Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[Penegal]

More or harder mechanics don't equal hard. Moving your legs is not very hard for most but running 100m in under 10 seconds is pretty damn hard.

There is some easy money for you to catch at MDI if those dungeons are so easy for you.

All of the mechanics in the dungeons are fairly simple. You don't have hard overlaps and you have some mobs that just need to be interrupted, isolated or kited. The timer makes it hard because you need to pull bigger groups on higher keys to keep up with the throughput required as well as manage spikes of damage that can become lethal at those levels. Removing the timer makes it nearly trivial.

I have a feeling you misinterpreted what I wrote.

[daenerys]

Without the timer, the players doing the dungeon wouldn't have the expectation to run it on time nor the pressure of that time even existing, and it would be more difficulty than the default Mythic.

This just sounds like an issue with communication between the leader and the group. When forming a group the leader can put in notes about their goals for the run, and after the group is formed can talk with the group about their goals. The groups that fall apart are the ones that don't well communicate their goals ahead of time. If the leader before hand lists the group as a push till finish regardless of time run, and communicates that with the group than anyone who's only there for time and io will likely leave before the group even starts.

[DechCJC]

How do you decide what level of key that you get then? If the only factor is whether or not you 'finish' it, then surely eventually everyone would just be spamming max level keys? Sure, the dungeons could take hours and hours, but +30s and stuff could totally be possible.

The only scenario that I would be ok with is if you're given the option to turn off the timer for a specific dungeon and you immediately get rewards as if you failed the chest, dropping the key down 1 level. Frankly, I think this is a silly proposition and not worth the time of the devs, just fail the dungeon or go with friends with similar mindsets if you don't want to feel rushed. There would be basically no one that would want to join groups that were guaranteed to fail, everyone wants at least a chance to beat it.

[Cæli]

M+ without timer enforced that gives gear and upgrades key with no limit
Timer that still exists to make m+ groups compete and have a ranking of the most skilled players, with the region ranking #displayed in the character panel and on armory
Good compromise?

[Dark-Sider]

I have the following to offer:

Just make it selectable if you want to have timed m+ run or an non-timed run. (e.g. two fonts, or two slots in one font, a select option within the font popup).

Non-Timed Keystone will reward the chest of a "just in time" run without the upgrade. So finishing a non-timed keystone will reward you with another keystone of the same level. Not clearing the dungeon will downgrade the keystone.

Timed runs work unchanged.

[Carcimomim]

The timer is really what makes it a challenge. The affixes are beatable, sometimes that takes longer to for some than others. The timer is there to provide a sense of urgency to complete the key. You called me arrogant because I said get good, but that’s the purpose of the key system to get better and beat the next level. The timer is the easiest method of measuring success in keys as well as a benchmark to beat.
It’s arrogance to think it needs to go because it’s an inconvenience. It’s supposed to be an inconvenience. It’s not blizzard’s fault life happens. The purpose of the key system is for progressive improvement. So again, get better to beat the timer. It’s not arrogance, it’s the purpose of the system.

[facefist]

All of the mechanics in the dungeons are fairly simple. You don't have hard overlaps and you have some mobs that just need to be interrupted, isolated or kited. The timer makes it hard because you need to pull bigger groups on higher keys to keep up with the throughput required as well as manage spikes of damage that can become lethal at those levels. Removing the timer makes it nearly trivial.

I have a feeling you misinterpreted what I wrote.

I did yeah, for some reason I did not read the post you quoted. I agree with you completely, current dungeons would be trivial without timer.

[DechCJC]

I have the following to offer:

Just make it selectable if you want to have timed m+ run or an non-timed run. (e.g. two fonts, or two slots in one font, a select option within the font popup).

Non-Timed Keystone will reward the chest of a "just in time" run without the upgrade. So finishing a non-timed keystone will reward you with another keystone of the same level. Not clearing the dungeon will downgrade the keystone.

Timed runs work unchanged.

Why should it offer the same reward as doing it in time? If anything, it should be the reward of failing the chest at the very most.

[Penegal]

I have the following to offer:

Just make it selectable if you want to have timed m+ run or an non-timed run. (e.g. two fonts, or two slots in one font, a select option within the font popup).

Non-Timed Keystone will reward the chest of a "just in time" run without the upgrade. So finishing a non-timed keystone will reward you with another keystone of the same level. Not clearing the dungeon will downgrade the keystone.

Timed runs work unchanged.

Here's my counter-offer:

When you choose "untimed", you just get 2 items and your key goes down by one level and your weekly chest caps out at +10. You also have no timer.

[Liftinmammals]

I think the time is a good thing. It pushes you to be fast and effective. It takes time to learn pulls and be efficient players in those dungeons especially at a high key level. Ever since the release of challenge modes in MoP I think the timed dungeons were an amazing things. It gave players the ability to tackle content that made them stand out among the crowd. It'd be nice if they brought those back.

[NatePsy]

All I see are people wanting their cake and being able to eat it too. Honestly you've established you have a group of people to do keys with, great, now progress slowly to try and push those keys higher just like any other group of friends would. Your argument, summed up is that the premade finder is toxic but you have a group of friends to do M+ with, great, you don't need to worry about the toxic element.

M+ is just not built for people like you that want no timers on them, they're not made to be like that and should never be made like that because of the loot on offer at the higher levels of keys. The efficiency required is the only reason why they're nearly on par with Mythic raid level loot.

The reason Mythic raid loot is higher is because it requires more co-ordination and getting a full group of 20 players that are competent enough to complete the content versus a group of 5 players where relying on bigger groups of skilled players is much less of a thing, so they've added a timer onto these things to justify the loot offered at the end of the dungeon/weekly chest.

At this point if you're clamoring for a non-timer dungeon where it can still upgrade, then you're just not cut out for M+, sorry about it. To me you strike me as a lesser skilled player that is irritated that you can't access the higher level loot because you lack the ability to perform to the level required for said loot (And rightly so, it's higher level loot.)

The only time I'd ever be okay with non-timer dungeons that still reward loot and still upgrade would be if the mob hp/damage was also increased as a consequence for choosing a non-timer run. Your argument is stupid honestly because M+ still offers a chance at loot for completion, you just don't get additional amounts like you would if you timed it.

TLDR: Don't be greedy, be glad you even get loot for completion.

[Kolvarg]

The timer is really what makes it a challenge. The affixes are beatable, sometimes that takes longer to for some than others. The timer is there to provide a sense of urgency to complete the key. You called me arrogant because I said get good, but that’s the purpose of the key system to get better and beat the next level. The timer is the easiest method of measuring success in keys as well as a benchmark to beat.
It’s arrogance to think it needs to go because it’s an inconvenience. It’s supposed to be an inconvenience. It’s not blizzard’s fault life happens. The purpose of the key system is for progressive improvement. So again, get better to beat the timer. It’s not arrogance, it’s the purpose of the system.

It is pretty arrogant that you assume that people don't want the timer because they just aren't good enough to beat it, though.

The key system provides an increasing challenge regardless of the timer. A +15 dungeon will still be much harder than a +1 dungeon even if you have no timer on either.
Of course the timer makes it harder, but like you said yourself, it's an inconvenience that provides a sense of urgency. Not everyone seeks, much less enjoys, that sense of urgency.

I for one know I'm perfectly capable of beating the timer (certainly on the lower levels, at least ), but the fact that there is a timer, even if the chance of me not completing is miniscule, just provides unnecessary anxiety that I don't want from a game. And more often than not it just makes me play the game less than I would have otherwise. Some people just don't like timed content, that would otherwise be just fine without the timer - especially if the timer is simply optional.

Most people enjoy hiking more than sprinting.

[dragi]

I have an idea.... let they make loot chest next to entrance available from beginning...
You HAVE MYTHIC 0 WITHOUT TIMER. It's no other options to rate our run except timer.

[Kolvarg]

M+ is just not built for people like you that want no timers on them, they're not made to be like that and should never be made like that because of the loot on offer at the higher levels of keys. The efficiency required is the only reason why they're nearly on par with Mythic raid level loot.

Have you considered the possibility that a non-timed Mythic+ could just award weaker gear?

It would be like saying LFR/Normal/Heroic raiding has no place in the game because raiding offers the best gear in the game and is supposed to be about leet gameplay and player coordination that those difficulties don't require.

[Soikona]

then... dont do it?
m+ was created as alternate path of gearing to raids, if you like challenging content without timer raids are still there...

Easier said than done, considering I have got benched In a few guilds now because I refuse to run M+ for the chest. I have stopped playing altogether now because of it and corruption gear (but that’s a topic for another day).

- - - Updated - - -

I have an idea.... let they make loot chest next to entrance available from beginning...
You HAVE MYTHIC 0 WITHOUT TIMER. It's no other options to rate our run except timer.

But we want actual hard content, not content that is stupid easy but made “difficult” because if you don’t do it quick, well, L2P.

[Nagawithlegs]

Ask for another, similar system instead of getting rid of the core component of a popular feature that doesn't cater to you.

Scaling difficulties with rewards, with no timer? Great idea! It's not M+ though.

[Unholyground]

I might actually do them if they were like this. I hated challenge modes from the moment they introduced them because I do not enjoy playing against the timer.

I agree, that is why I did not take part in them either.

[Hero2Zer0]

For someone that likes to try and sound clever in their replies, you really don't have a grasp of what you're talking about. The timer IS the scary thing and it has nothing to do with skill.

For the majority of players, it boils down to human psychology. Even if you all agree to ignore the timer, there's still that little voice in peoples heads that dislikes being told they've failed at something, even if they weren't aiming for it in the first place. Sure, there are some people that don't have that, but most people do. So seeing the timer run out still feels like a failure, even if you weren't aiming to clear it in the first place. It's an additional little stress that really doesn't need to be there.

The whole thing could easily be solved by adding a checkbox to the key when you put it in the pedestal. "Do you want to do a timed run?" If you check yes, you get the timer, the chance of bonus loot and key upgrades. If you check no, you get the difficulty, but without the timer and only the chance of one chest (which is what you get if you fail the timer anyway).

Honestly, from a development point of view, it wouldn't be that hard, all the mechanics exist to do it and it would provide more challenging, but enjoyable content for a lot of players.

I can 100% tell you I don't run Mythic + dungeons for this exact reason.

[cparle87]

Out of the 10's I've ran so far (about 8) only one or two had that one person who felt the need to pull for me (tank) and make it go faster than it should.

Ugh. So many bad memories. I've had terrible luck in that department. I've done so many keys when the healer is the puller. They'll put a shit ton of mobs, then leave me to fight them while they're way up ahead bringing the next pull. Either I die before they get back to multiple packs being pulled with no healer, or the healer gets killed by the mobs they've pulled right as they get them back to the group so now we have even more mess with no healer.

[f4ncybear]

Just write an addon that obfuscates the timer, then create a safe space ingame community to bring everyone that gets spooked by a timer and run keys together no pressure.