Auto-attack Outdated?

[RemasteredClassic]

Watch any WoW youtube video, PvP and PvE, and look at the action bars. You endlessly see a button being bashed until it triggers the ability associated with then the player moves on to the next button to do the exact same thing...it clearly shows the player bashing a button while waiting for GCD to end...

[ercarp]

What you're talking about sounds like auto-attacking with extra steps.

[Spl4sh3r]

If they either reduced health or baked in the autoattack/shot damage into the rest of your abiilities then there would be no reason to keep it. I mean they don't need to replace it with another active ability, because most of the time (at least as a hunter) I would be spamming my ability to gain focus if I had nothing else to do.

[Onikaroshi]

Watch any WoW youtube video, PvP and PvE, and look at the action bars. You endlessly see a button being bashed until it triggers the ability associated with then the player moves on to the next button to do the exact same thing...it clearly shows the player bashing a button while waiting for GCD to end...

Shit, I do that in in FFXIV which has a 2.5 base second GCD, it's just human nature i guess.

[yamix]

Watch any WoW youtube video, PvP and PvE, and look at the action bars. You endlessly see a button being bashed until it triggers the ability associated with then the player moves on to the next button to do the exact same thing...it clearly shows the player bashing a button while waiting for GCD to end...

I do it sometimes too, but not because I want more buttons to press, but often when I'm not sure my ability will go off (movement, some resources need to Regen, etc).

It's not because I'm bored and need a useless button to manually auto attack.

[Super Kami Dende]

Most can agree that tab targeting / GCD based combat feels slow and is outdated in comparison to action combat.
Instead of the auto-attack we currently have, what if WoW had an active weapon attack ability that is not affected by the game's GCD that can act as a filler in between other abilities? Would that create the illusion of a faster paced / more fun gameplay?

The illusion? maybe. But the actual feel? not likely.

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Watch any WoW youtube video, PvP and PvE, and look at the action bars. You endlessly see a button being bashed until it triggers the ability associated with then the player moves on to the next button to do the exact same thing...it clearly shows the player bashing a button while waiting for GCD to end...

Mostly due to Latency correction and ability queuing.

[Raugnaut]

It's not "tiny", and it has been the pick in the past as well sometimes. 5% on your most damaging abilities is pretty good, especially when the talent also allows you to cast way more of them.

So, the +5% damage on the finishing moves was only added in BfA, precisely because it was underpreforming. Even in the past, SotF was NEVER considered a better pick over Savage Roar - However, Savage Roar was nerfed quite a bit this expansion from 30% pure damage boost from Legion (Worth using), to 10% damage boost and 10% energy regen (If it was Haste, it would have been better, but energy regen ONLY increases the number of Shreds and FBs you can put out, and Shred's damage is so low without significant Azerite support that it's not worth).

So, eh. SotF is now only the pick because of significant nerfs to the other talents in the tree in the name of "balance"

[LilSaihah]

Should play GW2 instead maybe? Autoattacking is a specific thing you use rather than being just white damage that happens irregardless of what you do.

[Rucati]

WoW can easily be made to feel like an action combat game by changing all single target attacks into frontal AoE attacks not requiring a target. I think the game needs more of these, especially for melee classes.

Wow I've read a lot of really stupid ideas on the forums in the past, but this one takes the cake.

Yeah let's make the entire game completely braindead where you mash your AoE button because who wants skill to matter? While we're at it, we should really just make every mob in the game have 1 health so the gameplay feels really fast paced since everything dies quickly. We should also probably have everyone moving 10x faster, wouldn't want people to accidentally fall asleep in the five nanoseconds between pulls now, would we? Actually maybe just remove mobs from the game, it would probably be more fun to zone into an instance and just be handed free loot don't you think? Does WoW even need combat?

I mean god damn what an absolutely idiotic idea.

[op3l]

So basically you have to spam another button repeatedly over the entire fight to do what is currently an automatic attack...

[Shaetha]

I like to give Star Wars: The Old Republic is an example - no auto attack for any spec. I find the combat far more dynamic and enjoyable there compared to WoW. (alas the game has other fundamental flaws)

Auto attack is not needed right now without changing anything in WoW. All classes that got it already have rotations, priorities and fillers. None is designed to right click a target and AFK. Auto attack is something that is invisibly happening on the background of your main combat abilities and it makes no sense.

A Paladin with lower haste and bad azerite has gaps in their rotation where they can do nothing but wait cooldowns and watch the auto attack - but that is bad design, not a reason to need auto attack. Same for BM Hunter where 60% of the damage comes from the pet and auto attack.

If there were ever an overhaul to the combat and class systems in WoW removing auto attack should be a staple. But it seems with Shadowlands they are willing to go backwards in class design, instead of leading the MMO charge from the front.

Nothing SW:ToR's combat offers is in any way different from any class that is GCD locked in WoW. If you want to be GCD locked play a class that offers it. There are lots of them. Some people don't want that. Stop trying to remove play styles people like to add nothing. It's incredibly selfish.

[Blackmist]

I think it was monks that were supposed to be designed without an auto-attack, but they added it back in because they had no idea how to make that actually work and be balanced.

I'd be all for removing it and having all your actions be manual. The auto attack is no longer relevant. All weapon speed was normalised. Your regular movement and spells don't interrupt your swing timers as of like Wrath I think, it's now a relic.

[Trumpcat]

Nothing SW:ToR's combat offers is in any way different from any class that is GCD locked in WoW. If you want to be GCD locked play a class that offers it. There are lots of them. Some people don't want that. Stop trying to remove play styles people like to add nothing. It's incredibly selfish.

Every single spec needs constant proactive and reactive input. The auto attack is nothing but a passive number going on the background which has no relation to the gameplay. It is not a playstyle, because there is no play involved. What's actually selfish is attacking people that ask for a more fluid and engaging design.

[Tradu]

So, the +5% damage on the finishing moves was only added in BfA, precisely because it was underpreforming. Even in the past, SotF was NEVER considered a better pick over Savage Roar - However, Savage Roar was nerfed quite a bit this expansion from 30% pure damage boost from Legion (Worth using), to 10% damage boost and 10% energy regen (If it was Haste, it would have been better, but energy regen ONLY increases the number of Shreds and FBs you can put out, and Shred's damage is so low without significant Azerite support that it's not worth).

So, eh. SotF is now only the pick because of significant nerfs to the other talents in the tree in the name of "balance"

Savage Roar used to be baseline, so SotF wasn't always competing with it. Obviously the reason it's currently better than the other options(generally, although Incarn has some theoretical use cases) is that the other options do less damage. Feral is undeniably higher paced than in the past(with a few other abominations as exceptions, like HFC and Antorus, because for some reason invalidating energy specs' resource in the last tier is something Blizzard loves doing)

[Schizoide]

Autoattacks serve a purpose. A primary differentiating factor between new and adept players is ABC, Always Be Casting. Newbies don't spam their buttons, and those half-seconds where you aren't casting add up quick. If 50% of your total damage comes from autoattacks, the difference between low/high skill is reduced a bit. Autoattacks also help when you're facing a lot of either network or server lag; that's 50% of your damage that always goes off.

I've always had a quality internet connection so network lag has never been an issue, I'm never over 80ms ping, but server lag has been terrible lately.

[FAILoZOFF]

No auto-attacks? Can't possibly imagine how that would even work. /s
Its not like we have like 15 (literally every single caster, excluding paladins and monks healers) specs out of 32 that get away, without it - somehow.

[yamix]

No auto-attacks? Can't possibly imagine how that would even work. /s
Its not like we have like 15 (literally every single caster, excluding paladins and monks healers) specs out of 32 that get away, without it - somehow.

The original post was about an off gcd ability to replace Auto attack, not just removing it. It's a different discussion. I had to stop playing gladiator because it had this design in the form of rage dumping heroic strike off GCD, after a couple hours my wrist would hurt like hell, and the APM was crazy this style of game.

[Alanar]

So basically macro auto attack to every ability.

Or just use that ability and auto attack starts automaticly.. like it works right now.

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No auto-attacks? Can't possibly imagine how that would even work. /s
Its not like we have like 15 (literally every single caster, excluding paladins and monks healers) specs out of 32 that get away, without it - somehow.

Look at swtor, classes have a basic slash like a filler type of idea that is free.. that combat system(minus the lag felt great)

[FelPlague]

Ah the typical fanboy response.

"But it was always like that."

No. It wasn't. Sure at different times in the games 15 year old life cycle white hits where a larger source of your damage.

But there was never this amount of RNG involved in the way your class actually plays.

"Your attacks have a chance to ______."

"Your attacks have a chance to ______."

"Your attacks have a chance to ______."



Did you even look at the linked picture? Over 55% of the players damage came from an RNG passive source. Something that he/she had zero input over.

"Your attacks have a chance to _____" has been a huge thing since vanilla, as part of classes, as part of abilities, and as part of items.

Windfury, dont forget windfury "oh im gunna fight this shaman, and he just hit me 5 times at once and im dead"
Dont forget stuff like crit, where warlock would do like 1/10th your health per shadowbolt, but then BOOM CRIT and you drop half health in 1 hit.
And then class abilities too.

Man look at all these RNG based effects, and this is JUST druid talents. i havent even gotten to their spells, or the many other classes. all of this in vanilla, then pair that with gear like trinkets, weapons, and some rare items. then pair that with enchants ontop like weapon enchants and the such.

yes, there has always been "I have like 5 things procced right now, i have no control, so i just do my rotation, and try to pop my CD's when i have the most procs up"

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Good shit dude. Don't make statements like "the game has always been like this" then. It's just not true, is it?

A small amount of RNG in class mechanics/rotations is fine.

Over 50-70% in some cases? No. No thanks.

In a game where I am striving to get the most out of my character. You know - an RPG. I don't want every single attempt on a boss to deviate by 20-30% because of shit I have absolutely zero control over.

"Small amount" RNG procs has never been a small amount.

[czarek]

Most can agree that tab targeting / GCD based combat feels slow and is outdated in comparison to action combat.
Instead of the auto-attack we currently have, what if WoW had an active weapon attack ability that is not affected by the game's GCD that can act as a filler in between other abilities? Would that create the illusion of a faster paced / more fun gameplay?

WoW can easily be made to feel like an action combat game by changing all single target attacks into frontal AoE attacks not requiring a target. I think the game needs more of these, especially for melee classes.

Edit:
The idea is that you're already spamming the button of your next rotation ability, except nothing is happening so you keep bashing the button until GCD timer ends. Instead of bashing a button without anything happening, why not switch to an off GCD ability while waiting for GCD timer to finish. Wouldn't it make for a more interesting, non repeatable mindless pattern of 1, 2, 3, 4 rinse and repeat? Have the off GCD spammable ability be weak but trigger combos that are different every now and then and get rid of exact rotations...dynamic game play would make it more interesting imho instead of 1,2,3,4 or 1, spam, 2, spam, 3, spam...etc

??? WoW actually is action combat spam button game as hell u want make it more ? I dont want to make combos like in mortal kombat with no cd. That would be just like trash mobile game and tbh with no cd u can do basicly 1 macro and spam 1 button...