WOW- Now pay to win?

[Beerbill Society]

Woww damnnnn.. have you seen the millions of gold sellers that privatly sell gold for real money? It exists just like in retail. Get a grip people. Wow is not pay2win, and never will be. People thinking other wise are just unintelligent fucks that dont know nothing.

I have spoken.

Close the thread now pretty please!

I think you didn't understand the op post, he clearly mention that high end gear is purchased using currency you can get directly from blizzard, in retail at least.

The same don't happen in classic because firstly if you purchase gold you are infringing Toss and are prone to be ban or be held accountable and second you can't get anything end game related for merely gold, (oh but they can purchase runs, mount, BoE, X, Y, bla bla blah, yes but it doesn't even matter is not like it's impossible to achieve anyways by just playing).

You should try to read instead of being rude, it only invalidate your point.

- - - Updated - - -

You can't buy gold from Blizzard in retail either.

In fact you can, the token thing sells even if nobody ever purchase it, they only use the data of purchases with money vs the gold as a way to evaluate the market price, but even if nobody buys your token you still get paid, and if no token is available you still are able to get with gold, thus Blizzard is actually making gold out of thin air to sell you using a clever mechanic.

Also nothing can assure you that Blizzard don't manipulate the gold inflation price on it to stimulate sales of the tokens.

[Onikaroshi]

Nice joke mate, you really got me there.
Tell me again then why arent more people riding on brutosaurs if it is that easy?

It's easy, it just takes a bit of effort, effort doesn't make it hard

[ping-pong]

OK, let's say you're a warrior and you have a warrior friend, both good players. You spent 0 gold on gear, he spent 2000$ on gear. You join the same guild. He is better on meters, but you still do enough, so you both got the spot. Since he already has enough gear, you get prio for gearing. Win for you. You then proceed to join the pug for luls. You both get invited (provided you played enough to have achievement and enough gear for said pug), and he funnels the gear for you again. So, basically if you're a good player, you can only benefit from the others who spent millions of gold. Unless your only goal in game is to have 100 parses. Then it sucks, but still can happen eventually. Realistically, it only matters if you're going for top parse and/or you're in the WF race. So, saying WoW is P2W is only true if your idea of WoW is WF race. However, if you're in WF race, you have sponsors and that's another ballgame.

What are we whining about here?

[Deadite]

OK, let's say you're a warrior and you have a warrior friend, both good players. You spent 0 gold on gear, he spent 2000$ on gear. You join the same guild. He is better on meters, but you still do enough, so you both got the spot. Since he already has enough gear, you get prio for gearing. Win for you. You then proceed to join the pug for luls. You both get invited (provided you played enough to have achievement and enough gear for said pug), and he funnels the gear for you again. So, basically if you're a good player, you can only benefit from the others who spent millions of gold. Unless your only goal in game is to have 100 parses. Then it sucks, but still can happen eventually. Realistically, it only matters if you're going for top parse and/or you're in the WF race. So, saying WoW is P2W is only true if your idea of WoW is WF race. However, if you're in WF race, you have sponsors and that's another ballgame.

What are we whining about here?

What about you and your warrior friend start playing your warriors at the same time? He buys a bunch of tokens and you dont. You pal buys a char boost and then pays some guild to boost him in current content. You are hitting 112 at the same time he is hitting 470 ilevel. Kinda the definition of pay to win.

[SirCowdog]

OK, let's say you're a warrior and you have a warrior friend, both good players. You spent 0 gold on gear, he spent 2000$ on gear. You join the same guild. He is better on meters, but you still do enough, so you both got the spot. Since he already has enough gear, you get prio for gearing. Win for you. You then proceed to join the pug for luls. You both get invited (provided you played enough to have achievement and enough gear for said pug), and he funnels the gear for you again. So, basically if you're a good player, you can only benefit from the others who spent millions of gold. Unless your only goal in game is to have 100 parses. Then it sucks, but still can happen eventually. Realistically, it only matters if you're going for top parse and/or you're in the WF race. So, saying WoW is P2W is only true if your idea of WoW is WF race. However, if you're in WF race, you have sponsors and that's another ballgame.

What are we whining about here?

And when your friend takes gear and sells it to make up for the gold he spent on gear? Or when your friend gets headhunted into a better guild? Or when your friend gets a spot and you don't?

You can create cherry-picked scenarios all day long to justify your point of view. That doesn't mean they're grounded in reality.

EDIT: On a totally unrelated note. I'm am absolutely astounded at technology. Not even 24 hours after Lasik and I can see amazingly well.

[Black Goat]

Not like this...corrupt effect does like 30-50% of your damge sometimes. Have never been like that before that BOE are so powerfull. Or maybe it have but that is bad gameplay.

- - - Updated - - -

yes but never this powerboost? 30%+ of your damage from one BOE? Really?

Regardless of the percentage you claim, you've always been able to purchase items to enhance your character through various transactions.

The point remains, this type of thing your claiming has always been there. The power increase is just more substantial now.

[Rogue Karl]

Regardless of the percentage you claim, you've always been able to purchase items to enhance your character through various transactions.

The point remains, this type of thing your claiming has always been there. The power increase is just more substantial now.

That does change the concept quite a bit though...

Black market auction house mythic items were removed because both the community and blizzard felt that they were from to powerful to be obtained by gold .

[SirCowdog]

I don't get why you're so preoccupied with people who'd appreciate an easier mode for games like Sekiro. This example alone, proves your theory about people "only wanting the free loot" wrong; there is no loot in Sekiro. Some people just want to lay back and play a game which they find interesting due to its story line, setting (heck, who doesn't find Samurai cool?) or graphics without the stress they experience on its default difficulty. There's nothing wrong with that, especially because it doesn't affect you, me or anyone else in any way.

Because the entire concept of "I should be able to play however I want" completely undermines the intended way the developers want to present the game. (Yes yes, all you lurkers out there are rolling in your grave about the flying issues).

What happens when devs spend too much time catering and caving to the requests to alter the game to suit players, who have no intention of playing normally, is that the core of the game corrodes or mutates into something so watered down as to almost be unrecognizable. We see this very phenomenon happening right now in WoW with corrupted gear. Sure, some people are extremely happy because they have bullshit gear that basically puts them on EZ mode, and allows them to perform FAR above the level where they actually deserve to be in progression based on their actual ability to play the game.

In the scase of games like Sekiro and Dark Souls, the very struggle to overcome is the entire point of the game. The devs have even said themselves that all the feelings of anger, frustration, determination, and eventually victory, are all INTENTED results of the difficulty of the game. Take away that difficulty and you absolute gut the game of everything it's supposed to be.

The people who push high keys and demand extremely well geared people, don't fall in the same category as the aforementioned ones who want an easier version of Sekiro. These key pushers don't want to 'relax'. They consider themselves among the elite and don't want to waste time on content they stopped enjoying a long time ago. ergo, (as I said before) they want to eliminate as many variables as possible that could result in fails.

The people who are pushing extremely high keys, yes, are making legitimate requests for other people who can perform at their same level. A level which is appropriate for the difficulty they're attempting. Those are not the people I'm referring to. I'm referring to the idiots who are at a M+5 level asking for potential teammates who are geared and experienced at +10 or higher. They don't want to actually play the game and challenge themselves. They want to be carried, the same way buying overpowered gear carries them to higher personal performance. Again, they have no interest in actually playing the game. They just want the rewards.

No one is asking to take it away, as far as I can tell. Did the "easy" option make Doom less entertaining for you? Again, what does it matter how another person plays a game? Do you somehow feel less 'l33t' if people are able to kill Sekiro's lightning Sensei? If so, you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you have this need to feel special.

I don't "want to feel special". I want games to remain true to their intended purpose by the developers, and not warped into an unrecognizable state because of catering to selfish twits who want selfishly want victory without working for it.

Says who? You? The developer? Don't get me wrong, I love the DS series even though I found Sekiro a bit on the boring side. But I couldn't give a flying fuck about an easy mode being added; I won't use it anyway.

See above. The Souls developers have specifically explained why there is not EZ mode.

No, that's not the reason and I already explained why. Timmy has already put in the hours, he doesn't want to 'progress' anymore. He wants to crush the shitty content and be done with it.

If Timmy has already put in the time and earned his place at the higher end, then he has no reason to run lower-tier content. There are no rewards for him there. And higher tier content DOES present new challenges in the form of different or additional mechanics. This is why Mythic raiding and high-tier M+ runs are so difficult. These are not the people I'm criticizing.

Like everything, games evolve and for all intents and purposes, if the 'core' game play isn't appealing to a great enough audience, it needs to change lest it remain a niche game with all the difficulties that entails.

That's very likely. Although I think it has less to do with niche gaming in the case of wow, and more to do with the corporation of ATVI seeking to maximize profit at the expense of all other considerations. That is a tangent that doesn't really fall into the scope of this discussion, however. And frankly it's been done to death in other threads anyway.

[Kaver]

OK, let's say you're a warrior and you have a warrior friend, both good players. You spent 0 gold on gear, he spent 2000$ on gear. You join the same guild. He is better on meters, but you still do enough, so you both got the spot. Since he already has enough gear, you get prio for gearing. Win for you. You then proceed to join the pug for luls. You both get invited (provided you played enough to have achievement and enough gear for said pug), and he funnels the gear for you again. So, basically if you're a good player, you can only benefit from the others who spent millions of gold. Unless your only goal in game is to have 100 parses. Then it sucks, but still can happen eventually. Realistically, it only matters if you're going for top parse and/or you're in the WF race. So, saying WoW is P2W is only true if your idea of WoW is WF race. However, if you're in WF race, you have sponsors and that's another ballgame.

What are we whining about here?

That’s a lot of assumptions you just made there.

What if there was only 1 raid spot available and the Warrior that spent 2000$ on gear got it because he had better gear? That would in my world be an unfair advantage.

[Raelbo]

That’s a lot of assumptions you just made there.

What if there was only 1 raid spot available and the Warrior that spent 2000$ on gear got it because he had better gear? That would in my world be an unfair advantage.

Does this really happen though? Note that I am not asking whether it has ever happened, but whether it's a statistically relevant issue more likely to cost you a raid spot than say, getting hit by a lightning bolt or dying in a car crash.

That's really the issue I have with these types of arguments. You're creating problematic hypothetical scenarios that have little grounding in reality or what actually happens in the game.

Honestly, hands up everyone here who has lost a raid spot because of a guildie who spent $2000 buying BoE epics off the AH using tokens to get his gold....

[Rogue Karl]

Does this really happen though? Note that I am not asking whether it has ever happened, but whether it's a statistically relevant issue more likely to cost you a raid spot than say, getting hit by a lightning bolt or dying in a car crash.

That's really the issue I have with these types of arguments. You're creating problematic hypothetical scenarios that have little grounding in reality or what actually happens in the game.

Honestly, hands up everyone here who has lost a raid spot because of a guildie who spent $2000 buying BoE epics off the AH using tokens to get his gold....

I don't understand this line of reasoning. Are we now arguing sure it happens but at a rate it shouldnt bother anyone?

It acts as a real road block to people who want to progress in mythic. Now you can argue semantics for pay to win but given that for most classes a good corruption roll is roughly a 7/53 chance on a uncommon proc it seems like a poor system.

[rhorle]

In fact you can, the token thing sells even if nobody ever purchase it

No it doesn't. The tokens do not create gold the only transfer it. If nobody buys your token then you will never get gold. It is extremely unlikely though that no one will buy the token. It is why prices can fluctuate based on supply and demand. If no token is available to buy you can't get gold. The AH has run out before. I still don't get after all this time why people create conspiracies and false information surrounding tokens.

[Unholyground]

I stopped playing all blizzard games aside from hearthstone since it is free so that I am not supporting their anti-consumer practices, maybe it won't make in impact but they aren't getting my dime anymore. Time to play some real games.

[ddsad2212]

OK, let's say you're a warrior and you have a warrior friend, both good players. You spent 0 gold on gear, he spent 2000$ on gear. You join the same guild. He is better on meters, but you still do enough, so you both got the spot. Since he already has enough gear, you get prio for gearing. Win for you. You then proceed to join the pug for luls. You both get invited (provided you played enough to have achievement and enough gear for said pug), and he funnels the gear for you again. So, basically if you're a good player, you can only benefit from the others who spent millions of gold. Unless your only goal in game is to have 100 parses. Then it sucks, but still can happen eventually. Realistically, it only matters if you're going for top parse and/or you're in the WF race. So, saying WoW is P2W is only true if your idea of WoW is WF race. However, if you're in WF race, you have sponsors and that's another ballgame.

What are we whining about here?

So what happens in the time there is only one spot for a warrior and the guild chooses the player doing higher dps. Your friend gets in over you because they spent money.

[Soluna]

You can't buy gold in classic though least not without risking a ban. I also don't think that any of those items are rng based...

Dude what do you mean, Lionheart helmet recipe is like a .5% drop chance, same with other amazing items like freezing band, sash of mercy, belt of the ordained, boots of chromatic thought, etc. They are RNG-based af, and if you think that gold selling has stopped because you can get banned, or has ever stopped anyone who wanted to do it, welp, you are wrong. These things are literally thriving, else they wouldn't keep happening to this day.

- - - Updated - - -

Can you just fuck off with the "it was always like that" fanboy bullshit already? Did those BoEs back then have corruption effects that came with a 20% dps increase? No? Just shut the fuck up if this is the best you can dig up, it's just embarrasing.

No, but did you get a lionheart helmet from literally random drops? No, even if you'd get the recipe, you'd need craptons of materials. And even then, can you say that every warrior (cause literally all dps warriors should have it with how bis it is), managed to get one and get it for free? Does a freezing band have a chance to appear at your weekly +0 classic dungeon reward chest? I didn't think so. Literally anyone who has been playing ny'alotha for like a month+ that it's been out now has a multitude of corruption items. Literally everyone everywhere has at least a single decent corruption, and infinite stars sure increases your dps by a huge amount, but that's only once in a blue moon when it procs like hell on the same target.

But keep insulting me because you are a classic loyalist and cannot get an argument off the ground without telling me to fuck off. Game has always been P2W, and if you think that your average joe can just fork out gold and get 12/12 M, you are wrong, because they'd get mind controlled on N'zoth normal before they'd get the chance to even step into mythic.

The only one who is embarassing here is you, who doesn't understandable the collective value of all these super powerful boes you could buy in classic. By the time you can equip multiple of GOOD corruption boes, you will have already gotten passively many good pieces anyway from either the raid, or doing world quests, or your m+/weekly chests. Literally everyone who plays a lot of m+ and hc/mythic raids has more corruptions on themselves than they could possibly ever need, and sure, like 10 items are void ritual, but like 30 others aren't, and getting an infinite stars rank 3, or 2 rank 2, or hell, even 2 rank 1s or a single rank 2 is a huge enough dps boost to make you competitive at single target. The same goes for every other corruption.

But I guess you have 0 clue about this patch, and you just parrot whatever preach says in his videos. And if you have a problem with playing the game for a month to get good corruptions, the same shit is true for classic. I have 810 healing spellpower as a holy paladin and I've been playing it consistently, a new holy paladin who recently dinged has 200-300 healing spellpower, and might need more than just a month to get to my spellpower level. So I don't get what's your issue. Can't wait for your next argument of 'Fuck off, you couldn't buy gold back then officially', which is really a gray zone, as everyone and their mothers could easily buy gold back then, and I know ppl who do it even now in classic.

- - - Updated - - -

So what happens in the time there is only one spot for a warrior and the guild chooses the player doing higher dps. Your friend gets in over you because they spent money.

What happens is that you should not join that guild if they think that their world 500-5k progression should be determined by who bought 20 corruption boes on first day of raid release. Just logic I guess? Must be tough for mmo champion. I literally know of guilds in top 50-200 who have spent jackshit for this, and still are competitive af because you know, they all get good corruptions by playing the game. Having such powerful boes only matters on WF race, because you need the power boost instantly.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand this line of reasoning. Are we now arguing sure it happens but at a rate it shouldnt bother anyone?

It acts as a real road block to people who want to progress in mythic. Now you can argue semantics for pay to win but given that for most classes a good corruption roll is roughly a 7/53 chance on a uncommon proc it seems like a poor system.

A 7/53 chance on an uncommon procc for a system where you can get infinite chances to get it through m+. Like literally 90-95% of people who are running m+ consistently have gotten good corruptions already. The true roadblocks of this tier come really late, you can't tell me that people wipe on xanesh cause their entire raid doesn't have infinite stars. No, it's just people sucking at football. Ra-den and maybe Il'gynoth are the first bosses who are actual roadblocks, and are reached by top 100-200 guilds (or beaten in ra den's case by now), and I bet that if you go and inspect every single damn guild, everyone will have their best, or close to best corruption in the game.

The people who are still stuck on shadar are world 1.4k+ material, and if they are stuck there due to dps, then you can bet your ass it's not cause of infinite stars, it's because they suck at the game. And if they can't do their weekly m+ to eventually get a good corruption, it's their fault. Also, getting multiple rank 1s/2s of a good corruption is better than rolling a rank 3 of that corruption, cause you can start minmaxing at this point. Overall, an imaginary problem that doesn't exist, and if it's a thing for anyone, it's cause they are NOT playing the game. Classic (and other forms of WoW) never rewarded you with the best stuff without putting effort in. Even in WoD HFC, would you argue that the game is unfair to ppl who don't have archimonde trinkets, or came back late and didn't get their ring fixed? No, because it's their fault they didn't dedicate a bit of time to get their shit sorted.

[nocturnus]

Because the entire concept of "I should be able to play however I want" completely undermines the intended way the developers want to present the game. (Yes yes, all you lurkers out there are rolling in your grave about the flying issues).

What happens when devs spend too much time catering and caving to the requests to alter the game to suit players, who have no intention of playing normally, is that the core of the game corrodes or mutates into something so watered down as to almost be unrecognizable. We see this very phenomenon happening right now in WoW with corrupted gear. Sure, some people are extremely happy because they have bullshit gear that basically puts them on EZ mode, and allows them to perform FAR above the level where they actually deserve to be in progression based on their actual ability to play the game.

In the scase of games like Sekiro and Dark Souls, the very struggle to overcome is the entire point of the game. The devs have even said themselves that all the feelings of anger, frustration, determination, and eventually victory, are all INTENTED results of the difficulty of the game. Take away that difficulty and you absolute gut the game of everything it's supposed to be.

I get what you mean, I do. The way you describe what you feel is happening to wow, reminds me of what has happened to Judo. Today, Judo is a watered down, bullshit sport not even worthy of its name. But guess what, the way things "are meant to be" changes over time to appease the masses.

But, yes, there's a but, as long as you - the niche player - can play the game how you want to, why deny others the option to play how they want to? Again, it doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form.

The people who are pushing extremely high keys, yes, are making legitimate requests for other people who can perform at their same level. A level which is appropriate for the difficulty they're attempting. Those are not the people I'm referring to. I'm referring to the idiots who are at a M+5 level asking for potential teammates who are geared and experienced at +10 or higher. They don't want to actually play the game and challenge themselves. They want to be carried, the same way buying overpowered gear carries them to higher personal performance. Again, they have no interest in actually playing the game. They just want the rewards.

I mistakenly used high key pushers as an example. Nevertheless, the example I gave applies to anyone, whether it's key 10 or key 2, people want to go in and get out as fast as possible because the content is chewed, regurgitated and ruminated ass.

You can find it unreasonable and I agree with you, it is unreasonable, but it isn't strange or against the way it was intended.

I don't "want to feel special". I want games to remain true to their intended purpose by the developers, and not warped into an unrecognizable state because of catering to selfish twits who want selfishly want victory without working for it.

The game wouldn't be "warped into an unrecognizable state" with an option you can ignore. What you suggest feels more like excluding anyone that has a different approach to gaming.

See above. The Souls developers have specifically explained why there is not EZ mode.

They have? Well, that seems a stupid thing to me, since putting in an easy mode for those who would like to have a more relaxed experience doesn't have any impact on those of us who want the 'original' experience. Or are you afraid that the appeal of an easy mode would seduce you as well? If not, who the fuck cares.

Did your surgery go well, by the way?

[BossManRoth]

you people need to realize means paytowin means you open a menu and pay real money for items directly. items dropping for someone out in the game world and being sold for in game currency =/= p2w. even if you can "buy" that ingame currency for real money, because those items and currency are not being generated by the act of buying them. they are earned through normal game play and then offered up for those items

[Kaver]

Does this really happen though? Note that I am not asking whether it has ever happened, but whether it's a statistically relevant issue more likely to cost you a raid spot than say, getting hit by a lightning bolt or dying in a car crash.

That's really the issue I have with these types of arguments. You're creating problematic hypothetical scenarios that have little grounding in reality or what actually happens in the game.

Honestly, hands up everyone here who has lost a raid spot because of a guildie who spent $2000 buying BoE epics off the AH using tokens to get his gold....

I don't know. I was just doing a respond to someone setting up a very specific scenario based on a thousand different assumptions. So I thought if he can, I can too. Have you seen the comment that I quoted?

[SirCowdog]

I get what you mean, I do. The way you describe what you feel is happening to wow, reminds me of what has happened to Judo. Today, Judo is a watered down, bullshit sport not even worthy of its name. But guess what, the way things "are meant to be" changes over time to appease the masses.

But, yes, there's a but, as long as you - the niche player - can play the game how you want to, why deny others the option to play how they want to? Again, it doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form.

Well, that's the thing. The master loot example is fucking PERFECT for this illustration. Players used to be able to play how they wanted under Master loot. They could literally set the loot settings so that each individual person would get their stuff. All they had to do was set the setting. But that wasn't good enough. They had to force EVERYONE to play the way they wanted. And what happened? Now master loot doesn't exist. The way those people who wanted to play with master loot no longer exists.

THAT is what I'm talking about. THAT is the result of claiming that it's ok to "just let people play how they want". Because it inevitably leads to a master loot situation.

I mistakenly used high key pushers as an example. Nevertheless, the example I gave applies to anyone, whether it's key 10 or key 2, people want to go in and get out as fast as possible because the content is chewed, regurgitated and ruminated ass.

You can find it unreasonable and I agree with you, it is unreasonable, but it isn't strange or against the way it was intended.

I think you're injecting your own opinion of M+ into the argument. Which is fine, to a degree. But I think you should carefully consider that when you go into higher and higher keys, the game starts adding mutators to the run that changes the entire dynamic of each and every single fight. Despite being being the same layout, the encounters and pacing change significantly. Things like Torghast in the upcoming expansions will have the same sort of thing. That isn't boring. It's not repetitive because it changes from week to week, and from difficulty setting to difficulty setting.

The game wouldn't be "warped into an unrecognizable state" with an option you can ignore. What you suggest feels more like excluding anyone that has a different approach to gaming.

In reference to Dark Souls games? If you take away the difficulty the game absolutely would not even be the same. It would have the outward cosmetic appearance, but NOTHING that makes it Dark Souls would still be there. None of the frustration. None of the victory. It would be hollow(which is a pun you'll get if you've ever played those games).

Likewise with WoW, if you can just buy a level-capped character and immediately buy BiS gear, then go into end-game content and buy a carry, all with gold you purchased through the token...... then you basically haven't even played the game at all. The game is, in effect, completely unrecognizable from the progression-based game that it purports to be.

Is everyone doing this? No....not YET anyway. But It would appear to me that it's definitely the way in which Blizzard would LIKE everyone to play. FFS, they're even selling the wow token in china now!

They have? Well, that seems a stupid thing to me, since putting in an easy mode for those who would like to have a more relaxed experience doesn't have any impact on those of us who want the 'original' experience. Or are you afraid that the appeal of an easy mode would seduce you as well? If not, who the fuck cares.

Did your surgery go well, by the way?

It is not stupid, because there are PLENTY of times where, given the option, I would have given up and taken the easy way out. But in doing so I would have absolutely robbed myself of the feeling of justice and total victory rush when I finally beat the boss. I have literally broken both keyboards and controllers in frustration and anger at those games. But that is matched by a sense of victory and accomplishment of equal, if not greater, magnitude.

If you take that challenge and give a shortcut, it fundamentally changes the game into something lesser. It would change the community(who despite the shit talking of "git gud!", are some of the most helpful and informative people in the gaming world). That shared experience of "I beat Dark Souls" is something that would disappear if there was an easy mode. The difficulty of those games, and the associated accomplishments creates something that WOULD NOT EXIST if there was an easy setting.

Now...that doesn't necessarily translate directly to WoW. WoW is already an easy game except for the World First race. But WoW has it's own merits, such as the progression that I mentioned earlier. The community that is created by gathering together and working towards a common goal. The struggles of people trying to farm and compete against the other faction "stealing" their gathering nodes, or tagging the quest mob. The hype and excitement when that BiS item finally drops.

All of that evaporates when a person just swipes their CC and takes a trip to the AH. It absolutely undermines many of the core principles the game is founded on.

------------------------


The LASIK went amazing! I absolutely recommend it to anyone who near-sighted and wears contacts or glasses, if you can afford it. The actual operation was maybe 10 minutes, only mild discomfort for a handful of seconds. Granted, I think I'm one of the lucky few. Most people take the full 24-48 hours to recover that I mentioned earlier. I'm literally typing and playing videogames the next day.

- - - Updated - - -

OT: Does that mean you got your eyes lasered? AFAIK you shouldn't really be staring at a computer screen just yet o_O

I actually asked about that. They said it's fine as long as I take regular breaks and keep using the artificial tear drops. According to them most people actually return to work 24 hours after the operation. And I've also got this super rad cyberpunk-looking shades to wear. ;D

[Kaver]

I mistakenly used high key pushers as an example. Nevertheless, the example I gave applies to anyone, whether it's key 10 or key 2, people want to go in and get out as fast as possible because the content is chewed, regurgitated and ruminated ass.

I do a lot of M+ keys because I want to do them. I find M+ fun for the same reason why people find games like CS GO fun. It's repetitive. Very repetitive. But it's competitive. It's fun to improve and get better to see your rank increase. Even though the dungeons are the same, there are always things you can do differently to get better. Sure if you only run +10 keys and use the same strategy everytime then it will be boring as hell. It gets boring very quickly if the difficulty and challenge don't increase. But if you try to improve your strategy and think about clever things you can do next run to push your limits, then it is very fun and very competitive. That's why I don't mind doing the same dungeons over and over again.