Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[Hinastorm]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

[Sharby]

There already is M+ without a timer, its called Mythic 0.

[Shinrael]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

One chest? As in one guaranteed item instead of having a chance for 2-3?

- - - Updated - - -

There already is M+ without a timer, its called Mythic 0.

I don't think that was the point.

[A Chozo]

That could be fun.

There already is M+ without a timer, its called Mythic 0.

That's not the point.

[Jonnusthegreat]

There already is M+ without a timer, its called Mythic 0.

Literally doesn't understand m+.

[Sharby]

That could be fun.




That's not the point.

What is the point then?


A cooked key still has a guaranteed reward, I don't see how removing the timer makes it any different.

[A Chozo]

A cooked key still has a guaranteed reward, I don't see how removing the timer makes it any different.

Without the timer, the players doing the dungeon wouldn't have the expectation to run it on time nor the pressure of that time even existing, and it would be more difficulty than the default Mythic.

[Sharby]

Without the timer, the players doing the dungeon wouldn't have the expectation to run it on time nor the pressure of that time even existing, and it would be more difficulty than the default Mythic.

But there already isn't an expectation to run it on time unless you are planning on pushing, which should be established at the start of the instance anyhow, especially if one is pugging.

[Izalla]

I might actually do them if they were like this. I hated challenge modes from the moment they introduced them because I do not enjoy playing against the timer.

[A Chozo]

But there already isn't an expectation to run it on time

There is, independent of any intended purpose of the group because the timer exists.

[nyjl]

if you are a gamedesigner and you cannot come up with a good idea just put into some shit a time limit and slap a leaderboard on top, stupid people will be happy as shit

[arandomuser]

I like that idea, instead of being rushed for time itd be nice if you could just get a group of people to clear a key for some upgrades, instead you really cant find groups to just get in M+ because of the culture of needing everyone overgeared in order to time it, or the IO gods will smite you

[Musta]

Yeah i never liked time trials. Maybe just ramp up the difficulty and be done with it?

[Ladey Gags]

The current swarm of hive minded sheep who have zero internal worlds and thus crave stress dictates that this will never happen

[Kalcifur]

There is, independent of any intended purpose of the group because the timer exists.

That's only a true statement for people incapable of forming sentences in a language shared by other players in a group. Social expectations (like timing the key) are entirely constructed concepts and can be upheld or dismissed with a basic level of communication and common sense. To say anything else is delusional and deflects from the true insecurity and frustration with challenges in the game.

The timer isnt the scary thing. The real reason people blame the timer for their problems is because they are too ashamed to admit that they dont want to get good enough to clear keys.

And before anyone bothers, no, this isnt me telling people to get gud or whatever idiot phrase is common these days. I just prefer it if people were honest, and this is a very dishonest thread.

[Hinastorm]

That's only a true statement for people incapable of forming sentences in a language shared by other players in a group. Social expectations (like timing the key) are entirely constructed concepts and can be upheld or dismissed with a basic level of communication and common sense. To say anything else is delusional and deflects from the true insecurity and frustration with challenges in the game.

The timer isnt the scary thing. The real reason people blame the timer for their problems is because they are too ashamed to admit that they dont want to get good enough to clear keys.

And before anyone bothers, no, this isnt me telling people to get gud or whatever idiot phrase is common these days. I just prefer it if people were honest, and this is a very dishonest thread.

I fully admit me, and the people I run with, probably are not good enough to run high keys.

The point is, a timed hard 5 man, and a hard 5 man, are 2 very very different experiences.

I'm not suggesting taking away current m+, just give us an option to do, say, a +7, without a timer on it, with a predictable reward at the end.

I personally would run way more dungeons if this were to exist.

[Sharby]

I fully admit me, and the people I run with, probably are not good enough to run high keys.

The point is, a timed hard 5 man, and a hard 5 man, are 2 very very different experiences.

I'm not suggesting taking away current m+, just give us an option to do, say, a +7, without a timer on it, with a predictable reward at the end.

I personally would run way more dungeons if this were to exist.

But I don't understand, this already exists.



If you fail to time a dungeon it doesn't matter how long you take after the fact someone in the group is still guaranteed loot. If you are running dungeons with friends then you all should be on the same level of communication and have a mutual understanding that you're going for completion, not time.


The timer only exists to make the key go up or down a level, iirc you get more loot for timing, but you don't get no loot for not timing. So I don't see why this warrants a separate mode.

[Musta]

But I don't understand, this already exists.



If you fail to time a dungeon it doesn't matter how long you take after the fact someone in the group is still guaranteed loot. If you are running dungeons with friends then you all should be on the same level of communication and have a mutual understanding that you're going for completion, not time.


The timer only exists to make the key go up or down a level, iirc you get more loot for timing, but you don't get no loot for not timing. So I don't see why this warrants a separate mode.

Because you can never up a key without the timer.

[Sharby]

Because you can never up a key without the timer.

Yeah but if you just want to complete it, the timer shouldn't matter, and since the baseline expectation is to time the key, you shouldn't join pugs without stating your intent.


If anything they just need to allow you to manually lower your key's level without having to do the dungeon reset strat.

[exochaft]

Because you can never up a key without the timer.

People seem to view the timer as just a pacemaker, but it also serves as a safety check on the key. The reality is that generally if your group cannot complete a key in time, the content is too difficult for you and/or your group is undergeared. If the timer didn't exists yet you could still finish a key in a reasonable amount of time, then your group's issue is likely execution and not the difficulty/timer. It's also a service in some ways to pugs, as you'd find the key completion rate drop and toxicity exacerbated to even higher levels if you could easily obtain high level keys yet not have the skill/gear to clear them in a timely fashion.

All that being said, I'm not really a fan of r.io, but it's mostly because people tend to not use it correctly and it's reliance on a 3rd party add-on. I do think there's some quality of life things that could be done to M+ in general to make things a bit easier, such as being able to lower keys in a more effective manner than constantly resetting the instance. I'd also be a fan of bringing back the Bwonsamdi buff to some degree, as it only helps you complete a key instead of push a key.