WOW- Now pay to win?

[Lolites]

If the discussion is "can you buy a very significant power increase for real life money in WoW" then the answer is simply: Yes. More than ever.

And the corruption effects are not based on skill at all. So even a bad player can get almost full advantage of rank 3 infinite stars. Staying alive will get easier with higher corruption resistance on the cloak.

well, if you do your "math" in vacuum and ignore other things, like having to "sacrifice" perfect stats or other corrupted items, then yes you can buy significant power increase...
if you actualy consider those things you would get to conclusion that power increase is not so significant, and hence can be wiped with better performance regarding your rotation or stat distribution...

for example, if i get item with rank3 infinite stars, my DPS would increase by 10% ...but my corruption to astonishing 108, so if i want to stay in reasonable amount of corruption, cleanse other corruptions i have (3 in total, haste proc and twice +% crit) and my dps would actualy go down by 1%... and thats when i calculate with the same perfect stat distribution, it would go even lower if the stars item would actualy have worse stats...

so the "significant power increase" seems to be much higher than it really is... yes, the item WOULD do 10% of my dps, but i would have to sacrifice some 11% to actualy equip it... seems like a worst trade deal ever...

[Lei]

given that there was barely any movement in token price since 8.3, which means there was barely any movement in supply and demand, claim that people actualy spend their real money to buy tokens to get those items rather than gold they already have ingame is baseless and most likely not true...
not to mention its not like those BOE items are behind some wall, ANYONE can go to raid to farm the trash and get the BOE items, sure you have to be lucky to get the corruption you want, but thats a matter of RNG not p2w...

as for shop mounts would you prefer if subscription price was increased for all players rather than SOME players who want to buy the mounts?

If sub prices would go up, there would be a direct correlation between the quality of the product and the content (expansion/patch). Good product = many subs, shit product = less subs. So if they wanted to cover their expenses from sub price only, they would have to make good patches. With store mounts, they are free to create whatever shit content, because whales and collectors will buy new mounts. so people who unlikely to unsub cover the "expense" of the people who do unsub.

[Zantos]

Non-sequitur after non-sequitur.. none of that is relevant. Literally none of it. You can buy the best gear with real money. Whether or not its the main way people chose to gear is wholly irrelevant.

No, you cannot buy the best gear with real money. The best gear will still be from raids. The corruption effects are random. Meaning that a mythic raider will get the best gear in game with the best corruption effects with enough luck.

Not only that, but in order to obtain Any of this gear, Any at all, it Must come from the raid and people doing the content.

You're entire argument is based on 1 key point, that people are Playing the game to obtain that gear to begin with. You cannot open the shop tab and buy the gear. You cannot ensure that you can even find anything on the auction house. What this means is unless people are raiding, getting the gear drops, and then deciding that they want to sell it, you cannot buy the best gear with real money because it wont be there.

Pay to win has 2 requirements. First, it has to come from spending real money exclusively without any ways to get it in game no matter what. Second, it has to be better then anything you can obtain in game, and thus, being a requirement to have to spend money to obtain the best gear.

Right now, neither one of those conditions are met. You can completely, 100%, obtain better gear, and a full set of it to boot, without spending a single penny. Not only that, its not always even available.

There is nothing on my servers AH with corruption gear. So, how do I spend money to buy gear if its not on the ah?

[Raelbo]

What was your definition btw?

As I said in my first reply to you: "a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win." I even repeated it in later posts.

It makes it difficult to take you seriously if you're arguing against me, yet somehow didn't notice what I was actually writing....

[Zantos]

In some scenarios it is pay to win. PvP for example. Infinite Stars is broken in pvp.

That doesn't make it pay to win since you cannot magically buy that corruption effect if none are on the ah.

[potis]

I love your enthusiastic approach to people here, but I'm not even raiding. Everyone wants to win in something in wow. Region first, server first, guild top dps, "I just wanna be better than Jerry!". There is a competition on all levels, not just in WF. PvP with these items?

My approach to people on here is 99% accurate, there are barely any decent players left actually posting on here compared to years ago, which is why i know my comments are accurate.

This forum went from a theorycrafting-collective to some sort of political correct off-topic shenanigans and any mention of "skill" about World of Warcraft, gets you an infraction.

As with everything that becomes famous, mmo-champion is the same, became famous over its first years of life, and after that boom, LFR heroes.

And WoW is a MMORPG, it cant be "won", there are moments you "win" a BG, or arena, but you dont actually ever win anything.

[Lolites]

If sub prices would go up, there would be a direct correlation between the quality of the product and the content (expansion/patch). Good product = many subs, shit product = less subs. So if they wanted to cover their expenses from sub price only, they would have to make good patches. With store mounts, they are free to create whatever shit content, because whales and collectors will buy new mounts. so people who unlikely to unsub cover the "expense" of the people who do unsub.

sure, bcs if the game is shit and people leave they will still buy store mounts... you are delusional
and people who are unlikely to unsub wouldnt unsub even if the sub is much higher with the same quality of content...

store exists so the price is redistributed among people, those who cant/dont want to pay only sub, those who want and can buy mounts, and blizz dont have to increase sub... seems like a win-win situation to me...

[Eugenik]

That doesn't make it pay to win since you cannot magically buy that corruption effect if none are on the ah.

So by your stupid fucking example if the best corruption was on the AH, then itd be p2w? Jesus fucking christ there are some dumb fucking people here...

[Kaver]

well, if you do your "math" in vacuum and ignore other things, like having to "sacrifice" perfect stats or other corrupted items, then yes you can buy significant power increase...
if you actualy consider those things you would get to conclusion that power increase is not so significant, and hence can be wiped with better performance regarding your rotation or stat distribution...

for example, if i get item with rank3 infinite stars, my DPS would increase by 10% ...but my corruption to astonishing 108, so if i want to stay in reasonable amount of corruption, cleanse other corruptions i have (3 in total, haste proc and twice +% crit) and my dps would actualy go down by 1%... and thats when i calculate with the same perfect stat distribution, it would go even lower if the stars item would actualy have worse stats...

so the "significant power increase" seems to be much higher than it really is... yes, the item WOULD do 10% of my dps, but i would have to sacrifice some 11% to actualy equip it... seems like a worst trade deal ever...

I'm not saying what you state here is wrong but it's really besides the point. If the question is "can you buy really powerful items in WoW with real life money?", then the answer is: Yes.

[chiddie]

Technically, according to that definition it is NOT p2w. Because it fails to meet the criterion of making the making game unbalanced for people who don't spend $$.

Mmm, yes but no. If you are mad enough to spend thousands of dollars you can get full 470+ or so in something like 10 minutes.

We can discuss endlessly about what type of advantage this will give to you but indeed you can and it saves you hella lot of TIME.

It’s like saying that Clash Royale is not p2w because you can take cards to high level like people that pay, sadly this is taking something like years more than people that pay.

[Zantos]

and the answer is simply: Yes, you can.

The real answer is No you cannot. My servers AH does not have any corrupted gear on it. Doesn't matter how much real money I have, cant buy what doesn't exist. Which is the key point. You cannot buy the gear with real money since it is not in the Blizzard shop.

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Mmm, yes but no. If you are mad enough to spend thousands of dollars you can get full 470+ or so in something like 10 minutes.

No you can't. Not enough BoEs to cover all the slots. May not even be any in the AH to begin with. So not, you cannot get 470 in 10 mins.

[Kaver]

That doesn't make it pay to win since you cannot magically buy that corruption effect if none are on the ah.

But it is possible without the realm of WoW.

[Kolvarg]

As I already said, a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win.

I mean, if we're going to be literal, a game would only be "pay to win" if you actually won instantly as soon as you paid.

I've always seen p2w being used as "allows players to buy a significant advantage". Obviously there can be various degrees of it, and I do agree that WoW is in a bit of a grey area because you don't actually buy the advantage directly, you buy gold that then use to buy the advantage.

But the fact is, regardless of what is the exact definition, at the moment WoW is the closest it has ever been to p2w. Between 2 average players of similar skill and dedication level, if 1 of them spends a lot of money on getting gold to get the best corruption items, he will perform significantly better.

[Kaver]

The real answer is No you cannot. My servers AH does not have any corrupted gear on it. Doesn't matter how much real money I have, cant buy what doesn't exist. Which is the key point. You cannot buy the gear with real money since it is not in the Blizzard shop.

It's possible to get corruption items in WoW by spending real life money. That's a fact. There might be some restriction, but it's still possible.

[Lolites]

I'm not saying what you state here is wrong but it's really besides the point. If the question is "can you buy really powerful items in WoW with real life money?", then the answer is: Yes.

but does that by any means give you some impassable advantage? the answer is no, so its not p2w, more like p2 get a slight increase in power...
thats why people who dont aim for world first race rather SELL those items than keep them to themselves, they know they can get on the same powr levels with soulbound gear and milk morons who buy the items...

[Zantos]

It's possible to get corruption items in WoW by spending real life money. That's a fact.

Wrong. Its "sometimes" possible to get corrupted items in WoW by spending money and Hoping someone buys your token in the first place. Its also possible to buy it without any money being spent, and thus, Defeats the pay to win entirely.
Right now, on my realm, it is not possible to buy any corrupted gear.

[Kaver]

As I said in my first reply to you: "a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win." I even repeated it in later posts.

It makes it difficult to take you seriously if you're arguing against me, yet somehow didn't notice what I was actually writing....

But I'm not arguing against you. I'm not sure where you got that from. I just answered a "yes or no" question and you started attacking me.

[Lolites]

It’s like saying that Clash Royale is not p2w because you can take cards to high level like people that pay, sadly this is taking something like years more than people that pay.

but it doesnt take years to get corrupted items, you actualy have 2 GUARANTEED per week... if you actualy play ofc

[Raelbo]

Non-sequitur after non-sequitur.. none of that is relevant. Literally none of it. You can buy the best gear with real money. Whether or not its the main way people chose to gear is wholly irrelevant.

Honestly, I don't believe you've said anything relevant this whole thread. What you do seem to be good at though is making false/misleading statements:

Like this gem: "You can buy the best gear with real money"

Firstly, you can't buy "the best gear". "The best gear" means having a complete set of gear, not just 1 or 2 pieces.
Secondly, 99.9% of players can't even buy those pieces of gear because there isn't enough of it available. So your statement is a further 99.9% false.

As I said to @Lei, being able to buy BoE epics with tokens is a massively different prospect from being able to buy unlimited quantities of such items directly from the shop. They're not even remotely similar in terms of impact it would have on the game.

[Kaver]

Wrong. Its "sometimes" possible to get corrupted items in WoW by spending money and Hoping someone buys your token in the first place. Its also possible to buy it without any money being spent, and thus, Defeats the pay to win entirely.
Right now, on my realm, it is not possible to buy any corrupted gear.

"sometimes" possible = possible

Definition of possible: "something that may exist or happen, but that is not necessarily certain or probable."