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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Because now Blizzard manipulates both ends of the market. Blizzard is the one who make these crazy OP lucrative items to drop as BoE and they are the ones who sell gold to players to be able buy it.
    When buying gold was not in Blizz's direct hands, it was slightly different.

    With this tactics, not only mounts are seasonal on the shop (shit expansion -> we need money -> put a mount on the shop for whales/collectors), but we can end up with gear being second-hand (word?) shop items. (shit expansion -> we need money -> crazy OP boes rain from the sky for the die hard raiders, we'll say it was an ooopsie)
    given that there was barely any movement in token price since 8.3, which means there was barely any movement in supply and demand, claim that people actualy spend their real money to buy tokens to get those items rather than gold they already have ingame is baseless and most likely not true...
    not to mention its not like those BOE items are behind some wall, ANYONE can go to raid to farm the trash and get the BOE items, sure you have to be lucky to get the corruption you want, but thats a matter of RNG not p2w...

    as for shop mounts would you prefer if subscription price was increased for all players rather than SOME players who want to buy the mounts?

  2. #282
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Technically it IS p2w. The advantage simply comes at a so high cost and for a so few time that makes it simply not worthwhile for the majority of people.
    Technically, according to that definition it is NOT p2w. Because it fails to meet the criterion of making the making game unbalanced for people who don't spend $$.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Sorry, but my definition is properly aligned with that, yours is not.
    What was your definition btw?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Because it fails to meet the criterion of making the making game unbalanced for people who don't spend $$.
    I guess this depend on the situation. If you lose your raid spot because someone else bought corruption BOEs then it does make the game unbalance in that scenario.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    The question is "Is it p2w?"

    So you've strawmanned.

    Well done!
    Thats the definition of p2w lmfao. Are you high and incapable of understanding these concepts, or something? Youre making yourself look real fucking stupid..

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    The question is "Is it p2w?"

    So you've strawmanned.

    Well done!
    In some scenarios it is pay to win. PvP for example. Infinite Stars is broken in pvp.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    If the discussion is "can you buy a very significant power increase for real life money in WoW" then the answer is simply: Yes. More than ever.

    And the corruption effects are not based on skill at all. So even a bad player can get almost full advantage of rank 3 infinite stars. Staying alive will get easier with higher corruption resistance on the cloak.
    well, if you do your "math" in vacuum and ignore other things, like having to "sacrifice" perfect stats or other corrupted items, then yes you can buy significant power increase...
    if you actualy consider those things you would get to conclusion that power increase is not so significant, and hence can be wiped with better performance regarding your rotation or stat distribution...

    for example, if i get item with rank3 infinite stars, my DPS would increase by 10% ...but my corruption to astonishing 108, so if i want to stay in reasonable amount of corruption, cleanse other corruptions i have (3 in total, haste proc and twice +% crit) and my dps would actualy go down by 1%... and thats when i calculate with the same perfect stat distribution, it would go even lower if the stars item would actualy have worse stats...

    so the "significant power increase" seems to be much higher than it really is... yes, the item WOULD do 10% of my dps, but i would have to sacrifice some 11% to actualy equip it... seems like a worst trade deal ever...

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    given that there was barely any movement in token price since 8.3, which means there was barely any movement in supply and demand, claim that people actualy spend their real money to buy tokens to get those items rather than gold they already have ingame is baseless and most likely not true...
    not to mention its not like those BOE items are behind some wall, ANYONE can go to raid to farm the trash and get the BOE items, sure you have to be lucky to get the corruption you want, but thats a matter of RNG not p2w...

    as for shop mounts would you prefer if subscription price was increased for all players rather than SOME players who want to buy the mounts?
    If sub prices would go up, there would be a direct correlation between the quality of the product and the content (expansion/patch). Good product = many subs, shit product = less subs. So if they wanted to cover their expenses from sub price only, they would have to make good patches. With store mounts, they are free to create whatever shit content, because whales and collectors will buy new mounts. so people who unlikely to unsub cover the "expense" of the people who do unsub.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Non-sequitur after non-sequitur.. none of that is relevant. Literally none of it. You can buy the best gear with real money. Whether or not its the main way people chose to gear is wholly irrelevant.
    No, you cannot buy the best gear with real money. The best gear will still be from raids. The corruption effects are random. Meaning that a mythic raider will get the best gear in game with the best corruption effects with enough luck.

    Not only that, but in order to obtain Any of this gear, Any at all, it Must come from the raid and people doing the content.

    You're entire argument is based on 1 key point, that people are Playing the game to obtain that gear to begin with. You cannot open the shop tab and buy the gear. You cannot ensure that you can even find anything on the auction house. What this means is unless people are raiding, getting the gear drops, and then deciding that they want to sell it, you cannot buy the best gear with real money because it wont be there.

    Pay to win has 2 requirements. First, it has to come from spending real money exclusively without any ways to get it in game no matter what. Second, it has to be better then anything you can obtain in game, and thus, being a requirement to have to spend money to obtain the best gear.

    Right now, neither one of those conditions are met. You can completely, 100%, obtain better gear, and a full set of it to boot, without spending a single penny. Not only that, its not always even available.

    There is nothing on my servers AH with corruption gear. So, how do I spend money to buy gear if its not on the ah?
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    What was your definition btw?
    As I said in my first reply to you: "a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win." I even repeated it in later posts.

    It makes it difficult to take you seriously if you're arguing against me, yet somehow didn't notice what I was actually writing....

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    In some scenarios it is pay to win. PvP for example. Infinite Stars is broken in pvp.
    That doesn't make it pay to win since you cannot magically buy that corruption effect if none are on the ah.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    I love your enthusiastic approach to people here, but I'm not even raiding. Everyone wants to win in something in wow. Region first, server first, guild top dps, "I just wanna be better than Jerry!". There is a competition on all levels, not just in WF. PvP with these items?
    My approach to people on here is 99% accurate, there are barely any decent players left actually posting on here compared to years ago, which is why i know my comments are accurate.

    This forum went from a theorycrafting-collective to some sort of political correct off-topic shenanigans and any mention of "skill" about World of Warcraft, gets you an infraction.

    As with everything that becomes famous, mmo-champion is the same, became famous over its first years of life, and after that boom, LFR heroes.

    And WoW is a MMORPG, it cant be "won", there are moments you "win" a BG, or arena, but you dont actually ever win anything.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    If sub prices would go up, there would be a direct correlation between the quality of the product and the content (expansion/patch). Good product = many subs, shit product = less subs. So if they wanted to cover their expenses from sub price only, they would have to make good patches. With store mounts, they are free to create whatever shit content, because whales and collectors will buy new mounts. so people who unlikely to unsub cover the "expense" of the people who do unsub.
    sure, bcs if the game is shit and people leave they will still buy store mounts... you are delusional
    and people who are unlikely to unsub wouldnt unsub even if the sub is much higher with the same quality of content...

    store exists so the price is redistributed among people, those who cant/dont want to pay only sub, those who want and can buy mounts, and blizz dont have to increase sub... seems like a win-win situation to me...

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    That doesn't make it pay to win since you cannot magically buy that corruption effect if none are on the ah.
    So by your stupid fucking example if the best corruption was on the AH, then itd be p2w? Jesus fucking christ there are some dumb fucking people here...

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    well, if you do your "math" in vacuum and ignore other things, like having to "sacrifice" perfect stats or other corrupted items, then yes you can buy significant power increase...
    if you actualy consider those things you would get to conclusion that power increase is not so significant, and hence can be wiped with better performance regarding your rotation or stat distribution...

    for example, if i get item with rank3 infinite stars, my DPS would increase by 10% ...but my corruption to astonishing 108, so if i want to stay in reasonable amount of corruption, cleanse other corruptions i have (3 in total, haste proc and twice +% crit) and my dps would actualy go down by 1%... and thats when i calculate with the same perfect stat distribution, it would go even lower if the stars item would actualy have worse stats...

    so the "significant power increase" seems to be much higher than it really is... yes, the item WOULD do 10% of my dps, but i would have to sacrifice some 11% to actualy equip it... seems like a worst trade deal ever...
    I'm not saying what you state here is wrong but it's really besides the point. If the question is "can you buy really powerful items in WoW with real life money?", then the answer is: Yes.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Technically, according to that definition it is NOT p2w. Because it fails to meet the criterion of making the making game unbalanced for people who don't spend $$.
    Mmm, yes but no. If you are mad enough to spend thousands of dollars you can get full 470+ or so in something like 10 minutes.

    We can discuss endlessly about what type of advantage this will give to you but indeed you can and it saves you hella lot of TIME.

    It’s like saying that Clash Royale is not p2w because you can take cards to high level like people that pay, sadly this is taking something like years more than people that pay.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    and the answer is simply: Yes, you can.
    The real answer is No you cannot. My servers AH does not have any corrupted gear on it. Doesn't matter how much real money I have, cant buy what doesn't exist. Which is the key point. You cannot buy the gear with real money since it is not in the Blizzard shop.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Mmm, yes but no. If you are mad enough to spend thousands of dollars you can get full 470+ or so in something like 10 minutes.
    No you can't. Not enough BoEs to cover all the slots. May not even be any in the AH to begin with. So not, you cannot get 470 in 10 mins.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    That doesn't make it pay to win since you cannot magically buy that corruption effect if none are on the ah.
    But it is possible without the realm of WoW.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    As I already said, a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win.
    I mean, if we're going to be literal, a game would only be "pay to win" if you actually won instantly as soon as you paid.

    I've always seen p2w being used as "allows players to buy a significant advantage". Obviously there can be various degrees of it, and I do agree that WoW is in a bit of a grey area because you don't actually buy the advantage directly, you buy gold that then use to buy the advantage.

    But the fact is, regardless of what is the exact definition, at the moment WoW is the closest it has ever been to p2w. Between 2 average players of similar skill and dedication level, if 1 of them spends a lot of money on getting gold to get the best corruption items, he will perform significantly better.
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2020-02-25 at 10:49 AM.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    The real answer is No you cannot. My servers AH does not have any corrupted gear on it. Doesn't matter how much real money I have, cant buy what doesn't exist. Which is the key point. You cannot buy the gear with real money since it is not in the Blizzard shop.
    It's possible to get corruption items in WoW by spending real life money. That's a fact. There might be some restriction, but it's still possible.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I'm not saying what you state here is wrong but it's really besides the point. If the question is "can you buy really powerful items in WoW with real life money?", then the answer is: Yes.
    but does that by any means give you some impassable advantage? the answer is no, so its not p2w, more like p2 get a slight increase in power...
    thats why people who dont aim for world first race rather SELL those items than keep them to themselves, they know they can get on the same powr levels with soulbound gear and milk morons who buy the items...

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