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  1. #261
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Not really P2W
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Lmao those two boes could be close to a 30% dmg increase
    i have rank 3 twilight devastation ring which makes 9% of my dmg IN TANK SPEC (as its based on hp)
    for dps its under 5%, and i cant possibly equip other corrupted items with it, so if i equip my better stat ring and corrupted +% of mastery and crit items it increase my dps more...

    eh, why do i even bother with moron like you who just pull a number of his ass without actualy checking it in game... wellcome to ignore
    Last edited by Lolites; 2020-02-25 at 09:30 AM.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I love how people make such ludicrously false equivalences - and then act all smugly. Being able to buy boe's directly from the shop would be a massively different proposition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    we are not a step closer to it since begining of wow...
    and it would be HUGE LEAP if we get gear on shop... ofc there would be people who wouldn mind, there are always people who would prefer to put the credit card in and buy BIS gear, thats why "free to play" games earns a lot of money, but im pretty sure huge majority of people would be against that...
    and given we didnt get any closer to it on over a decade im confident blizz is against it too... maybe when the game will be on its dead bed and they will go to f2p model it will happen, but thats far in the future and even then unlikely
    People say the current situation is not pay to win because even if you dress up in the most OP gear, you're still just a noob to achieve "win". So why would it be different? Basically gear doesn't matter because even with it you still can't achieve the "win". My comment was for this silly argument.

    Right now, this only affects the top guilds really. Because they have the funds (or lends) to buy these up. It's easy to dismiss something in the game while it doesn't affect you. But when it reaches you (the not tops), squealing will be little too late.

    Edit: And if you come with the "well, winning is different for everyone". Then I'd like to point you to the cosmetics (mounts, pets) in the store. Because "winning" for some is in cosmetics.
    Last edited by Lei; 2020-02-25 at 09:40 AM.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Bullshit, plain and simple. Youve never been able to acquire so much power from boes before and neither were you able to use real money for gold. The easiest way to increase your power beyond heroic, isnt raiding or farming. Its buying tokens.
    Please stop for a second and think this through instead of applying simplistic thinking to conclude that I am talking bullshit. Your condescending tone is neither appreciated, nor is it justified.

    Firstly, consider availability: there aren't nearly sufficient available BoE's to make them the de facto gearing mechanism of choice. And how exactly are BoE's being supplied? Yes, by raiders. Doing the content. If a BoE is available on the AH it means that someone did the content.

    Secondly, consider who is buying those BoE's. What evidence do you have that the primary market for them is people who need to spend $$ to buy gold? Precisely zero. That's because the people who typically have that kind of gold are not players who need to spend $$ buying tokens. If anything it's the same people who buy the tokens for gold.

    If you were to take 10 000 of the players on a server (150 000 pieces of gear), you'd probably find only a handful of BoE's bought using token gold. Your assertion that buying tokens to buy gear is the easiest way to obtain ridiculous power is patently nonsense.

  5. #265
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Please stop for a second and think this through instead of applying simplistic thinking to conclude that I am talking bullshit. Your condescending tone is neither appreciated, nor is it justified.

    Firstly, consider availability: there aren't nearly sufficient available BoE's to make them the de facto gearing mechanism of choice. And how exactly are BoE's being supplied? Yes, by raiders. Doing the content. If a BoE is available on the AH it means that someone did the content.

    Secondly, consider who is buying those BoE's. What evidence do you have that the primary market for them is people who need to spend $$ to buy gold? Precisely zero. That's because the people who typically have that kind of gold are not players who need to spend $$ buying tokens. If anything it's the same people who buy the tokens for gold.

    If you were to take 10 000 of the players on a server (150 000 pieces of gear), you'd probably find only a handful of BoE's bought using token gold. Your assertion that buying tokens to buy gear is the easiest way to obtain ridiculous power is patently nonsense.
    Non-sequitur after non-sequitur.. none of that is relevant. Literally none of it. You can buy the best gear with real money. Whether or not its the main way people chose to gear is wholly irrelevant.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    You could always buy BOEs for money, so either wow has always been p2w or never.
    The difference is the "Power Increase" of those BOEs. If you buy 2 BOEs with rank 3 infinite stars then the even bad players can do really high damage. And this will get worse as our corruption resistance increases.

    Corruption effects reduce the value of being a skillful player.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    It's easy to dismiss something in the game while it doesn't affect you.
    my issue is its been in game pretty much since the begining, and over those 15 years it didnt affect me at all, and tbh it didnt even get worse so WHY should i assume it will all of a sudden get worse and/or affect me?

    its the same as with celestial steed, when it was introduced it wa sa harbringer of the apocalypse for people on forums, it meant that very next day we will buy BIS gear on shop and that it will kill wow and... nothing happened, decade later we still only have cosmetics on shop

    im not agains being aware of "threats", but to use analogy, not leaving house bcs a car MIGHT hit me when i go out is a bit ridiculous...

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Secondly, consider who is buying those BoE's. What evidence do you have that the primary market for them is people who need to spend $$ to buy gold? Precisely zero.
    But that is besides the point. The fact is that if you want to, you can go to the auction house and buy really powerful corruption effects with $$ and that is paying real life money to get an impactful in-game advantage. This is the definition of p2w. Maybe only a few players will actually do it but that doesn't change the fact that you can do it.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The difference is the "Power Increase" of those BOEs. If you buy 2 BOEs with rank 3 infinite stars then the even bad players can do really high damage. And this will get worse as our corruption resistance increases.

    Corruption effects reduce the value of being a skillful player.
    if a noob buy and equip two pieces of gear with rank3 infinite stars he will die bcs of corruption effects and do ZERO dmg...
    and even if not WHY ON EARTH do i give a fuck that some random Joe does more dps than me? in pve he is HELPING ME to clear the content, and in pvp corruptions are weakened, and high corruption actualy can kill you sooner than help you...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    But the point is that you're able to do it. If you want to you can go to the auction house and buy really powerful corruption effects with $$ and that is paying real life money to get an impactful in-game advantage.
    you can buy a ferrari but if you are shit at driving it what good does it make to you?

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    People say the current situation is not pay to win because even if you dress up in the most OP gear, you're still just a noob to achieve "win". So why would it be different? Basically gear doesn't matter because even with it you still can't achieve the "win". My comment was for this silly argument.

    Right now, this only affects the top guilds really. Because they have the funds (or lends) to buy these up. It's easy to dismiss something in the game while it doesn't affect you. But when it reaches you (the not tops), squealing will be little too late.

    Edit: And if you come with the "well, winning is different for everyone". Then I'd like to point you to the cosmetics (mounts, pets) in the store. Because "winning" for some is in cosmetics.
    Listen, it's really, really simple:

    1) Do you feel compelled to go out and buy tokens to be able to be able to compete in this game?
    2) Are a signficant number of people in your peer group (ie those you're competing against) doing just that?

    If the answer to either of these questions is "no" then tokens are not pay to win.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    my issue is its been in game pretty much since the begining, and over those 15 years it didnt affect me at all, and tbh it didnt even get worse so WHY should i assume it will all of a sudden get worse and/or affect me?
    .
    Because now Blizzard manipulates both ends of the market. Blizzard is the one who make these crazy OP lucrative items to drop as BoE and they are the ones who sell gold to players to be able buy it.
    When buying gold was not in Blizz's direct hands, it was slightly different.

    With this tactics, not only mounts are seasonal on the shop (shit expansion -> we need money -> put a mount on the shop for whales/collectors), but we can end up with gear being second-hand (word?) shop items. (shit expansion -> we need money -> crazy OP boes rain from the sky for the die hard raiders, we'll say it was an ooopsie)
    Last edited by Lei; 2020-02-25 at 09:54 AM.

  12. #272
    14 pages of LFR raiders that believe buying an Infinite Stars BoE magically makes them win World of Warcraft, because apparently you win MMORPGs.

    Because its the corruption that stops you from finishing Skitra and that +5

    Never change mmo-champion.

    Stay subbed also, your free 13e gives us new raids every 6 months.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    But that is besides the point. The fact is that if you want to, you can go to the auction house and buy really powerful corruption effects with $$ and that is paying real life money to get an impactful in-game advantage. This is the definition of p2w.
    No, that is not the definition of p2w. It's your definition, and it's a pretty poor one, especially if the argument is that you're trying to prove that tokens are some kind of problem.

    As I already said, a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Maybe only a few players will actually do it but that doesn't change the fact that you can do it.
    Sure. But the significance of this fact is directly proportional to how many actually do.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    if a noob buy and equip two pieces of gear with rank3 infinite stars he will die bcs of corruption effects and do ZERO dmg...
    and even if not WHY ON EARTH do i give a fuck that some random Joe does more dps than me? in pve he is HELPING ME to clear the content, and in pvp corruptions are weakened, and high corruption actualy can kill you sooner than help you...

    - - - Updated - - -



    you can buy a ferrari but if you are shit at driving it what good does it make to you?
    If the discussion is "can you buy a very significant power increase for real life money in WoW" then the answer is simply: Yes. More than ever.

    And the corruption effects are not based on skill at all. So even a bad player can get almost full advantage of rank 3 infinite stars. Staying alive will get easier with higher corruption resistance on the cloak.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-02-25 at 10:00 AM.

  15. #275
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    As I already said, a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win
    This the epitome of projection. Youre literally changing the definition so it fits your narrative.. pathetic

    The simple fact that the means exist, to buy the best gear, with real money, is all thats required for a system to be considered pay to win. Show us otherwise please.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    14 pages of LFR raiders that believe buying an Infinite Stars BoE magically makes them win World of Warcraft, because apparently you win MMORPGs.

    Because its the corruption that stops you from finishing Skitra and that +5

    Never change mmo-champion.

    Stay subbed also, your free 13e gives us new raids every 6 months.
    I'm sorry is this good/beneficial for high end raiders then? Do you wish to cough out 2 mill gold every raid tier for crazy OP items?

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    No, that is not the definition of p2w. It's your definition, and it's a pretty poor one, especially if the argument is that you're trying to prove that tokens are some kind of problem.

    As I already said, a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win.



    Sure. But the significance of this fact is directly proportional to how many actually do.
    It's the mainstream definition of pay to win.

    The significance doesn't matter if the question simply is "can you do it?". To that question the answer is: Yes you can.

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Because now Blizzard manipulates both end of the market. Blizzard is the one who make these crazy OP lucrative items to drop as BoE and they are the ones who sell gold to players to be able buy it.
    This argument would make sense were it not for the fact that a token transaction is not just about Blizzard giving you gold for money, but that at the other end, a player is buying a token for gold. So in effect, you're not really paying Blizzard for gold, you're paying another player. It's a closed system, which means that the token market is self limiting.

    In other words, no, Blizzard can't just make tons of BoE's and expect tokens to fly off the shelf. Because the system doesn't work that way.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    I'm sorry is this good/beneficial for high end raiders then? Do you wish to cough out 2 mill gold every raid tier for crazy OP items?
    You dont need to cough out anything to raid, you just need to not be shit.

    World First Race has nothing to do with the raiding scene.

    The top 100-200 guild will still kill the end boss 3-4 weeks after without coughing out anything close to "millions".

    You are all just insanely low skilled players that found the latest scapegoat to blame for your lack of progression as usual with mmo-champion posters.

    At least, with some of you the lack of knowledge shows, and you arent to blame much, but some other posters, dear god the delusions and irrelevancy.
    Last edited by potis; 2020-02-25 at 10:03 AM.

  20. #280
    It’s in the grey area. It’s not P2W per say, you can’t physically go to a blizzard store and buy gear but if you wished to you could buy tokens and buy something off the AH, which obviously has some RNG attached to it.

    Can’t say I’ve even looked on the AH at BOE’s this expansion. Do people actually pay 3 million gold via tokens for a piece of gear than you can go get in mythic +’s?

    Because if so, they need serious help, spending hundreds of real life monies on that.

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