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  1. #1

    Auto-attack Outdated?

    Most can agree that tab targeting / GCD based combat feels slow and is outdated in comparison to action combat.
    Instead of the auto-attack we currently have, what if WoW had an active weapon attack ability that is not affected by the game's GCD that can act as a filler in between other abilities? Would that create the illusion of a faster paced / more fun gameplay?

    WoW can easily be made to feel like an action combat game by changing all single target attacks into frontal AoE attacks not requiring a target. I think the game needs more of these, especially for melee classes.

    Edit:
    The idea is that you're already spamming the button of your next rotation ability, except nothing is happening so you keep bashing the button until GCD timer ends. Instead of bashing a button without anything happening, why not switch to an off GCD ability while waiting for GCD timer to finish. Wouldn't it make for a more interesting, non repeatable mindless pattern of 1, 2, 3, 4 rinse and repeat? Have the off GCD spammable ability be weak but trigger combos that are different every now and then and get rid of exact rotations...dynamic game play would make it more interesting imho instead of 1,2,3,4 or 1, spam, 2, spam, 3, spam...etc

    WoW is not fully tab targeting, just so you know, half the skills don't require a target. Casters have no auto-attack either. Just trying to explore ways to make melee classes feel fun, paladin is horrible now for example, but that's mostly for lack of enough active skills and the GCD changes.
    Last edited by RemasteredClassic; 2020-02-28 at 07:47 AM.

  2. #2
    So basically macro auto attack to every ability.

  3. #3
    I think most classes already have a filler, so no need for it really in terms of a filler in the current system. Mind Flay for shadow priests. Crusader strike for paladins, ext.

    That said, the game COULD transition to a bit more of an action/skill based system, but that would require re-working the entire gameplay structure.

    If you want to see how this plays in practical reality, try Wildstar....er it closed down, so eh?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TickerDS View Post
    I think most classes already have a filler, so no need for it really in terms of a filler in the current system. Mind Flay for shadow priests. Crusader strike for paladins, ext.

    That said, the game COULD transition to a bit more of an action/skill based system, but that would require re-working the entire gameplay structure.

    If you want to see how this plays in practical reality, try Wildstar....er it closed down, so eh?
    Swtor has no auto-attack but is tab target/hotkey, so it can work without needing to re-work the entire gameplay structure.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    Most can agree that tab targeting / GCD based combat feels slow and is outdated in comparison to action combat.
    Instead of the auto-attack we currently have, what if WoW had an active weapon attack ability that is not affected by the game's GCD that can act as a filler in between other abilities? Would that create the illusion of a faster paced / more fun gameplay?

    WoW can easily be made to feel like an action combat game by changing all single target attacks into frontal AoE attacks not requiring a target. I think the game needs more of these, especially for melee classes.
    Been my dream for a long time but I just don't see them doing it. Doesn't hurt to daydream about it and brainstorm cool concepts though! I love skillshots but don't like FPS because they are so fast paced and stressful. A slower-paced skillshot/true action combat system similar to *some* abilities in LoL, Diablo 3 and Trine 1-4 would be cool. I love the idea of having to aim your shield to block a missile and was sooo disappointed by the Paladin's talent ability that spawns a shield barrier behind you... and allies in it take 20% reduced damage and you can't move with it and have to channel it... It's so weak in comparison to Braum's shield barrier for example.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    Most can agree that tab targeting / GCD based combat feels slow and is outdated in comparison to action combat.
    Instead of the auto-attack we currently have, what if WoW had an active weapon attack ability that is not affected by the game's GCD that can act as a filler in between other abilities? Would that create the illusion of a faster paced / more fun gameplay?

    WoW can easily be made to feel like an action combat game by changing all single target attacks into frontal AoE attacks not requiring a target. I think the game needs more of these, especially for melee classes.
    They'll never remove auto attacks.

    They're moving to a design where over three quarters of your damage comes from passive, RNG sources that you have absolutely no control over.

    See - Azerite + Corruption + Some Essences.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...l_much_talent/

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    They'll never remove auto attacks.

    They're moving to a design where over three quarters of your damage comes from passive, RNG sources that you have absolutely no control over.

    See - Azerite + Corruption + Some Essences.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...l_much_talent/
    As opposed to what? pre cata times where white hits were upwards of 50% OR MORE of your damage? Game was like that for a long time.

  8. #8
    When MoP was first announced, one of the things they advertised for the Monks was being the first class with no auto attack, the initial design idea was that you had to keep spamming your abilities with no downtime. They gave them auto attack back in like the 2nd beta build. Basically, what I'm saying is, it ain't ever gonna happen because the game isn't designed to accommodate it, especially nowadays.

  9. #9
    Immortal Kithelle's Avatar
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    No thanks....they already have so many problems balancing things as it is...I can just imagine the cluster fuck it could cause trying to rebalance every melee spec's DPS to a system without the autoattack

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxe View Post
    When MoP was first announced, one of the things they advertised for the Monks was being the first class with no auto attack, the initial design idea was that you had to keep spamming your abilities with no downtime. They gave them auto attack back in like the 2nd beta build. Basically, what I'm saying is, it ain't ever gonna happen because the game isn't designed to accommodate it, especially nowadays.
    Yup...it would just be a complete mess...a complete balancing nightmare.
    Hope, the greatest power of all!

    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    As opposed to what? pre cata times where white hits were upwards of 50% OR MORE of your damage? Game was like that for a long time.
    Ah the typical fanboy response.

    "But it was always like that."

    No. It wasn't. Sure at different times in the games 15 year old life cycle white hits where a larger source of your damage.

    But there was never this amount of RNG involved in the way your class actually plays.

    "Your attacks have a chance to ______."

    "Your attacks have a chance to ______."

    "Your attacks have a chance to ______."



    Did you even look at the linked picture? Over 55% of the players damage came from an RNG passive source. Something that he/she had zero input over.

  11. #11
    I mostly play SWtOR which has no autoattack. Instead, each class has a stringent resource management aspect. Each class has an 'auto attack' which a) costs to class resource or more fortuitously b) increases class resource. The game thus encourages you to maintain a 100% uptime whilst managing class resource.

    The problem with autoattack is it can be abused. I remember raiding in Vanilla when I would often just autoattack my hunter on various bosses. The advantage of games like SWtOR is specific animations. If one is just 'autoattacking' (just pressing default attack skill) the animation is very obvious. This often leads to other players calling them out.

    I believe a removal of autoattack encourages players to play their class to their almost fullest potential, otherwise the downsides are very apparent.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    times where white hits were upwards of 50% OR MORE of your damage?
    you mean like now?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    Ah the typical fanboy response.

    "But it was always like that."

    No. It wasn't. Sure at different times in the games 15 year old life cycle white hits where a larger source of your damage.

    But there was never this amount of RNG involved in the way your class actually plays.

    "Your attacks have a chance to ______."

    "Your attacks have a chance to ______."

    "Your attacks have a chance to ______."



    Did you even look at the linked picture? Over 55% of the players damage came from an RNG passive source. Something that he/she had zero input over.
    I like RNG attacks /shrug. And no, I'm not a "fanboi" I absolutely despise the majority of what BfA has done, like getting rid of ML, getting rid of tier, doubling down on M+, etc.

  14. #14
    I don't feel like autoattack matters at all. I'm not sure what the point of it is, don't get why removing it would even change anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I like RNG attacks /shrug. And no, I'm not a "fanboi" I absolutely despise the majority of what BfA has done, like getting rid of ML, getting rid of tier, doubling down on M+, etc.
    Good shit dude. Don't make statements like "the game has always been like this" then. It's just not true, is it?

    A small amount of RNG in class mechanics/rotations is fine.

    Over 50-70% in some cases? No. No thanks.

    In a game where I am striving to get the most out of my character. You know - an RPG. I don't want every single attempt on a boss to deviate by 20-30% because of shit I have absolutely zero control over.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster Ticj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kieraTM View Post
    I mostly play SWtOR which has no autoattack. Instead, each class has a stringent resource management aspect. Each class has an 'auto attack' which a) costs to class resource or more fortuitously b) increases class resource. The game thus encourages you to maintain a 100% uptime whilst managing class resource.

    The problem with autoattack is it can be abused. I remember raiding in Vanilla when I would often just autoattack my hunter on various bosses. The advantage of games like SWtOR is specific animations. If one is just 'autoattacking' (just pressing default attack skill) the animation is very obvious. This often leads to other players calling them out.

    I believe a removal of autoattack encourages players to play their class to their almost fullest potential, otherwise the downsides are very apparent.
    I mean in this day and age with dps meters and raid logs, if someone is just autoattacking they will get kicked from any group they are in.

  17. #17
    Honestly, I wouldn't mind the removal of autoattack. It's mostly cosmetic in functionality, i.e. the point is to make melee look more engaged in actual fighting by constantly moving. The damage is a boring passive stream of DPS you design around, it has little engagement in terms of functionality.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    Good shit dude. Don't make statements like "the game has always been like this" then. It's just not true, is it?

    A small amount of RNG in class mechanics/rotations is fine.

    Over 50-70% in some cases? No. No thanks.

    In a game where I am striving to get the most out of my character. You know - an RPG. I don't want every single attempt on a boss to deviate by 20-30% because of shit I have absolutely zero control over.
    I never said always, just that it was like that for quite a bit of it's life.

    And those times when it's THAT much of your damage are fringe cases, look at the top ranked people on most single target fights, IS was doing closer to 14% on a lot of them, nowhere near 28%.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TickerDS View Post
    I think most classes already have a filler, so no need for it really in terms of a filler in the current system. Mind Flay for shadow priests. Crusader strike for paladins, ext.

    That said, the game COULD transition to a bit more of an action/skill based system, but that would require re-working the entire gameplay structure.

    If you want to see how this plays in practical reality, try Wildstar....er it closed down, so eh?
    Unfortunately in the game's current form there are many classes that actually don't have filler abilities like you're thinking. Crusader strike for paladins actually have charges and with lower haste (like beginning of the expansion levels) they'd be left standing there looking stupid because the cooldown takes too long and they run out of buttons to push. Unholy DKs, Survival hunters, both also can have dead spots at lower haste or with certain talent selections. If those talents are taken then you get a character that stands around without doing anything for significant enough parts of combat. If your character is standing still with nothing to do for 3 seconds and the fury warrior is going ham like Blinkin on a wood pole (Men in Tights) then it would be pretty lame.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    Most can agree that tab targeting / GCD based combat feels slow and is outdated in comparison to action combat.
    No.
    WoW can easily be made to feel like an action combat game by changing all single target attacks into frontal AoE attacks not requiring a target.
    Mindless AoE spam, sounds so fun !

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