything has to be even. Every class should be the same. Can't let any one class have anything special. And then people wonder why the game doesn't feel like an RPG anymore. When you take every damn RPG element out of the game over time it stops feeling special.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiif View Post
    I think people want uniqueness left in classes but not with boring mandatory stuff like 5% flat damage increases. Things like a DK's grip , Monks ring of peace or Priests Mind control can all be very interesting and very useful in fights while been unique but aren't completely game breaking like a flat 5% damage increase is. And they're also a lot more interesting imo
    Do you see the complaints here over friggin debuffs and buffs? Can you imagine if Blizzard designed a fight that required a priest to mind control like Razuvious was in Naxx? There would be so much outrage. They'd be WAY more upset about that than this stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    I don't like that.
    ok

    /ten chars

  7. #67
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    It doesn't need to be designed around needing it. You can design it around the ability been a nice bonus. Take a look at Jaina, mind control was a nice ability to have but not required. The same way grip is often nice to have but rarely a requirement.

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