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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    No it’s “the cops have been taking a cut and ignoring the crime so why are you suprised when they cut out the middle man and take all the profit instead of a cut”.
    Go up to any *stupid* advertiser that asks you to join a sykpe call / discord, then suddenly receive a Gladiator Mount / Raid boost a few weeks later without any gold leaving your account.
    You and anyone involved will be banned.

    That's why boosters want to get in touch with people outside of Battle-net, because there Blizzard cannot track their communication.
    If no suspicious chat logs exists, it is by default very difficult for Blizzard to prove there was Real money compensation, unless they modify Warden to track all of your activities, but then Blizzard will have one huge lawsuit coming their way.

    I'm not saying Blizzard is doing everything in their power to stop them, but saying they're just looking the other way is far from the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    depending on how you look at them, and you claiming one is bogus and the other isn't is an opinion you're welcome to, but isn't well-supported logically.
    No, the reasoning "people are doing it" is not a justification to legalize an action.
    If you want to argue for the legalization of something, find better arguments, that's the point.
    The same argument also exists on the other side when people say "It's illegal, therefore it should remain illegal", you should have better arguments than that.

    If you want to argue that Blizzard should just straight up sell you a Gladiator mount and a Mythic loot box for 50€, go ahead.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-02-25 at 05:46 PM.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Then you're being willfully ignorant, and your opinion counts for less than nothing. If no one else's opinions matter because you refuse to even listen to them, much less consider them, then why are you even here?
    didnt say no one else opinion matters, but someone who actualy MAKE MONEY of the content he creates will likely be biased to move towards the topics and conclusions that will earn him more...
    its like watching tv news knowing the tv is financed by political party, will they be honest and truthful or biased towards their agenda? i think answer is clear, and its the same with content creators...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Except that it IS that powerful in actual practice. NOT sims. That's what we've been trying to tell you.

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    Except when it is. :/ But you refuse to listen to the practiced, experienced expert who would show you that data. So where does that leave things?
    some half hour ago i was in underrot +12, there was war with TD rank 3 (he had the sword from hc Nzoth), it did whole 8.6% of his dps... so help me there, how is my experience from actual game wrong, but someone elses data that i have no way of verifying are right? WHY would i believe someone i dont know over my own eyes?

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Not really. Paying a sub merely opens the possibility of getting said items, buying them quite obviously guarantees it
    Using a token merely opens the possibility of obtaining a BoE. It doesn't guarantee you one. Same thing.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #504
    The Patient BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    That's a really weird definition of pay-to-win considering most people define pay-to-win as "getting an advantage by investing money" or simply "having purchasable things that are not cosmetic".
    It seems like you willingly defined pay-to-win in a way that would specifically exclude WoW from this definition.
    People are stupid, plain and simple. Many people don't even consider gacha/lootboxes to be pay2win, they want more gacha/lootboxes in games, they believe it is perfectly normal to spend money and gain advantage instead of actually playing the bloody game. Just because people believe something doesn't mean it is right. There are people who still believe having white skin means they are superior. Use logic, cause and effect to determine what is what.

    I have played more than a thousand pay2win games, including mobile games to perfectly know what I am talking about.
    Moderators on this site are, to put it nicely, morons. They believe any opinion contrary to popular ones are either trolling or flaming or baiting. They can not comprehend the fact that there can be people who would utterly detest what they like or million others like. Well, it is their site and their "Authoretaeh" but they are morons nonetheless.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Therefore it's not possible to say with certainty that BOE didn't influence token sales. For all we know the token sales might have dropped significantly without the availability of BOEs.
    learn a bit about price trends and then return to me...

    you are saying that the demand was at certain point, then dropped out of blue PRECISELY in the same time as it was increased by aproximately THE SAME AMOUNT by boes? and that is to you more likely than sales of token not increasing rapidly? bcs that is the only other option how price trend could remain relatively unchanged...

    its like saying you didnt get hit by a car when you left your house bcs the meteor hit the car that would otherwise hit you, sure it is possible, but its more likely there just wasnt any car...

  6. #506
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No, the reasoning "people are doing it" is not a justification to legalize an action.
    If you want to argue for the legalization of something, find better arguments, that's the point.
    The same argument also exists on the other side when people say "It's illegal, therefore it should remain illegal", you should have better arguments than that.

    If you want to argue that Blizzard should just straight up sell you a Gladiator mount and a Mythic loot box for 50€, go ahead.
    Literally no-one has made this argument: "No, the reasoning "people are doing it" is not a justification to legalize an action." so like, nice strawman I guess? Grats? What I have pointed out is that if legalizing something prevents harm, or reduces harm, it needs to be seriously considered.

    And what's with the weird non-sequitur at the end there?

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Literally no-one has made this argument
    Then maybe check the post i've been replying to originally.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    learn a bit about price trends and then return to me...

    you are saying that the demand was at certain point, then dropped out of blue PRECISELY in the same time as it was increased by aproximately THE SAME AMOUNT by boes? and that is to you more likely than sales of token not increasing rapidly? bcs that is the only other option how price trend could remain relatively unchanged...

    its like saying you didnt get hit by a car when you left your house bcs the meteor hit the car that would otherwise hit you, sure it is possible, but its more likely there just wasnt any car...
    This also assumes blizzard doesn't have a hand on the wheel so to speak.

    I find trying to infer things to a system we only have guess work to go on to be perilous.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Therefore it's not possible to say with certainty that BOE didn't influence token sales. For all we know the token sales might have dropped significantly without the availability of BOEs.
    https://wowtoken.info/

    The same trends exist prior to 8.3. The existence of corruption BoE did not significantly impact token prices. Again you keep claiming their is a boogeyman under the bed just to further a viewpoint that is not backed up with easily verifiable information. It is also highly amusing you can say you can speculate with some certainty while saying that you can't possibly say with certainty. Make up your mind.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    didnt say no one else opinion matters, but someone who actualy MAKE MONEY of the content he creates will likely be biased to move towards the topics and conclusions that will earn him more...
    And for the third time, I'm telling you that this specific video does not do that. Sure, maybe he's making some ad revenue or whatever. But the video in question is not some bullshit like you seem to think all youtube videos are.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    some half hour ago i was in underrot +12, there was war with TD rank 3 (he had the sword from hc Nzoth), it did whole 8.6% of his dps... so help me there, how is my experience from actual game wrong, but someone elses data that i have no way of verifying are right? WHY would i believe someone i dont know over my own eyes?
    Gosh, I don't know, maybe because you'd care to test your own experiences vs those of other perspectives?

    Whatever. Do what you want. Your opinion means nothing to me at this point. I was trying to expand your horizons, maybe combat some ignorance. But go ahead and keep enjoying the darkness down there underneath the sand where your head is.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    The gearing dynamic has completely changed in 8.3.

    You can literally buy entire BiS sets of gear from the AH since 8.3

    So yes, the switch to P2W was made in 8.3

    It costs a shit ton of gold and dollars to do it though, but it's there since this patch.

    Method literally spent 50k dollars on this patch, because they could.
    This right here is why these Devs need to be fired
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Tident View Post
    I find trying to infer things to a system we only have guess work to go on to be perilous.
    This is my point.

    Claiming that BOEs aren't effecting the price is just as inaccurate as claiming that they are.

  13. #513
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Go up to any *stupid* advertiser that asks you to join a sykpe call / discord, then suddenly receive a Gladiator Mount / Raid boost a few weeks later without any gold leaving your account.
    You and anyone involved will be banned.

    That's why boosters want to get in touch with people outside of Battle-net, because there Blizzard cannot track their communication.
    If no suspicious chat logs exists, it is by default very difficult for Blizzard to prove there was Real money compensation, unless they modify Warden to track all of your activities, but then Blizzard will have one huge lawsuit coming their way.

    I'm not saying Blizzard is doing everything in their power to stop them, but saying they're just looking the other way is far from the truth.
    Blizzard like any one else getting a cut takes a token effort to make it seem like they are against the acts. In the end though if your giving them money and plausible deniability they’ll give you a free pass, I mean there is a reason the Chinese have been able to make businesses off of gold farming even though shutting down mass gathers like that would be relatively easily.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    This is my point.

    Claiming that BOEs aren't effecting the price is just as inaccurate as claiming that they are.
    I agree with this. I do take issue with just how powerful those boes are but that has less to do with the boes and more to do with how poorly thought out corruption appears to be.

    At least I want to believe it was poorly thought out... a cynical part of me is wondering if it was a push to try and inject more token sales...

    It will really come done to what the shadow lands systems look like for me personally to judge one way or the other.

  15. #515
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    genius argument
    What? Short and clear wasn't enough?

    You aren't paying Blizzard to 'win'. You are paying another player with gold. That gold could come from a token, which you again, bought from another player.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Tident View Post
    This also assumes blizzard doesn't have a hand on the wheel so to speak.

    I find trying to infer things to a system we only have guess work to go on to be perilous.
    well given the price trend behaves exactly as expected by economic principles, it seems kinda reasonable to assume blizz doesnt interfere, especialy since they would want to tilt it towards their benefit, not manipulate it so it behaves as it should without interference...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Gosh, I don't know, maybe because you'd care to test your own experiences vs those of other perspectives?
    if i showed you picture of green skies would you go "oh, so i was wrong my whole life, sky is in fact green not blue" OR would you think "huh, this picture is probably photoshoped"?
    i would choose the second option, and trust my own eyes over "dude trust me", but you do you, ill stick to reality thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    https://wowtoken.info/

    The same trends exist prior to 8.3. The existence of corruption BoE did not significantly impact token prices. Again you keep claiming their is a boogeyman under the bed just to further a viewpoint that is not backed up with easily verifiable information. It is also highly amusing you can say you can speculate with some certainty while saying that you can't possibly say with certainty. Make up your mind.
    dont bother, his opinion is more to him than reality, already ignored him, key to hapiness is not to argue with morons

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    well given the price trend behaves exactly as expected by economic principles, it seems kinda reasonable to assume blizz doesnt interfere, especialy since they would want to tilt it towards their benefit, not manipulate it so it behaves as it should without interference...
    Yet they have interfered in the past. They limited the amount of tokens one may purchase and are on record of saying they will ensure certain caps and quotas are kept with their announcements.

    I am skeptical that blizzard doesn't push token sales. I find it hard to believe the ah mount being removed or a string of expensive rep mounts are not their way of pushing sales.

    I am just skeptical they purposely jeopardized game balance to achieve it. Right now at least I am going to assume incompetence over malice. Shadow lands I believe will reveal with certainty what one it is.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Tident View Post
    Yet they have interfered in the past. They limited the amount of tokens one may purchase and are on record of saying they will ensure certain caps and quotas are kept with their announcements.

    I am skeptical that blizzard doesn't push token sales. I find it hard to believe the ah mount being removed or a string of expensive rep mounts are not their way of pushing sales.

    I am just skeptical they purposely jeopardized game balance to achieve it. Right now at least I am going to assume incompetence over malice. Shadow lands I believe will reveal with certainty what one it is.
    but they didnt really interfere, they did some design/busines choices that IMPACTED the price, thats a bit different

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

    Is this good gameplay or not? Pay to win?

    Blizzard probly happy about it as they earn more $$$




    EDIT: What i mean by p2w is win the damage meter. More dps make dungeon/raid/pvp easyer. One with buyed BIS for real life money VS one with no corrupt or a bad one. Who would you put your money on? Who would you like to have in your raid/dungeon/arena. Also my english are pretty bad so sorry for not explaining so all understand. I did my best, sorry.


    VERY funny thing is that i asked both if its good gameplay and if its P2W. None/few answer if its good gameplay. All get stuck if its P2W instead. Ppl are funny

    Put down your tinfoil hat and stfu.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    but they didnt really interfere, they did some design/busines choices that IMPACTED the price, thats a bit different
    It's a difficult argument to have. In pvp and high level pve corruption is a game defining power boost outside of it I would offer its neglectful.

    Its impact depends on your goal.

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