Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[yamix]

Accidents happen, but not being prepared for one ahead of time is plain disrespectful to the other players in your group. Your kid fell off its crib and hit its head? Sure, no problem. But just because you last fed your kid X hours ago and instead of thinking about when the next meal should be you join a M+ and suddenly have to feed your kid is not my problem. If your child is prone to crying because it's young enough, don't request strangers to care about that. If you want to be able to deal with it, don't engage in activities that require X amount of time and a group.

I don't engage in it. That's what my post was saying. I would engage in it if it did not have a timer.

[Licketysplit77]

[QUOTE=Hinastorm;52126631]It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.[/QUOTE

Sure this must be a Joke, no one is that stupid.
But just ignore the timer and complete the dungeon, get a chest anyway

[Penegal]

I don't engage in it. That's what my post was saying. I would engage in it if it did not have a timer.

Reread my post.

[Wolfrick]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

Amen, Agree with you 100% bro!!!


I could not agree more... most of my friend and myself... just hate the timer... an MMORPG should never ever have a timer in their dungeons.... it comes to stress and Marathon like gameplay... that has nothing to towith doing a hard dungeon...

take my example... I have close to never ever taken a Mytic +1 and higher... until 3 weeks ago.... I had no clue where the Mytic chest was in Zandalar....

So the Timer in Mytic+ just alienantes people that like the play MMORPG.

[Dystemper]

I might actually do them if they were like this. I hated challenge modes from the moment they introduced them because I do not enjoy playing against the timer.

Same here. I have always hated timed content or quests that had a timer . its not relaxing or fun for me

- - - Updated - - -

I might actually do them if they were like this. I hated challenge modes from the moment they introduced them because I do not enjoy playing against the timer.

Same here. I have always hated timed content or quests that had a timer . its not relaxing or fun for me

[Fastlane_hellscream]

Without the timer, the players doing the dungeon wouldn't have the expectation to run it on time nor the pressure of that time even existing, and it would be more difficulty than the default Mythic.

As someone stated, that's what Mythic 0 is for. You want better gear, without having to do anything above and beyond. What kind of socialists bullshit is that? Do you show up at your job and expect the best pay of anyone around you for just showing up? Work harder, get paid more. Just sayin'

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

Pugs will always be toxic and it doesn't require rushing just knowing the dungeon. You can't throw time at something now there is a bar for once. Womp womp womp.

I do support a pause mechanic though for dc or busy people like mothers.etc

[A Chozo]

As someone stated, that's what Mythic 0 is for.

No, Mythic 0 monsters have less health, deal less damage and the dungeons lack the affixes that the higher M+ have.

Do you even know what the Mythic+ system is? It's just not a timer.

[Dakara]

I’d rather a system where you are punished for mistakes rather than someone having to afk due to a knock at the door.... I despise timed content in WOW (Although don’t mind it in D3 greater rifts).

For M+, I’d rather see a system that had a maximum number of lives before players are “perma killed”, better affixes that don’t just make the healers/tanks have to work harder... basically anything that would see “bad” groups still fail, but not because of an arbitrary timer.

[MiseryIndex]

TLDR: Im lazy/bad give me free loot

This is pretty much it. One of these threads pops up every once in a while and just spews out the same talking points. No one on earth is stopping anyone from running keys for completion. If you like the "challenge" of doing pulls one mob at a time, have at it with the other people who agree with your approach. Considering how the M+ community is thriving, I'd say the hating-the-timer is a you problem.

[Kokolums]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ga...wynn/ataldazar

I'm honestly a bit confused right now. There's been leaderboards for a while now.

Leaderboards not embedded in the actual game don't count. Put them in the game and a LOT of people will see it. Put them on a website and almost no-one will even look for it much less find it. If you read my posts over the years, this is one of my BIG complaints. Blizzard needs to stick this stuff in-game where its easy to access. It effetively doesn't exist because its on the wow website.

[Carcimomim]

I’d rather a system where you are punished for mistakes rather than someone having to afk due to a knock at the door.... I despise timed content in WOW (Although don’t mind it in D3 greater rifts).

For M+, I’d rather see a system that had a maximum number of lives before players are “perma killed”, better affixes that don’t just make the healers/tanks have to work harder... basically anything that would see “bad” groups still fail, but not because of an arbitrary timer.

You take away the timer, you take away a big part of the challenge. You also eliminate any point to get better and do harder content, which is the entire point of the M+ system. You fail, you get back up and you try again until you do complete it. I hate not timing keys, but that also means I have something to overcome. Now it’s my responsibility to improve and now I have an objective to achieve and when I achieve it, I feel good.

I’m sorry that you’re not good enough to do it, but that’s actually a you problem not a problem with the timer. You also already have the option of not completing it in time and still get the same rewards at the end of the dungeon and the weekly.

[Dakara]

You take away the timer, you take away a big part of the challenge. You also eliminate any point to get better and do harder content, which is the entire point of the M+ system. You fail, you get back up and you try again until you do complete it. I hate not timing keys, but that also means I have something to overcome. Now it’s my responsibility to improve and now I have an objective to achieve and when I achieve it, I feel good.

I’m sorry that you’re not good enough to do it, but that’s actually a you problem not a problem with the timer. You also already have the option of not completing it in time and still get the same rewards at the end of the dungeon and the weekly.

There’s that good old MMO-C arrogance I’ve come to expect.... where did I say anything about not being good enough? I hate the timer, always have always will, that doesn’t mean I’m not doing my weekly 15’s, I just don’t care about M+ beyond the loot cap because I hate timed content.

Your argument that removing the timer takes away the difficulty assumes nothing else would change to compensate. There are other ways to make content difficult beyond a ticking clock.

[melodramocracy]

I don't mind the timer. M+ has its own issues, stemming almost entirely from the people who participate in them. Thing is though, if they can make challenging raid content that isn't time based, there's little reason they can't do the same for dungeons.

[bringsdeath]

No myth+ needs a timer. If you don't want to time it just say "for completion only" if you're not timing them then you probably shouldn't do a higher key with that group comp. I've been in groups where I'm carrying towards the timer and some where I'm holding the group back and that's where I know I've done as high of a key I need that week.

[rhorle]

Your argument that removing the timer takes away the difficulty assumes nothing else would change to compensate. There are other ways to make content difficult beyond a ticking clock.

Not really. There isn't much to do progressive levels of difficulty that are still interesting. Simply adding X% to damage and health of mobs is not very interesting challenge. The entire reason why Mythic+ is difficult to do is because of the time limit and having to deal with affixes and the increase in scaling in that time limit. Otherwise it wouldn't be a challenge at all and simply a gear check.

Its why things like Heroic and Mythic can be challenging at the start of an expansion. But as the encounters become known and gear gets better they are no longer a challenge.

[Dakara]

Not really. There isn't much to do progressive levels of difficulty that are still interesting. Simply adding X% to damage and health of mobs is not very interesting challenge. The entire reason why Mythic+ is difficult to do is because of the time limit and having to deal with affixes and the increase in scaling in that time limit. Otherwise it wouldn't be a challenge at all and simply a gear check.

Its why things like Heroic and Mythic can be challenging at the start of an expansion. But as the encounters become known and gear gets better they are no longer a challenge.

Limited Res/Respawns, new/more Affixes at higher key levels, additional trash (forcing bigger pulls) at higher keys, enrage timers on bosses and/or additional phases.

All content gets easier as we acquire more gear, even M+, which is why mob health/damage increase with key level but the max ilvl caps out at a +15.

My biggest issues with the timer are not difficulty related or due to not timing a key due to poor gameplay... it’s more to do with the inability to “pause” and wait for someone should something happen (e.g. a DC or urgent AFK)... RL does happen now and again.

Heck I’d settle with a halfway solution where the timers were shorter, but only counted down in combat. That way, if something happens between pulls, the group can wait out of combat without burning the key.

[rhorle]

Limited Res/Respawns, new/more Affixes at higher key levels, additional trash (forcing bigger pulls) at higher keys, enrage timers on bosses and/or additional phases.

Affixs are not an issue if you have unlimited time to counter them. The entire reason why they are a challenge is that you have to deal with them in X amount of time. Additional trash is also not a problem if you have no time limit to clear them. All it does is make you wait for cool downs and CC. Enrage timers on bosses are just dps checks.

Limited respawns can make things harder but then that is essentially a timer. Of which already exists in Mythic+ since deaths subtract time.

Heck I’d settle with a halfway solution where the timers were shorter, but only counted down in combat. That way, if something happens between pulls, the group can wait out of combat without burning the key.

But then nothing becomes an issue. Because you can get all the mana back. Heal up. Wait for cool downs. Etc. Which means it isn't difficult it just becomes a waiting game to complete things. You would wait after every single pull. If you honestly thing majority of groups would not then you don't really understand players as a whole. Capable groups would push but any difficult trash packs or affixs would wait.

Yes it does suck that people that can't have uninterrupted 15-30 mins. But as you say life happens. Just chalk it up to "random" and complete the run with out the timer. You can't design a game solely around people that have limited play otherwise even your suggestions wouldn't work out. Because what if I can only play in 5 min chunks? Shouldn't I get catered to in game design where all Mythic+ runs only last 5 mins? Of course that is an extreme example but at some point people need to just adapt to the game rather then having the game adapt to them.

Not everything needs to suit all players.

[Dakara]

Affixs are not an issue if you have unlimited time to counter them. The entire reason why they are a challenge is that you have to deal with them in X amount of time. Additional trash is also not a problem if you have no time limit to clear them. All it does is make you wait for cool downs and CC. Enrage timers on bosses are just dps checks.

Limited respawns can make things harder but then that is essentially a timer. Of which already exists in Mythic+ since deaths subtract time.



But then nothing becomes an issue. Because you can get all the mana back. Heal up. Wait for cool downs. Etc. Which means it isn't difficult it just becomes a waiting game to complete things. You would wait after every single pull. If you honestly thing majority of groups would not then you don't really understand players as a whole. Capable groups would push but any difficult trash packs or affixs would wait.

Yes it does suck that people that can't have uninterrupted 15-30 mins. But as you say life happens. Just chalk it up to "random" and complete the run with out the timer. You can't design a game solely around people that have limited play otherwise even your suggestions wouldn't work out. Because what if I can only play in 5 min chunks? Shouldn't I get catered to in game design where all Mythic+ runs only last 5 mins? Of course that is an extreme example but at some point people need to just adapt to the game rather then having the game adapt to them.

Not everything needs to suit all players.

I’m not referring solely to people with limited play time. Anyone can be subject to a DC from time to time (as a single example). Actually, M+ without a timer where you wait for Hero on every single pull would be horrible for players with limited time.... you’d be in there for hours.

Also, limited resurrections are not the same as a timer because you only lose stacks on death, not because someone had to afk.

There is, and always has been, difficult content in WOW without timers. Im yet to see bad groups clear Mythic raids simply by waiting for CD’s to be up each and every pull.

I believe too many people focus on how M+ is now, and simply picture it without the timer rather than what it could be. Many of the points raised can be designed around.

[HCLM]

If you want to remove the timers and have similar difficulty everything would have to deal 100% dmg more, and get additional affix on top of that