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  1. #881
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    https://blizzardwatch.com/2019/02/08...first-raiding/

    This isn't the first time that the "world first" guilds have stated how much gold they have spent. People, or rather the outrage culture, only cares now because of corruption mechanics. The world first guilds have not been shy in how much they spend to get any advantage they can. They spend tons of gold every time there is a race and have for years.
    Race change and boe gear what straight up boost your dps by 20% are completly different things. Oh Method player spend 20 dollars to get 0.5% more dmg from racial vs method guy buying 10 tokens for 200 dollars to buy bis boe item.

  2. #882
    Brewmaster CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    WoW is Pay to Lose now.

    When you pay you support the bad design they are doing right now so you either lose the game you once liked by quitting, or you keep playing the crap they do today. There's no winning in this for us.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  3. #883
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    When i say WIN. I mean WIN DPS meters. Haveing good dps helps out alot. Both in raids and arena. And NO BOE have never been this strong. When could a BOE do 30-50% of your total damage almost by itself? Its not normal anyway .

    You can have all the BIS in every slot: that doesn't mean you are going to auto win dps meters.

    Not how that works.
    "When you've got to get down, but can't find the elevator, you have to do it any way you can. Even if it's with a shovel."- Dark Tower II: Drawing of the Three, Stephen King
    Juju's kgpanels: http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/jujus-kgpanels Juju's blog: http://mouthygoblin.weebly.com/jujus-blog.html#/

  4. #884
    Quote Originally Posted by taheen74 View Post
    You can have all the BIS in every slot: that doesn't mean you are going to auto win dps meters.

    Not how that works.
    Win in P2Win phrase do no stand for wining. It stands for buying power for real money. Its slang.

  5. #885
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Race change and boe gear what straight up boost your dps by 20% are completly different things. Oh Method player spend 20 dollars to get 0.5% more dmg from racial vs method guy buying 10 tokens for 200 dollars to buy bis boe item.
    It is not different. Method spending 40-100 million gold in 8.1 is no different then spending the same, or higher, amount in 8.3. It doesn't matter if corruption offers more power then past BoE's. It is still spending millions of god to gain an advantage that they have never hidden (at least since the tokens have been released). Most times they don't even use tokens but take out loans from others.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #886
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is not different. Method spending 40-100 million gold in 8.1 is no different then spending the same, or higher, amount in 8.3. It doesn't matter if corruption offers more power then past BoE's. It is still spending millions of god to gain an advantage that they have never hidden (at least since the tokens have been released). Most times they don't even use tokens but take out loans from others.
    I was talking about why it was exposed to publick. Ofc race change or any rype of microtransaction what earns you power is also pay2win.

  7. #887
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    I was talking about why it was exposed to publick. Ofc race change or any rype of microtransaction what earns you power is also pay2win.
    But this isn't the first time it has been made known. I posted a link to an article from 8.1 which you don't seem to be aware was prior to 8.3. And that is just for this expansion. It has been known by anyone who cared to know that Method and other guilds spend gold or "favors" to fund what they need to do to win world firsts. They easily make that gold back by doing boost and carries.

    So it isn't different. It has been done before and will be done once corruption is gone. Because it is what is required of world first competitors. To take every advantage they can.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #888
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Karl View Post
    I refuse to believe that mythic gear being VASTLY inferior to world quest rewards isn't new and impactful. To pretend otherwise is folly.
    and it have nothing to do with p2w, as you can only buy BoE gear that drops in raid and not the gear from wq...

  9. #889
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    and it have nothing to do with p2w, as you can only buy BoE gear that drops in raid and not the gear from wq...
    Well you can craft it but you want to argue a position I suspect you know isn't tenable. I refuse to believe a person here is going to argue in good faith that a 430 wrist or ring should utterly crush a 475 weapon in terms of total dps gained due to a proc.

  10. #890
    Unfortunately, for me for the first time in WoW ever since starting back in Vanilla 15 years ago, I feel that indeed it has reached the point where having $$ to spend ingame gives a very real advantage.

    Corruption system suffers from the same issue as early Azerite, where acquisition is way too slow and what is "easier" to get is not optimal at all, despite often being in top difficulty content. EXCEPT, you can now literally buy it off AH, BIS corruption pieces and all.

    For example in my case "Expedient" corruption is simply a boatloads better than almost anything else by a good margin and out of all Expedient items I have - only one was a natural drop for me - the rest AH. The power I bought is very real, no it's not 100% more damage, but it is easy 10-15% right there for what amounts to about 15 tokens worth of gold total for me. For mythic raiding it's a lot.

    Yes, some people may argue semantics there as in "you are not "winning", so it's not Pay2Win" and other nonsense, but frankly that's a very shaky defense - if we even get there, it's already showing things are not very good on that front.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And as a side note, people certainly can't claim I'm some Blizz hater or some such. In general I am positive about Blizz and WoW team, but they really have gone and fucked it up this time around.

    I hope we won't have this shit at this magnitude in Shadowlands. They have taken this too far for my tastes.

  11. #891
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Karl View Post
    Well you can craft it but you want to argue a position I suspect you know isn't tenable. I refuse to believe a person here is going to argue in good faith that a 430 wrist or ring should utterly crush a 475 weapon in terms of total dps gained due to a proc.
    which is a problem with corruption balance, still not a p2w issue...

  12. #892
    Top guilds have (or should have) easily tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of gold between them. They don't need to buy tokens for real money to get those couple great BIS items each. They just use the gold.

    Maybe the plebs who have no idea how to make gold in the game do it, who knows. It's their money. And the reason nobody is answering if it's "good gameplay" is because the whole question makes no sense.

  13. #893
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    which is a problem with corruption balance, still not a p2w issue...
    There won't be balance ever, at best things may get close, but putting key random generated power boosts on BoE items is about as bad of a decision as benthic socket. It's even worse, because at least socket benthic you got by playing the game, where as bis corruptions on AH for exorbitant prices you can literally buy with $$.

    I did and I'm not the only one.

  14. #894
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    WoW is Pay to Lose now.

    When you pay you support the bad design they are doing right now so you either lose the game you once liked by quitting, or you keep playing the crap they do today. There's no winning in this for us.
    Exactly THIS.

    The only thing you do, by buying a Token, is to teach them they can get 7 Euros out of nothing, so they have not to invest 1% more into the game, to get 1 more sub, because they already got 7 Euros for doing nothing.

    Pay to Win in WoW leads nowhere than to a cheap shit, heavy recycled, super cost effective crap, based on cash grab systems, to maximize milking the cow. What you get in the end is cheap shit grind systems, content with recycled old zones, gear „systems“ because they are cheap (only DB Entries and some Code), instead designed expensive content, and so on. Oh wait... we are already there.

    So, if you wanna make wow great again, stop buying Tokens. Or keep on with teaching Blizz that we do not need a good, high quality product, to pay them, and live with fucked up wow expansions.

  15. #895
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    There won't be balance ever, at best things may get close, but putting key random generated power boosts on BoE items is about as bad of a decision as benthic socket. It's even worse, because at least socket benthic you got by playing the game, where as bis corruptions on AH for exorbitant prices you can literally buy with $$.

    I did and I'm not the only one.
    you can get both gold and corrupted items by playing the game... and if you do play you get dozens of corrupted items, problem is randomnes and balance, neither of which have anything to do with p2w...
    and sorry, but BoE items even before corruption were on AH for milions, and powerfull BoE items are thing since vanila, but unlike before now you have guaranteed sources of corrupted items

    and given how corruptions were pretty much all nerfed ( i think TD is last standing strong) people who bought them just wasted gold/money

    i think it cant be p2w as you dont gain power you TRANSFER IT from another player as he has to be wiling to sell the corrupted item, reducing his own power

  16. #896
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    you can get both gold and corrupted items by playing the game... and if you do play you get dozens of corrupted items, problem is randomnes and balance, neither of which have anything to do with p2w...
    and sorry, but BoE items even before corruption were on AH for milions, and powerfull BoE items are thing since vanila, but unlike before now you have guaranteed sources of corrupted items

    and given how corruptions were pretty much all nerfed ( i think TD is last standing strong) people who bought them just wasted gold/money

    i think it cant be p2w as you dont gain power you TRANSFER IT from another player as he has to be wiling to sell the corrupted item, reducing his own power
    What you say is a bunch of mental gymnastics.

    I literally bought my way to the top spot in my guild powerwise along the other members of same class. I took ~400 Eurobucks, tossed it at Blizzard and I have all the corruptions I need and more.

    I never had to do this shit in such a magnitude in past ever, at most I'd buy a couple of tokens for some specific BoE which was mostly a case of impatience as opposed to necessity, because getting a mythic level BoE simply saves you 2-4 weeks before you'd get it anyway to drop, but getting a BoE that has this 2/52 chance corruption that is your absolute BiS is on a whole other level.

    Luckily for me 400 Euros is no biggie and I'm willing to spend on my leisure/hobbies, but it certainly is not OK when you look at it from objective point of view.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Heck, I'm not even talking about the quoted shaky argument can be glued to every shitty mobile freemium game ever.

    "What do you mean Pay2Win? You can get this all by playing a game." Yes, yes you can, if you don't mind wasting hundreds of hours on shit activities you don't even enjoy.

  17. #897

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