WOW- Now pay to win?

[ro9ue]

With corruption it was most definitely pay to win. One BoE could double your dps.

Generally its just kind of an indirect pay to win. You can buy tokens, buy carries in game and buy a few powerful BoEs off the AH.

I think people think if you aren't buying an item directly off the cash shop its not pay to win, but all Blizzard has to do is set up a 2 or 3-point transaction system that accomplishes the same thing for them and they get to dodge any major controversy.

[rhorle]

I have no idea how you can play the game in 2020 (and 8.3 of all patches!) And unironically claim its not p2w.

Buying gold doesn't get you anything. You can be gold capped and not win anything. It is what you do with that gold that could allow you to win at stuff. You are not paying real money for the win. You are paying real money to enable you to get a win the same as someone who gained there gold 100% in-game.

[Kralljin]

You don't win anything by buying gold though. Because it transfers wealth and does not create it. All you are doing is coming in second place to a person that has already won that gold.

By that logic, selling Rank one Gladiator isn't Pay to win if the booster gives up their spot for you because you paid them.

Like mate, the reason why Blizzard just doesn't sell gold because it inflates the economy, but the principle is the same.
You pay Blizzard real money, you get a fixed amount (depending on the time of purchase) of gold for it.

[rhorle]

By that logic, selling Rank one Gladiator isn't Pay to win if the booster gives up their spot for you because you paid them.

Selling things for gold isn't pay to win because you are not transferring real money even if you obtain that gold with real money. If the booster is selling the service for real money then it would be pay to win. Your argument is saying that any gold transaction in the game is pay to win. Which is dumb because of dilution of the term. Buy an enchant? Pay to win. Buy a gem? Pay to win. Buy a BoE? Pay to win.

If everything is pay to win then there is no point in calling it out for specific mounts or making a big deal about it.

[Kralljin]

Selling things for gold isn't pay to win because you are not transferring real money even if you obtain that gold with real money.

"It's not pay to win if Blizzard delivers the gold".

Yeah, i forgot why i shouldn't argue with some people over Blizzards actions, because that's what you get, mental gymnastics.

[Accendor]

Words of an LFR player

CE, but continue dreaming ;-)

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Buying gold doesn't get you anything. You can be gold capped and not win anything. It is what you do with that gold that could allow you to win at stuff. You are not paying real money for the win. You are paying real money to enable you to get a win the same as someone who gained there gold 100% in-game.

... Which is still p2w

[ymirsson]

... Which is still p2w

So you can't get CE unless you pay Blizzard money for hat privilege specifically?
Did you have to afk in the raid or was it delivered while you were loggged off?

[razorpax]

Wow-token + Overpriced mounts says hi.

If you are a mount collector then you do the paragon caches

Each gives 3-5k

Also running raids like fire lands gets 3k

If you are never able to afford overpriced mounts (they’ve always existed even in wrath) then it’s on you

[rhorle]

"It's not pay to win if Blizzard delivers the gold". Yeah, i forgot why i shouldn't argue with some people over Blizzards actions, because that's what you get, mental gymnastics.

So you agree that buying an enchant with gold is pay to win? The only mental gymnastics here is from you and your inability to call actions what they are. If using gold to buy a boost is pay to win then so is using gold for an enchant, a gem, or anything else in the game. How far do we trace the source of gold? If my friend gives me 30k is it pay to win for me to use that if he got it from a token?

What if I bought a token last month and buy a boost this month. Is that pay to win? How can you tell if i used the "pay" gold versus the non-pay gold?

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... Which is still p2w

So the entire game is pay to win because you can buy power with gold. What is the point of discussing here if the only answer is the game has always been pay to win?

[Kralljin]

So you agree that buying an enchant with gold is pay to win?

Did you play for the gold you've been buying them?
No?

It's not pay to win, as you played the game to acquire the currency.

Did you buy the gold from Blizzard via the WoW token?
Technically, yes.

[ymirsson]

Did you play for the gold you've been buying them?
No?

It's not pay to win, as you played the game to acquire the currency.

Did you buy the gold from Blizzard via the WoW token?
Technically, yes.

So if i sold commodities in a different game acquired by playing to buy a token, it would not be p2w anymore?

[ketsui]

But Im right, its only your opinion and I disagree with it - WoW is pay to win.

Have a nice day =)

It’s only pay to win if you’re so bad you cannot get in a guild that does stuff or refuse to join a guild. My guess is you fit into one of those two categories and have decided your only choice since no one wants to play with you is to buy tokens and pay for carries. So a good edit would be “I’m bad so this game is p2w”

[Kralljin]

So if i sold commodities in a different game acquired by playing to buy a token, it would not be p2w anymore?

I'm not really interested in stretching this discussion beyond WoW, because i'm not familiar with how the Token can be potentially acquired in other games and has on top of that little to do with this discussion.

It quite clearly focuses on the Pay Blizzard => Get WoW Token transaction.

[Halfaheart]

But Im right, its only your opinion and I disagree with it - WoW is pay to win.

Have a nice day =)

The problem is that you're being a contrarian just to be argumentative. In no way is the game P2W and you've provided no proof. When pushed on it you ignore actual claims and push nonsense criticisms again for the sake of argument. I hope you don't use the Auction House at all because a potential buyer might be using Token Gold

[rhorle]

Did you play for the gold you've been buying them?No? It's not pay to win, as you played the game to acquire the currency. Did you buy the gold from Blizzard via the WoW token? Technically, yes.

Someone played for that gold though. Tokens create no gold. They only transfer it from one player to another. So if my friend buys gold and gives it to me everything I spend that gold on is pay to win? No one buys gold from Blizzard. You buy the gold from other players for battle.net balance. Blizzard takes a $5 fee for every transaction.

[ymirsson]

I'm not really interested in stretching this discussion beyond WoW, because i'm not familiar with how the Token can be potentially acquired in other games and has on top of that little to do with this discussion.

It quite clearly focuses on the Pay Blizzard => Get WoW Token transaction.

play other games to make money -> buy token in WoW. Its a hypothetical of course, but the token would have been acquired by playing a game.

[ketsui]

This whole thread is full of misunderstanding probably because the people who are confused never played any game besides wow. In other games such as final fantasy 14, it takes 3-6 months to finish the storyline or some crazy amount of time. This can be skipped with a 20 dollar storyline purchase from the shop. That’s what P2W is. Not optional cosmetics.

[Kralljin]

Someone played for that gold though. Tokens create no gold.

Yep, just like you pay a gold farmer.

You're paying someone real money to play the game for you, that's the crux.

Its a hypothetical of course

Too bad i'm not interested engaging in hypothetical mind games, so tough luck.

[ymirsson]

Yep, just like you pay a gold farmer.

You're paying someone real money to play the game for you, that's the crux.

Too bad i'm not interested engaging in hypothetical mind games, so tough luck.

Ok, dismissing other people's thoughts always shows a disinterest in being proven wrong, good to know.

[Kralljin]

Ok, dismissing other people's thoughts always shows a disinterest in being proven wrong, good to know.

No, it's just a pointless thought game.

You said it yourself: It's hypothetical, so don't get pissed when some people aren't interested in those hypothetical scenarios that only have a tangential connection to the discussion at hand.