Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[Tech614]

In the end it's still a dps check

If the fight is patchwerk sure, if it's not enrage timer is more then a dps check. If you can understand that a M+ timer is more then a dps check you should be able to comprehend this, it's not rocket science.

[Awyee]

shorturl.at/wAILS

Here, now link yours or get lost

fake link, zero experience

Stop pretending like you have a clue when you talk about whether m+ is challenging

[docterfreeze]

If the fight is patchwerk sure, if it's not enrage timer is more then a dps check. If you can understand that a M+ timer is more then a dps check you should be able to comprehend this, it's not rocket science.

Literally the only reason you hit enrage on a boss is because it's not taking enough damage. Doesn't matter if that's because you're doing mechanics inefficiently, putting too many CD's into adds, or whatever it may be. At the end of the day the boss isn't taking enough damage and you hit enrage. The solution is always to get more damage on the boss through whatever method that may be.

[Tiwack]

I don't see why we can't be allowed to hide the timer and death-counter in the first place for the groups that are just aiming to finish the dungeon.

I really don't get why they think this timed concept is more interesting than your regular old enrage mechanic check on bosses and your achievements for not dying during the clear with some vanity awards. All this key-business stinks altogether.

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But optimizing uptime, doing mechanics efficiently, that all comes down to optimizing dps. In the end it's still a dps check, and optimizing your strategy is just as important as upgrading your gear. On other bosses enrage timers were much less of a threat, and as we get better gear they will cease to be a threat entirely. Not the case with m+, the timer is always the goal.

Bosses gain hp with scaling difficulty keeping enrage timers relevant.

[ShmooDude]

No timer run lul, yea so lets just have 3 tank 2 healer teams impossible to die doing +30s. Brilliant.

And this is a problem precisely why? The item level stops scaling at 10 (or 15) so unless it's more efficient loot per hour, there's no point in doing so except to say you did it.

Is it only mythic+ though that ppl have a problem with? Any BG where you gather resources, cap flags basically is on a timer as are Island expeditions. And even in cases without timer? I mean..whenever I do a timewalking dungeon or a daily heroic...it is always pull, pull, rush, rush. And inevitably to the point where the tank gets cocky, we wipe and the corpse run makes the instance take longer than slightly more careful pulls would have made it.

But that's because in all your examples you're competing vs another team (who plays under the same rules/timers you do).

In mythic+, your competition IS the timer so that makes it distinctly different. If M+ was a race against another team, then it would be comparable.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

No, as its only challenging with the timer.
I have outlined a way to have no timer keys still be valuable for the progression system, but frankly I wouldn't expect it.

Its just not the point of the system.

It rewards too much for too little without a timer in place.

[Tiwack]

worst take of the day

No, they're right, it's literally the classic and easy solution attempt into making your boring game a fresh competitive esport.

[Aesahaettr]

I'm not a fan of racing against the clock, so I'd enjoy it more without a timer.

But even now if the time runs out you can still complete and get rewards, so I can live with the current system. If the timer booted you out I'd feel very differently.

[froschhure]

M+ with timer should reward cosmetic rewards then, if everyone hates is that much... But please nothing that is obtainable through raids.

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I do enjoy the "Time-thing", but i can understand why others do not.

[Biomega]

I'm not a fan of racing against the clock, so I'd enjoy it more without a timer.

So ignore the timer. Find people like you, run any key you want, and all you'll lose is a piece of loot for not beating the timer. You still get some loot, you still get the weekly chest, and you don't have to care one iota about the timer.

If there wasn't a timer, the top keys would be a slog with extremely tanky setups that sacrifice DPS for survival and take ludicrous amounts of time to clear the dungeon. Do you want that to be the state of the game? Going into LFD and seeing groups go "900k HP or more ONLY, link pieces with avoidance" or bullshit like that?

The timer is a bar for DPS players just like incoming damage is a bar for tanks and healers. It's a necessary component of the system in order to prevent degenerate strategies, and to demand a certain level of performance from players for a given key level. That's as it should be - you want to play key X, you need to perform accordingly. Effort -> reward.

[Kehego]

ITT: players who want easy content to reward them the same way hard content does.

M+ is challenging because of the timer. If you could take an hour to fight every trash mob, where's the difficulty? Your healer going OOM? lol

[Torgent]

"I'm not good enough to do m+ in time, but want to feel like I'm a m+ pusher. Take the timer away, Blizz!"

If you don't want to play to the timer, ignore the timer and take your chest. You don't deserve to have your key upgraded, because you failed the key. Without the timer, M+ is meaningless. They aren't hard, they are just difficult to complete within time when you get to high levels.

[Aesahaettr]

So ignore the timer. Find people like you, run any key you want, and all you'll lose is a piece of loot for not beating the timer. You still get some loot, you still get the weekly chest, and you don't have to care one iota about the timer.

If there wasn't a timer, the top keys would be a slog with extremely tanky setups that sacrifice DPS for survival and take ludicrous amounts of time to clear the dungeon. Do you want that to be the state of the game? Going into LFD and seeing groups go "900k HP or more ONLY, link pieces with avoidance" or bullshit like that?

The timer is a bar for DPS players just like incoming damage is a bar for tanks and healers. It's a necessary component of the system in order to prevent degenerate strategies, and to demand a certain level of performance from players for a given key level. That's as it should be - you want to play key X, you need to perform accordingly. Effort -> reward.

Way to selectively quote me. I literally acknowledged the fact that you still get rewarded.

I just don't like the rush-rush-rush mentality that timers encourage. There's literally nothing that will make me enjoy that, and it's why I don't run mythics all that often.

I'd rather the challenge came from mechanics that strongly punish mistakes. That's all.

If you feel differently, that's fine, but I personally dislike timers.

[Tiwack]

So ignore the timer. Find people like you, run any key you want, and all you'll lose is a piece of loot for not beating the timer. You still get some loot, you still get the weekly chest, and you don't have to care one iota about the timer.

If there wasn't a timer, the top keys would be a slog with extremely tanky setups that sacrifice DPS for survival and take ludicrous amounts of time to clear the dungeon. Do you want that to be the state of the game? Going into LFD and seeing groups go "900k HP or more ONLY, link pieces with avoidance" or bullshit like that?

The timer is a bar for DPS players just like incoming damage is a bar for tanks and healers. It's a necessary component of the system in order to prevent degenerate strategies, and to demand a certain level of performance from players for a given key level. That's as it should be - you want to play key X, you need to perform accordingly. Effort -> reward.

There's a ceiling to the rewards, anything beyond a certain +lvl, i forget what it is now, it becomes a game of the scoreboards/bragging rights.

[BrintoSFJ]

A mode with time limit has always been a staple for challenge since the beginning of gaming. Hardcore players always chased after lowest time to complete a stage/mission etc, this is not something I like, so I always stay away from this kind of hardcore playstyle. Perhaps those who can not fit to this playstyle should do the same?

[Tiwack]

"I'm not good enough to do m+ in time, but want to feel like I'm a m+ pusher. Take the timer away, Blizz!"

If you don't want to play to the timer, ignore the timer and take your chest. You don't deserve to have your key upgraded, because you failed the key. Without the timer, M+ is meaningless. They aren't hard, they are just difficult to complete within time when you get to high levels.

They're hard because of the increasing dmg/hp scaling combined with the affixes applied on top. Both of which have nothing to do with a timer. If people pull through they should get their reward regardless of the time it took them to get there. This timer stuff belongs in a different category like vanity/competition not fun/relaxing gameplay.

[Elbob]

They're hard because of the increasing dmg/hp scaling combined with the affixes applied on top. Both of which have nothing to do with a timer. If people pull through they should get their reward regardless of the time it took them to get there. This timer stuff belongs in a different category like vanity/competition not fun/relaxing gameplay.

You get loot regardless if you hit the timer, and with the potency of cds the timer does add difficulty cause if you could hold cds for every tough pack keys would be wayyy easier. This whole thread just screams of people who are too anxious about their play and stress about the idea of their mistakes and poor decisions being visible to whole grps of players.

[Kokolums]

if you are a gamedesigner and you cannot come up with a good idea just put into some shit a time limit and slap a leaderboard on top, stupid people will be happy as shit

That would actually be cool IF Blizzard ever developed a leaderboard for M+. But they never did. I would have a public posting of the fastest timed run on the server for each dungeon. About 3/4ths of the way through the current season, for each dungeon, Blizzard would reveal the *least* played tank, the *least* played healer, and the top 3 *least* played dps. A new leaderboard would go up for the final 2 months tracking best times for teams comprised specifically of those 5 class/spec combos. Fastest time at the end of the season on that second leaderboard wins a big prize.

[Biomega]

There's a ceiling to the rewards, anything beyond a certain +lvl, i forget what it is now, it becomes a game of the scoreboards/bragging rights.

While ilvl doesn't improve past M+14 and the weekly chest doesn't go past M+15, you do get extra scaling through more loot for higher key levels.

The very highest key levels are mostly for prestige or the challenge itself, I suppose, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Making timers meaningless, however, would make the top end of keys EXTREMELY tedious. Nobody wants to spend 2 hours dodging boss mechanics to whittle down their 800m HP with 3 tanks and 2 healers.

[docterfreeze]

Bosses gain hp with scaling difficulty keeping enrage timers relevant.

Enrage timers get easier with gear no matter the difficulty. Boss hp also will go down through nerfs later in tiers.