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  1. #161
    Banned Rochana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    I hated challenge modes from the moment they introduced them because I do not enjoy playing against the timer.
    Same.

    x10 Same

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    M+ without a timer becomes an interesting challenge in approach using thought in lieu of simplistic zerg tactics. Without a timer, more specs become viable.

    And this will surprise far more people than it should, but some of us just want to play a game for challenge. In fact, you can actually make a case that many more people preferred it this way since there were 5 to 10 times more people playing when it was that way compared to today.
    There is no challenge in ccing mobs pre pull and kill them one by one.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    M+ without a timer becomes an interesting challenge in approach using thought in lieu of simplistic zerg tactics. Without a timer, more specs become viable.

    And this will surprise far more people than it should, but some of us just want to play a game for challenge. In fact, you can actually make a case that many more people preferred it this way since there were 5 to 10 times more people playing when it was that way compared to today.
    well untill some very high keys every spec is viable so i cant see how more can become viable... and some specs were performing better than other since vanila...

    and could you explain to me how something you have hours to do, you can die thousand times and use cds on pretty much every group of trash or boss is MORE challenging than having to do it in certain time, careful enough not to overpull bcs dying subtracts time too and timing cds so you dont waste their potential? bcs i somehow cant see that...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    There is no challenge in ccing mobs pre pull and kill them one by one.
    unless you are somehow challenged

  4. #164
    Like a lot of people have said, there's no functional difference between what the OP wants and simply "ignoring" the timer. To me, a lot of the problem with M+, at least as far as PUGs are concerned is the inability to replace group members. If someone leaves the group, you either have to complete it short handed or give up. Thus, my idea is this:

    - There are now two types of keystones: "Timed" and "Untimed" (you always start with a Timed keystone at the beginning of the week)
    - Timed keystones are essentially just as they are now. Untimed keystones have no timer, but also have no group restriction and reward a random dungeon of the same level upon completion
    - When putting a keystone in, there are now two options, "Start (Un)Timed" and "Convert to (Un)Timed" (you can convert to Untimed even in the middle of a run).
    - Converting from Timed to Untimed does not modify the level. Converting from an Untimed to a Timed drops the keystone one level of the same dungeon (this is to prevent players from using Untimed keystone conversions as a method of keeping their keystone from dropping a level on failed timed runs).

    This also has the added advantage of allowing players to drop the level of a keystone without resorting to instance reset shenanigans.

  5. #165
    Life has a timer. Instead of trying to escape from timers, be grateful for things that remind you of the timer you're on because they encourage you to use your time effectively.
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    She lost against Arthas for purpose. She wanted to feed Quel'thalas to hungering darkness.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Wysmark View Post
    Is it really challenging though? More like stressful.. and those IMO aren't the same. And sometimes bad RnG, lag or other stuff simply decide the fate of a run

    Frankly I found TBC dungeons more tactical back in the day as you actually had to stop at each pack, and mark them up. Threat was a thing, as was casters going Oom on bossfights, so it wasn't hard to spot the good/bad players during say a Karazhan run
    Are you actually telling us that BC dungeons were harder cause you had to stop to sheep than a high key today ?

    sigh ...

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

    Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.
    ........FFS. You cannot be serious...If you don't like it, don't play it. Friggin' snowflakes are infecting everything it seems.
    Last edited by Touchthereaper; 2020-02-24 at 06:25 PM.

  8. #168
    I'd be much more willing to start doing Mythic+ if there was no timer. People already have enough incentive to rush through if they value their own time; I don't think there needs to be more time-based incentive than that. It'd be nice to not feel punished for having to take 2 minutes to do something IRL during a dungeon, or for taking time to type to your group.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    my point still stands, even if the m+ without time is addition not replacement, if it gives gear comparable to timed runs people wouldnt run timed runs, bcs people always choose the path of least resistance... if the reward is way lower, or the difficulty much higher i have no issue
    Oh gosh.. if only there were a simple way around that....

    - Mythic Timed (as now)
    - Mythic Cool ( no timer, but Dungeon always have Skittish in addition other affixes - Skittish because that would make CC more worthwhile to use)

  10. #170
    I understand what your are asking for but to be fair the timer is pretty generous if they are running keys at their skill level. With out the timer the challenge becomes meaningless and everyone will be doing +15's and Blizzard might as well get rid of normal, heroic, and mythic 0 - 14's. I hope the torghast tower in shadowlands is sort of what your talking about. Solo/small group content with no time limit but still challenging.

  11. #171
    I read all the arguments but i still don't see a problem. You can choose to ignore the timer. And get loot anyway. Without the timer there is not really a challenge. Because the timer is what makes Mythic+ difficult.
    With unlimited time everyone can do 20s. There is no challenge anymore. So you just get loot for nothing basically.

  12. #172
    Don't have a hard crowd control like sheep? Not invited. Don't have strong single target DPS? Not invited.

    This won't solve any meta problems, it will just make a worse meta.

  13. #173
    Without the timer this might actually be enjoyable.

  14. #174
    Stood in the Fire KrotosTheTank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wysmark View Post
    Oh gosh.. if only there were a simple way around that....

    - Mythic Timed (as now)
    - Mythic Cool ( no timer, but Dungeon always have Skittish in addition other affixes - Skittish because that would make CC more worthwhile to use)
    It's pretty clear to see how out of touch you are with how things function at consequential difficulties.

    First, Skittish isn't really a problem for any good group or tank, particularly if you have a rogue or hunter in the group.

    Second, I saw back in a way earlier post you felt that TBC dungeons were "tactical" because threat was a problem and because you had to CC. You do realize that being forced to stand still for intermittent periods of time doing literally nothing isn't difficult and it's actually extremely boring. Forcing CC also meant that if you did not play a class with the proper CC in specific dungeons then good luck getting in. Going oom? DPS players going oom is stupid gameplay, again just standing still and waiting wanding shit until it died. That took no skill.

    It sounds like you just want to play Classic WoW, which is fine, honestly, but don't try to bastardize arguably one of the best things blizzard has added to the game in a long time. You have a kid that causes you to step away for a while then you find content that allows for that. In this no timer scenario people would still want to get rid of players who slow them down because at the end of the day they're doing the dungeon to get gear and standing around doesn't help that.

    Your best bet in the mMo that WoW is is to find players with your same situation and play with them, problem solved. I've run with plenty of casual players and in much of the content i do with them i don't mind if they step away because it's known upfront. I'm not going to take them to a 15+ that i'm trying to time because it's a waste of my own time.

    TL: DR - find people to play with and ignore the timer.

    P.S. - aoe zerg sounds "faceroll" and "easy" but feel free to try it yourself when half the mobs cast or give necrotic, or bolster, or burst, or there's explosives, or sanguine or literally all the things blizz added to make doing this more difficult. CC, OOM, and Threat aren't difficulty.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    There is no challenge in ccing mobs pre pull and kill them one by one.
    There's no challenge in a +15 with current gear. What's your point? Playing against a timer isn't fun for a lot of people, and since most keys over +15 the vast majority don't give a damn about timing, i don't really see an issue here. Over a +15 completion each week it's basically just an e-peen race.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    There's no challenge in a +15 with current gear. What's your point? Playing against a timer isn't fun for a lot of people, and since most keys over +15 the vast majority don't give a damn about timing, i don't really see an issue here. Over a +15 completion each week it's basically just an e-peen race.
    My point were to be disingenuous against a disingenuous post. To explain it further, boiling down current m+ to rush rush rush is the same as me saying all you need to do is to cc 2-3 enemies then kill them 1 by 1... neither is difficult nor do they give an accurate picture of what actually goes on in the dungeons in both cases.

  17. #177
    i dont really see an issue, all you have to do is ignore the timer and set up your key to be just going for completion. thats how i do it. some keys i want to push the timer others i want an easy run and not care about the timer so when i setup a team i set the expectations accordingly.

    i actually liked challenge modes they were a cool extra feature but nothing you were forced to do as all you got were transmogs/mount so not sure why people are against the idea since if you hated them all you have to do is not do them lol

    i will say visions i don't like but mainly because that is more or less forced gameplay as corruption is major part of your dps and not having corruption resistance hurts other parts of gameplay kinda of forcing you to do them which i do not find enjoyable. if it wasnt for the need of corruption resistance i would never touch visions lol
    Last edited by Mantra01; 2020-02-24 at 08:11 PM. Reason: added

  18. #178
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

    Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.
    If you fail the timer you still get a chest at the end don't you? Just group up with all of the other people you seem to know who don't like the timer, and do a run and ignore the timer.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    There's no challenge in a +15 with current gear. What's your point? Playing against a timer isn't fun for a lot of people, and since most keys over +15 the vast majority don't give a damn about timing, i don't really see an issue here. Over a +15 completion each week it's basically just an e-peen race.
    You just argued against yourself so hard it’s laughable. Seriously, take a second to read what you typed, realize that on one hand it argues FOR time to make something challenging, and in the other hand argues that nontimed keys aren’t necessary, as you put it “the vast majority don’t care about timing.”

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Wysmark View Post
    Oh gosh.. if only there were a simple way around that....

    - Mythic Timed (as now)
    - Mythic Cool ( no timer, but Dungeon always have Skittish in addition other affixes - Skittish because that would make CC more worthwhile to use)
    soo thats M+ with skittish, just without timer... im sorry, but way around what did you think this was?

    as i said much lower rewards or much higher difficulty, skittish doesnt add much difficulty, just instead of 100times you would wipe 105 times...
    more of a way like you can only have certain amount of deaths in run, or zero wipes or whatnot, that would be a way around it, not adding something that adds almost zero difficulty especially when you actualy have all the time in the world to pull mobs in extremely small groups, thats not adding difficulty, that just takes more time...

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