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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Why claim something in the original post if you don't actually feel that is the case? You said you feel it is pay to win. It doesn't matter if you claimed otherwise in the original post because you said you feel it is in a later post. You also keep changing what your point is. Not pay to win, pay to win, relying on luck, and now pay to win dps meter.

    There is no pay to win and pay to win dps meter. It is all pay to win. If you are making different levels of pay to win then the issue has nothing to do with being able to buy a "win". It has everything to do with whatever you don't like and using pay to win as a scapegoat instead of better articulating what your true issue is. You also edited your OP to explain you are talking about paying to win the dps meters. Yet you just got done telling me you were not talking about pay to win being bad at all. This isn't just a translation issue between english as a secondary or primary language. You just don't really seem to know what you want to argue and are trying to hard to not be wrong.
    What my OP ASKING and what i feel is YES very diff things...that why i said it. And also i asked 2 things. So my answer i give is on both side.

    If you dont understand now fine...maybe my english sucks to much. Cant make it more clear...lets Agree to disagee . Thank you dude!

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    But thats not good gameplay based purely on luck. And the DIFF maybe not be that that big if you not like top 20 guild in the world. True i agree....but the fact that there is BOE that you can get by not palying the game and you dont even need a boost. Just go to the AH. IS stupid.
    But you can also get BoP's by not playing the game. Because you can pay people gold to carry you. And luck is the entire design of WoW and any drop rate based game. Because you have to win a roll to get things which is luck based. Being able to buy a BoE isn't bad game play. I sold a 430 cloth BoE with a versatility corruption for 100k. I am now 100k richer because I was lucky. BoE's are not bad game play. Corruption on a BoE isn't bad game play.

    It allows you to circumvent luck if you are unlucky. It also means you can get that exact corruption in the next loot lockout meaning you wasted your money. That is how RNG works and it is a core aspect of WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    What my OP ASKING and what i feel is YES very diff things...that why i said it. And also i asked 2 things. So my answer i give is on both side.
    You literally edited your original post to clarify you are talking about paying to win dps meters. The same exact thing you keep stating is the same as how you feel.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #223
    Blizz should've never let BoEs proc corruption...

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But you can also get BoP's by not playing the game. Because you can pay people gold to carry you. And luck is the entire design of WoW and any drop rate based game. Because you have to win a roll to get things which is luck based. Being able to buy a BoE isn't bad game play. I sold a 430 cloth BoE with a versatility corruption for 100k. I am now 100k richer because I was lucky. BoE's are not bad game play. Corruption on a BoE isn't bad game play.

    It allows you to circumvent luck if you are unlucky. It also means you can get that exact corruption in the next loot lockout meaning you wasted your money. That is how RNG works and it is a core aspect of WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You literally edited your original post to clarify you are talking about paying to win dps meters. The same exact thing you keep stating is the same as how you feel.
    YEAH my QUESTION yes. When i ask P2W i mean by dps. So ppls know the question. Becuz p2w can be so much other things ....so i wanted to be clear that the question is about dps.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    YEAH my QUESTION yes. When i ask P2W i mean by dps. So ppls know the question. Becuz p2w can be so much other things ....so i wanted to be clear that the question is about dps.
    Pay to Win is Pay to Win. For DPS or anything else it is still all pay to win. You either have it or you do not.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Pay to Win is Pay to Win. For DPS or anything else it is still all pay to win. You either have it or you do not.
    Dont get what you mean but ok. Im done with you lol. Dont mean it in a bad way just i already explained all. Cant make it more clear and if you dont get it ok... Cant do it better so agree to disagree Clearly some think like me in this thread and preach and others. Have nothing more to say!

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    It's ignorant and short-sighted people like this that really help greedy companies like Blizzard ruin games.

    Yes, you've always been able to buy BoEs on the AH, but in the past, i.e most of WoW's existence, gold wasn't (legally) purchasable via tokens. You couldn't (without cheating) just bust out your credit card and buy great gear. Now you can.

    Now, your next argument is usually along the lines of "but but but you don't suddenly win the game if you have great gear, so how is that pay to WIN, when you're not winning the game".

    Load of shit, that argument. Pay to win doesn't mean you instantly clock the game, instantly 1-shot the hardest bosses, instantly get all achievements, mounts, pets and women.

    It simply means spending external currency to gain an in-game advantage. Look it up. It's not rocket science.

    And PLEASE, for the love of all that's holy, don't say "but but but you can already buy or earn those items in other ways, so how is it an 'in-game advantage'?" It's an in-game advantage because you bought it without earning it. It's in-game power at the flick of a credit card that you would otherwise have had to play the game to achieve. That's kinda the point of MMOs, to put the effort in and earn things. Again, this isn't rocket science here, it's pretty simple shit.

    WoW DOES have P2W mechanics in place at the moment. They certainly aren't as predatory as many other games' mechanics may be. I.e there aren't levels that are locked behind pay walls, or gear otherwise unobtainable that you can only get with $$ (cosmetics aside).

    But anyone claiming that WoW is free of P2W mechanics nowadays is either deluded or outright stupid. It's that simple.
    This is ultimately where I get frustrated, and I try to make sure is made clear. WoW, just like any other game that has a player run economy, is going to have P2W mechanics. I personally consider 3rd party sources to still be a method to P2W, as the mechanical structure is still there. Thus, there's no denying it exists. However, just like with MTX, not all things are created equal. So when I see people saying how WoW is a cash grab, or it's just another P2W game, because of the corruption BoE's, it comes off as very short sighted. Especially because I know someone that spent $50k+ on a garbage mobile game because he wanted to be the top ranked player in his region.

    IMO, there really needs to be some new nomenclature developed as the waters have gotten increasingly muddied over the years. Someway of distinguishing something like what WoW and something like Rift/Clash of clans, or things like BL2 having skin packs that you can buy for $1 vs a game that has predatory, powerful MTX

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    Well i rather work 10h extra and know i get the items then sit wasting 100 of hours of my life and maybe not even get it. Thats winning for me. But go ahead. If you wanna waste 100 of hours more then someone else.

    Good for you man. Im happy for you!
    I think you missed the point. I'm not going to waste the money OR the time for some gear that's going to be replaced later this year. I'm not going for world first (and neither are you), so being top of the meters in some rando guild isn't something I find particularly impressive.

    If someone spent 100 extra hours playing for the gear because they enjoyed doing so, I consider that FAR better than spending 10 extra hours of work (something I presume you don't enjoy doing) just to throw that money away on some hollow victory. At least at the end of the day that first player spent those same 10 hours having fun.

  9. #229
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
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    To a certain extent yeah it is pay to win but this is only something that would matter in the short lived competitive scene that is world first mythic raid clears.

    Also I don't see it as a big deal anyway since the gear you buy becomes obsolete eventually whether it be from a new raid release or new expansion. It's not like other games where there is no power reset every few years.

  10. #230
    This whole idea is stupid, you don't "win" by getting items, you win by reaching some hard goals such as mythic clear/arena rating.
    And even so
    gear, achivements, mounts are and were (in previous expansions) buyable by real money.

    So yes WoW is and has always been Pay to win. Corruption/boe did not change anything.

  11. #231
    This is the millionth time we have seen this idiotic thread

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But you can also get BoP's by not playing the game. Because you can pay people gold to carry you. And luck is the entire design of WoW and any drop rate based game. Because you have to win a roll to get things which is luck based. Being able to buy a BoE isn't bad game play. I sold a 430 cloth BoE with a versatility corruption for 100k. I am now 100k richer because I was lucky. BoE's are not bad game play. Corruption on a BoE isn't bad game play.

    It allows you to circumvent luck if you are unlucky. It also means you can get that exact corruption in the next loot lockout meaning you wasted your money. That is how RNG works and it is a core aspect of WoW.
    I agree with almost all of that....except where the line is crossed and you can pay real world money to obtain those BOEs.

    The problem is that there are two issues which are combining to make things worse: Corrupted BOEs which are providing too much power for how easy they are to obtain, and the gold-selling problem being addressed by the token.

    I'm in full agreement with Blizzard taking control of the gold selling market and eliminating the black market aspect. I have no issues with that. However, I DO have a problem with Blizzard knowingly dropping such powerful BOEs into the market with the full knowledge that it would spike token trading.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I'm in full agreement with Blizzard taking control of the gold selling market and eliminating the black market aspect. I have no issues with that. However, I DO have a problem with Blizzard knowingly dropping such powerful BOEs into the market with the full knowledge that it would spike token trading.
    Except it hasn't spiked token trading. Just as the AH mount didn't spike token trading. Better check for the boogeyman under your bed next.

    https://wowtoken.info/
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #234
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niztheundead87 View Post
    This is the millionth time we have seen this idiotic thread
    And if you hang around, you'll see it continue to pop up.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    Have you not been paying attention to the gaming industry at all?
    i know, people are stupid and will waste money but why does that concern me?
    in pvp corruptions are "weakened", and in pve do i really care that some Joe from Uganda cleared m+ or raid faster than me?

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    He wears 4 corruption pieces with increase of mastery. He got a shit ton million dps through corruption. LOL.
    He wears ZERO BoE tho so that's not the point.

  17. #237
    I wish they would start selling boxes with Loot in the actual store.

    Like the Nya'lotha box we recently had from the Time walking event, or the 445 weapon box from emissary.

    Would be good imo.

    Just imagine the freedom of not being tied down to a weekly lockout or to the "Will it drop loot for me?" RnG.

    These boxes always give loot, So if you buy 10, That's instantly 10 pieces of loot, Something that might've taken weeks to drop from actual raid

  18. #238
    P2Win in a Game with irrelevant, already skill-less PvP and non-challenging PvE content? Who the hell cares.

    If this was any of the good expansions, I probably would.
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    It just sounded ominous as if he would save that info for future use to something, that's all.
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    You read first here.
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  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    This is ultimately where I get frustrated, and I try to make sure is made clear. WoW, just like any other game that has a player run economy, is going to have P2W mechanics. I personally consider 3rd party sources to still be a method to P2W, as the mechanical structure is still there. Thus, there's no denying it exists. However, just like with MTX, not all things are created equal. So when I see people saying how WoW is a cash grab, or it's just another P2W game, because of the corruption BoE's, it comes off as very short sighted. Especially because I know someone that spent $50k+ on a garbage mobile game because he wanted to be the top ranked player in his region.

    IMO, there really needs to be some new nomenclature developed as the waters have gotten increasingly muddied over the years. Someway of distinguishing something like what WoW and something like Rift/Clash of clans, or things like BL2 having skin packs that you can buy for $1 vs a game that has predatory, powerful MTX
    So, you think it's P2W so it's P2W.

    Gotcha dude. Keep that head-canon going. Back here in reality, until there's a cash shop run by Blizzard to buy current tier gear, the game is not P2W no matter how poorly you try to argue the game is somehow negatively impacted by the top .001% of players who actually convert WoW gold from tokens to buy Corrupted gear.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I can't remember BoEs being objectively better than anything you could get inside the raid though
    Me neither. But they still arnt better then anything you can get inside the raid so its all good.

    As for the OP, No. Until the day comes that you can only obtain a real power advantage by buying it with real money, WoW is not P2W. Period. There is no middle ground. There is 1, key factor that determines if any game is pay to win. Its literally in its name. You Have to, no matter what, Pay to get the power needed to win. Not buying that means you will lose, regardless of skill.

    You can declare wow p2w if they start selling gear, in their shop, that is far better then even mythic raiding gear and cannot be obtained in game unless you spend money.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

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