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  1. #61
    Aw boy, we can WIN WoW now?

    Been playing 15 years so reckon I'm in with a chance. Sign me up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Dunno why some people got such a boner to be just a lowly peon-adventurer.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I will tell you how from perspective of Mythic raider.

    Big part of the fun we have that keeps us rolling is the challenge of getting good parses in raids. There is fun to that and fair (as far as it's possible) competition between guildies as well.

    Much of that was always based around both small scale guild and large scale - the scene having similar gear levels in the end. This however hurts this "minigame" a lot and that's why people are upset, because you can no longer really make it with skill, but you simply do need to have the correct corruptions that are nigh unobtainable to do good.
    I know, still doesnt change a fact, you can simply pay to win raids:
    https://i.imgur.com/ikiD8LD.png

  3. #63
    Guilds have been selling full clears through max-difficulty content for years now, both for money and for gold. BOEs are nothing compared to that.

    No, it's not P2W. It can only be called P2W if Blizzard is directly offering BiS-quality gear for money, which they will never do. WoW will never be P2W.
    Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    In p2w games you buy things you can't reasonably get without paying, directly, from the game developer. Buying gold to buy an upgrade isn't p2w.
    Buy crystals for real money spend crystals for power upgrades. You can also earn crystals by playing the game. Therefore its no p2w. That is literally the case for 99.99% of the games that are considered p2w.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    >Checks Damage taken
    >Eye of corruption

    I guess that Eye of corruption spawned out nowhere?
    I did say not a single point of corruption damage, these people are all like "you have to spend millions on inf stars!"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Buy crystals for real money spend crystals for power upgrades. You can also earn crystals by playing the game. Therefore its no p2w. That is literally the case for 99.99% of the games that are considered p2w.
    Those crystals you speak of only serve one use, the p2w shop, gold has many uses.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    It would take a ton of real life money to deck yourself out in great gear through the AH, especially if these pieces are 2-3 million gold each. The token has been floating around 150-180k gold for most of the expansion, meaning that you'd have to buy 10-12 tokens to get one piece. At $20 USD for a token, that would be $200-$240 USD - for a single piece.

    It would be easier to kill rares, finish assaults, and do visions than spend thousands of dollars to fully deck yourself out. That is not "pay to win" at all, so calm down with that narrative.
    Im at 100h+ hours ingametime(stopped counting) trying to get a good corr. If i spend that time at work(working extra) i could EASY buy many BOE.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I did say not a single point of corruption damage, these people are all like "you have to spend millions on inf stars!"
    There is corruption damage. A shit ton of corruption damage. Listed in dps meters or not - does not matter all.

  8. #68
    As long as people don't act like this was some diabolical/intentional act by Blizz. At the end of the day, these are player sold items that have nothing to do with Blizz. Someone could theoretically sell a top tier Corruption BoE or 1-10k gold and no one would be crying about P2W. The amount of people paying $200+ to buy a single BoE is infinitely smaller than most P2W heralds seem think. These items are being sold primarily to the vast amount of players/guilds in the game that have asinine amounts of gold that they've been stockpiling.

    "But it's still P2W. They could pay $200 and get a 15% dps increase". Sure, but what's going to happen later this year? What's going to happen when all of this is stripped away and ceases to exist? What's going to happen when the value of these BoE's goes down, and starts selling for a fraction of the price? What if you logged in on Tuesday and Blizz nerfed these 1mil+ traits by 80%?

    I understand the feeling that, a powerful item COULD be bought with money. However, anything in this game can be bought with money, and this supposed outlier is no different. Players create various economies in WoW, whether or not a specific sector is legal through Blizz's terms. Players also created the demand for the illegal gold selling industry and RMT, both things that cause a lot of headaches for Blizz. Blizz did not create any of these issues, they did not present the game with potential P2W situations, that was the playerbases doing.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I know, still doesnt change a fact, you can simply pay to win raids:
    https://i.imgur.com/ikiD8LD.png
    talk about p2w raids and then link an orange parser from WoD, what?

  10. #70
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    None that you could outright buy and even the ones that were really good weren't typically costing an insane amount, such as trinkets scribes could make.

    You're just wrong about pvp. You must not arena much, if at all. Corruption is absolutely broken in arena. It is no where near "nerfed to the ground".
    Was referring to player damage in general which is absolutely reduced, significantly so, in PvP. Complaining about corruption in arena is pointless, as it relates to this topic, as the issue there is corruption itself. If the ONLY source of corruption effects was BOEs then yeah you'd be a lot closer to having a point. But they aren't, so you don't.

    And we can argue costs and amount and %'s or whatever until we're blue in the face. The game isn't pay to win, and the OP doesn't even seem to get what 'pay to win' actually means as it relates to games.

    By the OP's obtuse definition of P2W (pwning teh meturz omgggg!!!111) I've been 'winning' WoW most of the time I've been playing it.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Siaer View Post
    You aren't going to suddenly be able to clear +15s or mythic raids just because you purchased 2 pieces of BoE gear. If you are crap at the game, those two items aren't going to make you less crap.
    but you increase your 65k dps to 85k (if played properly) this alone get you recrutet into better guilds > better progress chances, i personaly switched from EV to IS and went from 79k to 86k dps over 1 item thats a huge deal (in a legion legendary scale)

  12. #72
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    As long as people don't act like this was some diabolical/intentional act by Blizz. At the end of the day, these are player sold items that have nothing to do with Blizz. Someone could theoretically sell a top tier Corruption BoE or 1-10k gold and no one would be crying about P2W. The amount of people paying $200+ to buy a single BoE is infinitely smaller than most P2W heralds seem think. These items are being sold primarily to the vast amount of players/guilds in the game that have asinine amounts of gold that they've been stockpiling.

    "But it's still P2W. They could pay $200 and get a 15% dps increase". Sure, but what's going to happen later this year? What's going to happen when all of this is stripped away and ceases to exist? What's going to happen when the value of these BoE's goes down, and starts selling for a fraction of the price? What if you logged in on Tuesday and Blizz nerfed these 1mil+ traits by 80%?

    I understand the feeling that, a powerful item COULD be bought with money. However, anything in this game can be bought with money, and this supposed outlier is no different. Players create various economies in WoW, whether or not a specific sector is legal through Blizz's terms. Players also created the demand for the illegal gold selling industry and RMT, both things that cause a lot of headaches for Blizz. Blizz did not create any of these issues, they did not present the game with potential P2W situations, that was the playerbases doing.
    One of the only common-sense posts in this topic. ^
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  13. #73
    Scarab Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

    Is this good gameplay or not? Pay to win?

    Blizzard probly happy about it as they earn more $$$
    Something smells of dead fish in here....

    To answer your question, it's fine for gameplay.


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  14. #74
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    Guilds have been selling full clears through max-difficulty content for years now, both for money and for gold. BOEs are nothing compared to that.

    No, it's not P2W. It can only be called P2W if Blizzard is directly offering BiS-quality gear for money, which they will never do. WoW will never be P2W.
    This right here.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I did say not a single point of corruption damage, these people are all like "you have to spend millions on inf stars!"
    So it's okay because there are corruptions that don't deal direct damage?

    To get this straight:
    So if a certain class favours stat boost over direct damage - it's okay.
    If a certain class favours direct damage - it's not okay.

    Despite both of these effects coming out of the same system?

    So this is not okay?
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=14

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    There is corruption damage. A shit ton of corruption damage. Listed in dps meters or not - does not matter all.
    Ah yes, that whopping like 300 more mastery from his corruptions totally made him win and not his skill

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    talk about p2w raids and then link an orange parser from WoD, what?
    I am that orange parser and we sold full clear mythic + mount boosts then.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    So it's okay because there are corruptions that don't deal direct damage?

    To get this straight:
    So if a certain class favours stat boost over direct damage - it's okay.
    If a certain class favours direc damage - it's not okay.

    Despite both of these effects coming out of the same system?

    So this is not okay?
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=14
    That's an outlier, there's a couple in there for now, but they'll be pushed out.

    the 300 or so mastery that corruptions gave pepe at the time wouldn't have provided 31% of his dmg.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I am that orange parser and we sold full clear mythic + mount boosts then.
    That's been happening since Vanilla. It's not a new thing, shit we used to sell Thunderfury drops.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Rank 1 world (in every class, not just mage) mage currently on Ra'den, not a single point of corruption damage https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=16
    Heaven forbid seeing the better players budget their corruption correctly, as opposed to saying "LuLW Infinite Stars on Xanesh Heroic!" /s
    The argument of Corruption being powerful is moot, however I'd argue proper Azerite and Neck essences can be just as impactful; let alone playing well.
    I've stated elsewhere on this forum, my Corruption is 61 in raid and is a net gain of 12% dps. I can swing that much by playing badly

    Anytime you see a log of a DH on Shadhar where 25+% of his damage is stars (which is a super specific outlier in it's own right) , ask yourself how much he would have done with the same Corruption value, on something else like Lash of the Void and Gushing wounds. Hint: they're almost identical on sims.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    As if the horde faction imbalance could be worse now we have floofy foxes
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    and he's got a fat ass
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    This thread is a nice reminder that Blizzard can do something nice and still get absolutely shit on for it.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Ah yes, that whopping like 300 more mastery from his corruptions totally made him win and not his skill
    Good players stay good players - if they buy power for real money or not. I thought we cleared that already......

    You are literially like "here one player who didnt spend couple millions on boe and is good, therefore buying power for real money is not buying power for real money." Are you intentionally trolling at this point?

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