Page 13 of 46 FirstFirst ...
3
11
12
13
14
15
23
... LastLast
  1. #241
    Yes its really bad, Blizzard really has gone down the deep end of bad in this case.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

    Is this good gameplay or not? Pay to win?
    you clearly dont understand what PAY TO WIN means.
    buying gear from ah is NOT pay to win and have been in game since start, so there is nothing wrong with that.

  3. #243
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...
    Do you have any warrants to back up your claim that those good items are being paid for by tokens though? Of course you don't.

    Logic dictates that even if there are some people spending $$ on tokens, that represents only a very small portion of the people doing it. Most are buying these items with gold they made ingame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    Is this good gameplay or not?
    Being able to make gold, and use it in exchange for goods and services from other players is part of the game. If the source of the gold was people paying Blizzard some $$ then I would argue that it is not good gameplay, but Blizzard doesn't actually sell you gold, they are simply facilitating a gold transaction between players. So the source of the gold continues to be through actual gameplay.

    In short: Yes it's fine gameplay when you understand what's actually going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    Pay to win?
    Not at all. Pay to win is not about being able to spend $$ to get something in the game. It's about being required to spend $$ to get something in the game. A game is pay to win when choosing not to spend $$ puts you at a disadvantage. The way that tokens work, this is effectively impossible because if you consider gold as a measure of "winning" the simple fact is that people who rely on tokens for their gold are coming close to last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    Blizzard probly happy about it as they earn more $$$
    Yes, Blizzard make more money from selling tokens. I am not sure why any rational person would see this as a bad thing. For one thing, every token exchange allows the person spending gold to save themselves real money. I would far rather have Blizzard making up their profits from tokens, bought by willing buyers who are happy to spend that cash, than say, a $5 increase to subscriptions across the board.



    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    EDIT: What i mean by p2w is win the damage meter. More dps make dungeon/raid/pvp easyer. One with buyed BIS for real life money VS one with no corrupt or a bad one. Who would you put your money on? Who would you like to have in your raid/dungeon/arena.
    VS the vast majority who got their gear from doing content.

    Number of people who get gear from doing content themselves >> Number of people who get gear by spending gold they made on the AH >> Number of people who get gear by spending gold bought by tokens.

    The problem with your argument is that you're assuming a prevalence of players who spend $$ on tokens to buy awesome gear that simply doesn't exist. Ergo, this is entirely a non-issue.

  4. #244
    There will never be clear border line.
    I know people wich even don't play game except occasionali, but have enough welth to buy all, I mean like mounts, boosts, BMAH stuff, achievements, all ingame stuff possible.
    Still those people are exceptions, but they exist, and it shows that you could always buy content, one way or another.
    Unfair expirience comes from difference in time invested to get amongst top geared players if theyre buying gear.
    At some point becomes more practical to gain RL money and buy gear and gardenwalk trough gamecontent, at that point you play RL, and not a game - its end of gaming pleasure.

  5. #245
    Legendary! Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    6,006
    Going by the mental gymnastics of some folks ITT, Blizz could very well be selling full Mythic tier sets in the shop, and it still wouldn't be P2W because U KENT WINZ ANYTHENG IN AN MMO LUL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  6. #246
    No.

    While the corruption mechanic has elevated BoE's into something that's more desirable, it's no more or less P2W than it has been since forever. It's just the side-effect of tuning being bonkers.

    Corruption is still only for the remainder of this expansion, and we are ditching it come the next expansion for something else. So even if we grant that WoW is P2W because of Corruption, it probably won't be in Shadowlands. I really doubt we are going to have such massive power-jumps early in the expansion, at any rate. Perhaps later in the next expansion, but I still wouldn't call this seasonal carousel P2W.
    Last edited by Santti; 2020-02-25 at 07:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    where do i say that the OP BOE playing the game for you and basicly make you win?
    in the post name, "WOW- Now pay to win?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Basically, yeah.

    They get away from being labeled so by one purchasing power indirectly, though.

    BoEs haven been around for ages, but one has to have their head deep into a company's butt if they are to argue that these items and the corruption attached to them don't give the players quite the crazy, unbalanced edge.
    RNG that one can bypass with real money in any other game would be called P2W.
    im runing m+ and cleared hc nyalotha, usualy topping the dps meters, on some bosses that need more movement i go lower (as im a dk) but i have never been out of top 5 dps in raid or worst dps in dung, yet i only have corruptions for +stats... so either those "amazing" corruptions dont give so much edge or almost nobody have them, so in either way it doesnt seem to have such huge impact as some people suggest...

    i know people runing mythic world first race spent crapload of money on them, but for them even 0.1% increase makes a difference...

  8. #248
    In the final raid tier with a year to go? You’d have to be mad to buy those boes if you weren’t in the world first race. Either ways don’t think it’s really p2w. Why would you want to spend that to get into pug raids/dungeons? Clearly if it’s to get into these runs like you suggested then you’re not running with friends or a guild so why would you care. Half the pugs won’t even spend a hundred gold on a flask for a pug run

  9. #249
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    In your backyard
    Posts
    4,066
    Its definitely p2w. Some corrupted gear is on the level of legendaries in Legion. This is brand new territory.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    So because it takes a ton of money it isn't pay to win?

    You guys have some weird ass definitions of pay to win.
    I don't really understand why you think it's anywhere near being "pay to win" with the amount needed vs time spent.

    When I think "pay to win" I think of crappy mobile games or your every day EA shooter game where if you want some of the best guns easily, you simply buy them (or spend a few dollars on loot boxes). This is opposed to spending time to play the game to get whatever you want. Also, in those "pay to win" games, you usually only need guns or a couple pieces of gear/armor - nowhere near the amount needed to be considered "geared" in WoW.

    In many games you can either spend a bit of money to get something good, or spend a ton of time, so players are more incentivized to spend the quick $10 for a gun. That's absolutely not the case in WoW, where it's easier to spend a few minutes in an assault or vision (or spend more time in a raid) to get good gear, instead of hundreds/thousands of dollars. It's just not the same situation, and the person spending thousands of dollars isn't "winning" more than the person that spent a couple hours in a raid.

    It's a matter of ease. Sure, you can "win" by spending thousands of dollars to deck yourself out, but that's absolutely not the same category as paying $10 for a single gun. The token and AH are not designed to be the exact same thing as a "pay to win" game in the slightest. No one's spending thousands of dollars to get the best gear in WoW for one patch, so it's an imaginary "problem" posed by the OP as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    Im at 100h+ hours ingametime(stopped counting) trying to get a good corr. If i spend that time at work(working extra) i could EASY buy many BOE.
    Well, you're welcome to do so, but it just sounds like you don't like the game anyway, so maybe it's time for a break. You could either spend thousands of dollars to get a few pieces of gear to feel better, or you could spend a fraction of that and get, y'know, Animal Crossing or something in a month and take a breather.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    buying BoE’s has been a thing since
    Classic so if that’s your metric then the game has always been P2W.
    Not a full outfit though.
    Just belts, from molten core.
    But you could always buy your way into a raid,. guilds have been selling loot slots in raids since classic as well.

    Lets not consider blue gear to be p2w because well,. there's just no real power there compared to most epics.

  12. #252
    I love how people still defend it. If these boe-s were directly on the shop, I bet some would still stand by it. We are just a tiny step away from that.

  13. #253
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Its definitely p2w. Some corrupted gear is on the level of legendaries in Legion. This is brand new territory.
    It's definitely not p2w. It's not about the level of power of the gear but about whether paying $$ for it is a most effective means of acquisition. This is as it has always been.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    I love how people still defend it. If these boe-s were directly on the shop, I bet some would still stand by it. We are just a tiny step away from that.
    I love how people make such ludicrously false equivalences - and then act all smugly. Being able to buy boe's directly from the shop would be a massively different proposition.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by bbr View Post
    Not a full outfit though.
    Just belts, from molten core.
    But you could always buy your way into a raid,. guilds have been selling loot slots in raids since classic as well.

    Lets not consider blue gear to be p2w because well,. there's just no real power there compared to most epics.
    well given some blue items were BIS pretty much till AQ or even naxx, i would say we should consider them...
    and you cant buy full outfit of BOE items in retail either, i might be wrong but as a frost DK i think i can buy BOE ring and hands both with horrible stats, so they would have to have some incredibly powerfull corruption effect for me to consider sacrificing secondary stats AND other weaker corruptions from other items i already have...

  15. #255
    Herald of the Titans ercarp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Icecrown
    Posts
    2,927
    No, it's not pay-to-win.

    It's RNG-to-win.

  16. #256
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    In your backyard
    Posts
    4,066
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    It's definitely not p2w. It's not about the level of power of the gear but about whether paying $$ for it is a most effective means of acquisition. This is as it has always been.
    Bullshit, plain and simple. Youve never been able to acquire so much power from boes before and neither were you able to use real money for gold. The easiest way to increase your power beyond heroic, isnt raiding or farming. Its buying tokens.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    I love how people still defend it. If these boe-s were directly on the shop, I bet some would still stand by it. We are just a tiny step away from that.
    we are not a step closer to it since begining of wow...
    and it would be HUGE LEAP if we get gear on shop... ofc there would be people who wouldn mind, there are always people who would prefer to put the credit card in and buy BIS gear, thats why "free to play" games earns a lot of money, but im pretty sure huge majority of people would be against that...
    and given we didnt get any closer to it on over a decade im confident blizz is against it too... maybe when the game will be on its dead bed and they will go to f2p model it will happen, but thats far in the future and even then unlikely

  18. #258
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    In your backyard
    Posts
    4,066
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    we are not a step closer to it since begining of wow...
    and it would be HUGE LEAP if we get gear on shop... ofc there would be people who wouldn mind, there are always people who would prefer to put the credit card in and buy BIS gear, thats why "free to play" games earns a lot of money, but im pretty sure huge majority of people would be against that...
    and given we didnt get any closer to it on over a decade im confident blizz is against it too... maybe when the game will be on its dead bed and they will go to f2p model it will happen, but thats far in the future and even then unlikely
    Theyre making a killing off of token right now and youre dellusional if you think othereise
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Bullshit, plain and simple. Youve never been able to acquire so much power from boes before and neither were you able to use real money for gold. The easiest way to increase your power beyond heroic, isnt raiding or farming. Its buying tokens.
    as a frost dk (afaik) i can buy hands and rings, both with terrible stats, but lets say they would have the best corruptions (although i think i couldnt equip both at the same time if that is the case), that is not much of power progresion compared to gearing up fully in mythic or m+...
    even if id buy those two pieces i still have to farm rest of the equip, i have 16 slots, 2 are those BOE, two are neck and back, so thats still a dozen pieces of gear i have to get from raid or m+... so its "easier" bcs i dont have to farm 14 pieces but 12, and in the time i get those 12 i would probably got other corrupted items that migh be weaker but i can have more of them, and i can use hands/ring with better stats...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Theyre making a killing off of token right now and youre dellusional if you think othereise
    since the price didnt dramaticaly change in 8.3, it means supply and demand havent dramaticaly change either... sooo YOU are delusional

  20. #260
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    In your backyard
    Posts
    4,066
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    as a frost dk (afaik) i can buy hands and rings, both with terrible stats, but lets say they would have the best corruptions (although i think i couldnt equip both at the same time if that is the case), that is not much of power progresion compared to gearing up fully in mythic or m+...
    even if id buy those two pieces i still have to farm rest of the equip, i have 16 slots, 2 are those BOE, two are neck and back, so thats still a dozen pieces of gear i have to get from raid or m+... so its "easier" bcs i dont have to farm 14 pieces but 12, and in the time i get those 12 i would probably got other corrupted items that migh be weaker but i can have more of them, and i can use hands/ring with better stats...

    - - - Updated - - -



    since the price didnt dramaticaly change in 8.3, it means supply and demand havent dramaticaly change either... sooo YOU are delusional
    Lmao those two boes could be close to a 30% dmg increase
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •