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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by LuminaL View Post
    I liked your idea, but I also really like blood as a tank spec. I believe what Dks, and in bigger extent what wow needs, is more thematic abilities for classes.

    take blood for example, all your abilities are just your character spinning around with a 2h. you barely notice anything special about blood. the only ability I can think of that is thematic is probably dancing bones buff you get. there is only probably one ability like blood drinker which is cool, but its considered useless if you want to do any mythic past level 10 or any raid higher than normal.
    dancing rune weapon is in a very buggy state now too, you hardly even notice it.

    frost is in a much better state atm because it has more useful thematic abilities. IMO howling blast old animation was better than the new one too.
    Well, I think that actually touches on a lot of the issue. Very little about "Blood" as a concept translates into "tanking". Frost, meanwhile, just *sounds* like someone who would be a frozen juggernaut. Seeing your character weighted down in a sheet of protective ice, legs seemingly freezing to the ground to withstand powerful blows... it just kind of "works".

    Meanwhile, by bringing Blood back to a pure-melee, DPS spec, I feel like Blizzard could have a *lot* of fun with the visuals. Heart Strikes (or ideally, renamed to something cooler) that cause enemies to spray with blood, perhaps having an AoE skill that siphons the blood of nearby targets into a "blood bomb" that explodes, all kinds of stuff like that. If they wanted to keep it a little less "graphic", they could even have Blood spec utilizing the power of "Anima" seen in Throne of Thunder, which still *looks* like blood, but a bit darker.

    As it stands, I just don't feel like there's much room for growth for the specs. Because they don't really even "fit" anyways.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I don't give a shit if "most of his skills were Unholy", when you *think* about Arthas, you're thinking about Frostmourne and the Frozen Throne.
    Yup thats how it works ignore all the uncontested evidence and just go which it seems more fit for your taste. Arthas was mostly unholy and period. The fact some of the names have frost in it doesnt mean shit.

  3. #43
    If by changed you mean closer to their original concept in WotLK, then yes, they should be changed.

    Otherwise no

  4. #44
    Can't wait to see frost tanking return. Thanks for the post.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    If by changed you mean closer to their original concept in WotLK, then yes, they should be changed.

    Otherwise no
    I mean... most of my suggestions are largely that...

  6. #46
    Mechagnome Kivana's Avatar
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    I never understood the reasoning behind swapping Frost and Blood specs round.

    Frost DK's make total sense as the 'tank' role, a cold, frost hardened knight hell bent on killing shit with freezing cold attacks and their 2-hander, you know, like the first DK did.

    Blood, to me anyway, was the DPS spec. A mad, raving DK out for the blood of its enemies even at the cost of their own, but being kinda undead they relish these battles and consume the lifeforce of those foolish enough to get in their way.

  7. #47
    I think frost dk at least should go back to MoP

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kivana View Post
    I never understood the reasoning behind swapping Frost and Blood specs round.

    Frost DK's make total sense as the 'tank' role, a cold, frost hardened knight hell bent on killing shit with freezing cold attacks and their 2-hander, you know, like the first DK did.

    Blood, to me anyway, was the DPS spec. A mad, raving DK out for the blood of its enemies even at the cost of their own, but being kinda undead they relish these battles and consume the lifeforce of those foolish enough to get in their way.
    Like people have been saying for pages, Frost was not *the* tank spec. Every spec could tank, and in fact, Frost was worst.

  9. #49
    Pit Lord msdos's Avatar
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    I would like them to move away from Death Strike being the end-all, be-all form of survivability. It doesn't fit in this new PVE landscape anymore, it's only remotely good in PVP and even then, ranged with a brain will just kite and be enabled to kite you and it will get nerfed intermittently throughout expansions, proof in pudding.

    I would also like to see a line drawn in the sand on DoT damage. Either our DoT is a main component in all 3 specs or it isn't. Having it be there but have the lowest tuning imaginable is so pointless (Unholy exception).
    Rotation complexity that doesn't involve managing combo point numbers would be nice, so change Cold Heart and change the wounds to not be combo points that stack up to 10/20.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    No. People do not chose to tank or not tank depending on the fantasy of a spec. They chose to do or do not do so because of how it actually feels for them to play it. Back when Frost was considered the tanking spec, due to Frost Presence giving bonus armor and magic damage reduction, I did not at all want to tank with it. It wasn't until Cata, when Blood became the tank spec, that it felt right FOR ME to tank.

    Similar, I've always been Unholy as mainspec, even when Frost was king of the charts, because that's what I liked to play. That's what felt the best to me. Didn't matter one bit what Arthas did, how Arthas acted, looked or even sounded like. I love Unholy. I will play Unholy because I like Unholy. And I will tank as long as it feels right to do so. Magically swapping Frost and Blood again, like it happened in Cata, doesn't mean more will suddenly tank on their DK.
    Why play a ROLEPLAYING GAME if "people" don't play depending on the fantasy of a spec??? It sounds so boring when all you care about is "efficiency" or how big the dps numbers are on one spec compared to another. That mentality is perfect for MOBA or action games, not literal ROLEPLAYING games

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I played a DK pretty much since they were first available in the Wrath Beta. But to be perfectly frank, I think that while they have had their ups and downs, I think the fantasy of each Spec has been fundamentally misunderstood, and could be far better worked.

    Here's how I would redefine these three specs:

    - Frost: The "Arthas" spec, Tank

    I don't give a shit if "most of his skills were Unholy", when you *think* about Arthas, you're thinking about Frostmourne and the Frozen Throne. I would dive fully into that fantasy, with Frost wielding a single 2hander, a juggernaut that is meant more for *taking* punishment than necessarily doling it out.

    Not only does it better fit the "fantasy" of a Frost Death Knight (a slow-moving, hulking behemoth of a man), but I think by tying its identity directly to Arthas (much as Havoc DH's are to Illidan), it would inspire more players to take up the mantle of Tanking, which is always helpful in MMO's.

    - Unholy: The Necromancer, WC2-style Death Knight

    In a more startling shift, I would change Unholy to be more of a traditional "Necromancer". Not *totally* traditional, mind you; just *more so*. During Legion, the Unholy artifact, Apocalypse, did an absolutely *incredible* job of capturing the fantasy of being a melee-oriented Necromancer, where your attacks had you summoning a constant barrage of one-off undead for sometimes a single attack.

    That was a really cool fantasy anyways, and this could bridge the gap a little more with the WC2-era Death Knight, who was also quite cool in his own right. If you had to put a specific name to it, I suppose Teron Gorefiend is about the only well-known WC2 Death Knight.

    Also, by being a bit more "ranged" focused, it paves the way for a more unique interpretation of...

    - Blood: The "new" Death Knight

    While Frost and Undead serve as solid callbacks to Arthas and the WC2 era Death Knight, respectively, I would use the opportunity to reinvent Blood spec a bit.

    It would be the more pure *Melee* DPS-spec. I would throw a spin on things by perhaps coupling their ability to drain blood (health) with abilities to also *expend* it. I would go entirely Dracula/Vlad the Impaler for inspiration for the spec, depicting Blood DK's as mighty, bloodthirsty warriors, but also with a dark, supernatural/vampiric quality.

    I feel like not only would that be wholly unique, but also mesh quite nicely with one of the new zones and covenants in Shadowlands, which seems *very* inspired by Dracula's castle.

    To give the spec a bit more defined "personality", I'd say you'd want Blood spec represented by either some kind of bloodthirsty Orc (perhaps re-defining Nazgrim as a Blood DK?), or maybe a Blood Elf or one of the San'layn.

    - In conclusion...

    I think these specs would feel far more distinctive and iconic that the current ones we have. Sure, the current specs "work", but honestly I don't think any one spec is particularly exciting. Doubly-so when Frost is now DW-only.

    Speaking of which, now that we have *so* many dual-wielding classes in the game, I would legitimately propose removing dual-wielding entirely. I simply don't think it fits the Death Knight class. As for the Legion artifact, just retcon it to a singular "Blade of the Fallen Prince", and increase the size of the 1hander models to be suitable for 2handers.
    Honestly I say just revert back to WRATH DK, let people do whatever they wanted to in each spec. Let the weirdo do his dual weild Blood/ Frost spec, let the Unholy Tank, and FFS Let Blood DPS be a thing again.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    not literal ROLEPLAYING games
    A minor minority amongst players enjoy actually playing a roleplaying game. The vast majority doesn't give a flying fk about what type this game is classified as and really do play for the big numbers or the feeling of being good at whatever they do, instead of being all Calm As A Monk or Sneaky Roguey.

  13. #53
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    All this sounds fine but, if I am being honest with myself, I'd be happy if they just brought two handed Frost back.
    But . . . make it a talent. A viable, but optional talent that keeps dual wielding an option.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    But . . . make it a talent. A viable, but optional talent that keeps dual wielding an option.
    Agreed, and there's nothing stopping the devs from making everything we want a talent. The easiest thing would just make the first row of talents DPS, DPS w/pet, tank.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    Like people have been saying for pages, Frost was not *the* tank spec. Every spec could tank, and in fact, Frost was worst.
    This. I feel like all suggestions like this are made by bads who barely got past doing dungeons in wrath. Blood was the 2h dps spec,largely popular early max on fights like patchwork,but once we got more gear,2h frost outperformed it,and dual wield fast 1h weapons icy touch spam frost was king anyway,until balance patches and shadowmourne. And really there was no pure focus spec,all the best performing specs were hybrids,and so help you god if you didnt bring the mini bloodlust from frost for your raid.

  16. #56
    I reckon just throw us back to how we were on launch. Being able to tank or dps in any spec was great. I miss blood dps + Hysteria buff with heroism on my dude
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  17. #57
    Diseaseless Blood. Rock on!

    Also Frost back to 2h, Unholy to dual wield plxs
    RETH

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    Diseaseless Blood. Rock on!

    Also Frost back to 2h, Unholy to dual wield plxs
    at this point, i think that they should be able to implement both DW and 2H for all 3 specs, and bring back SMF for fury

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyzk View Post
    The Arthas Frost DK Spec sounds absolutely amazing. I would also love to play a Blood DK DPS again.

    What i miss is:
    - being able to decide to either dps or tank as frost
    - being able to decide to either dps or tank as blood
    - being able to decide between dual wield or 2h weapon as frost.

    Why restrict us to one thing? All the time, it's annoying.
    min maxing is a thing,if blizzard isnt retricting you,players will lol
    Last edited by deenman; 2020-03-18 at 11:48 AM.

  20. #60
    I like the specs as they are now, maybe just Unholy feels a bit weird. Never understood why people feel the need for 3 dps-tank specs that will be a nightmare to balance and will probably result in DKs being the worst tanks of all.

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