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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    It's been like this since Vanilla. It's probably more expensive now because if you want to buy a 2m gold ring with infinite stars on it, you're going to need a shitload of tokens

    And the influx of tokens drives the price down, so you'll get less and less for every other token you list
    Currently an NA toke is worth 150k so about 14 tokens or 350 bucks.

    1000 gold in vanilla for something like a mount would run you OVER 500. It's gotten cheaper if anything.

  2. #122
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post



    Even those guilds would disagree with you.
    Then give us a quote and link where they do?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbydude65 View Post
    A lot of the Dark Moon Faire Cards were flat 15% damage boosts in past expansions. Heck even this expansion, I'm pretty sure Darkmoon Deck Fathoms was a huge portion of people's DPS.
    Not 15%. Not even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Then give us a quote and link where they do?
    You think they'd spend nearly $5000 worth of gold if they didn't think that?

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    Those other procs and buffs cause and exponential increase with the extra mastery. I guarantee you it's close to 30% more dps over the same items without the corruption.

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    Wrong.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=14

    He only had 1 rank 3 infinite stars piece.
    You can't guarantee shit, there's no way that 300ish mastery turned into 30% of his damage.


    And welcome to outliers, you ignore the outliers. The fact that there is even a survival hunter on the top at all is questionable.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Currently an NA toke is worth 150k so about 14 tokens or 350 bucks.

    1000 gold in vanilla for something like a mount would run you OVER 500. It's gotten cheaper if anything.
    1000 gold in vanilla was not $500 lol. It was closer to 10 cents per gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    You can't guarantee shit, there's no way that 300ish mastery turned into 30% of his damage.


    And welcome to outliers, you ignore the outliers. The fact that there is even a survival hunter on the top at all is questionable.
    questionable how? He has rank 3 infinite stars. It's an "outlier" (it's actually not you should look up the definition of outlier) because he has infinite stars.

  6. #126
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Let me get this straight, going by the logic of some people, it's only pay to win if i'm able to use these items on Mythic N'zoth or in a Match that secures me the R1 for that season?

    But let me guess, i can't buy every achievement and to win the game, i need 100% of all achievements, so it's still not pay to win!
    Well...since everyone has their own definition of p2w...you can always decide where it meets your requirements. No idea about you...but in 15 years..I never felt I "won" the game. I mean..I felt pretty cool getting rank 10 in pvp in Vanilla...but at the end of the day it was just the group pwning my server looking for ppl to fill up their ranks.

    So...yeah..I don't have a clue how you "win" WoW

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    You think they'd spend nearly $5000 worth of gold if they didn't think that?
    WF race is different, there's no time to get the right items, they spend millions on boe's every WF race, the boe's were just worth more money this time around. They would buy every advantage they could, even if it's 1%.

    It doesn't take away the skill involved though, you just have to keep up with the jones's at that level. Limit and method both spent insane amounts on items (even transfering peoples characters to get ahold of them) but guess what, in the end the corruptions didn't win for them, their skill did.

  8. #128
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post



    You think they'd spend nearly $5000 worth of gold if they didn't think that?
    I think they actually spend more...but you are still putting words in somebody's mouth and not providing a source. And at the end of the day, there are like two-three guilds who think they can win the WF race and seven or so more who have fun participating and probably also invest a shit ton of gold an real money.


    Guess the paid to...not win?

    But again...if WoW is pay to win...then does ever random Joe with money in their pocket can pay...and what do they win?

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    1000 gold in vanilla was not $500 lol. It was closer to 10 cents per gold.

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    questionable how? He has rank 3 infinite stars. It's an "outlier" (it's actually not you should look up the definition of outlier) because he has infinite stars.
    I bought gold in vanilla, it was definitely not "10c per gold", 1000 gold was 500 OR MORE depending on where you looked.

    It's an outlier because no very few peoples IS is doing 30%, there's a similar outlier with a balance druid on Wrathion

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It's still not pay to win in the slightest lol, you can also get those 2 slots you could have bought by, you know, playing the game.
    Still didn't have the luck get a better corruption piece equivalent to Tier 3 Tentacles.
    Want to know where i find one? The auction house.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    but hey, if you want to bitch about someone dropping all their gold on a few pieces that will be obsolete in a few months time, go for it. Maybe just quit and save yourself the hassle, I for one hope they figure out a way to have a similar system in SL.
    "if you don't like something, fuck off, real fans like anything"

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    "if you don't like something, fuck off, real fans like anything"
    No, I just love the system and would rather people not ruin it. People can have different opinions.

    Thing is, some people get salty over the state of the game and want it changed to the way THEY want it to be, instead of just sucking it up and realizing the game isn't being made for them.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Currently an NA toke is worth 150k so about 14 tokens or 350 bucks.

    1000 gold in vanilla for something like a mount would run you OVER 500. It's gotten cheaper if anything.
    mmmm, nope.

    I know this because I did it.

    At the peak, something around $20-50 (for my server) was 1,000 gold. Was a no brainer

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Potatowizard View Post
    mmmm, nope.

    I know this because I did it.

    At the peak, something around $20-50 (for my server) was 1,000 gold. Was a no brainer
    Manno it was over 500, I remember it clearly as I was usually buying about 100-200 for around 50 depending on sales.

  14. #134
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    What does "winning" even mean in the context of WoW? The World First Race is an unofficial event engaged in by an exceptionally small crowd of players, and the officially supported esports events (AWC, MDI) are hosted on tournament servers.

    Like, yeah, you can spend WoW Tokens on gear to progress a bit faster, but who cares? I just don't see where the competition comes into it. For the vast majority of content in WoW, you're only competing against yourself, and clearing content isn't the end of the road anyway, since you're gonna keep farming that content.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    Those are some incredible mental gymnastics dude.

    You can buy the most powerful items in the game through the use of real money. That's pay to win.
    To be technical, the most powerful items in the game come from Carapace and N'zoth. No BoE has the ilvl of those items.

    Anyway, the point of that whole post is to showcase the differences in situations like this, and what you get in a game like Clash of Clans (or some similar mobile game). P2W, MTX, etc, these phrases get tossed around with the same weight to things that are drastically different. Most games have some element of P2W in them, it's unavoidable in any game where 1 player can assist another. However, there's a difference when a game developer literally sells power directly to you, and when you have to go through, and rely on, intermediaries to gain power increases.

    In a previous thread, I used Rift as an example. They're cash shop sells you top end gear directly on the store. A full set of raid gear, for like $100 worth of gems. You can buy a variety of other types of gear, you can buy items that let you skip grinds for gear upgrade items, or even the gear upgrade item itself. Mind you, these were also done at a point where this gear is pretty much never going to be replaced for the remainder of the game. So, if you want these essentially permanent BiS items, you spend the gems, and these things are put directly in your bags at the point of purchase. There's no variable, no depending on someone else, no player economy involved, no other steps. Just you and the game dev.

    Compare that to something like WoW, and you have potential situations like the one I posted before. You could also have your tokens sell and there's a glorious piece waiting for you in the AH. You could also find that the one you wanted, socketed with leech, isn't there, and just a base version is there, or maybe you wanted IS but instead it's EV. This is nowhere near the same as something like Rift, or one of the various Whale-based mobile games.

    Is it P2W by the definition that you spent some form of real money and that transaction ultimately lead you get a power increase? Sure, but just like you will say it's facetious for someone to outright say there's no P2W in the scenario, it's equally disingenuous to try and act like it's as detrimental as the other systems out there, or that it is some nefarious action by blizz.

    Side Note: I see a fair amount of people claiming it's only an issue now because blizz decided to sell WoW tokens. I don't think people remember just how much of a headache the gold farming industry was for blizz. They had to spend untold amounts of man hours on scammed/hacked/banned accounts during those days. Prior to the launch of the WoW token, they acknowledged that their actions up to that weren't making an impact, because there will always be players who want to just buy gold. Thus a major part of the WoW token was to alleviate that issue. Since then, I've seen considerably less instances of players getting hacked by gold sellers (the typical, hack your account and sell everything on it), or other gold seller situations that I was used to. Players were going to buy gold, whether it was from Blizz or not, and the easiest way to cut down on the amount of issues presented was to directly step in. They didn't implement the token to "allow P2W", they did to help give the players who were going to do it anyway a safer environment to do it in. Less headaches for Blizz, less headaches for those players.

  16. #136
    No. It's not P2W. Good gear doesn't make a good player. It just makes bad ones a tiny bit harder to spot is all.

  17. #137
    Stood in the Fire Emmithyst's Avatar
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    No, WoW isn't p2w. Maybe if they started selling mythic keys in the cash shop or some other similar nonsense.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    No, I just love the system and would rather people not ruin it. People can have different opinions.

    Thing is, some people get salty over the state of the game and want it changed to the way THEY want it to be, instead of just sucking it up and realizing the game isn't being made for them.
    This discussion wouldn't even exist if corruption was just disabled on BoE's.
    Would corruption be a dysfunctional system without BoE's? I doubt it.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Potatowizard View Post
    mmmm, nope.

    I know this because I did it.

    At the peak, something around $20-50 (for my server) was 1,000 gold. Was a no brainer
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Manno it was over 500, I remember it clearly as I was usually buying about 100-200 for around 50 depending on sales.
    The issue here, is during the early days, prices varied wildly from server to server. With how difficult it was to get set up for farming, and potentially limited economies, they couldn't have consistent pricing. For example, 1k back for me in Vanilla was around $100. For some of my friends on other servers, it was closer to $150.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    The issue here, is during the early days, prices varied wildly from server to server. With how difficult it was to get set up for farming, and potentially limited economies, they couldn't have consistent pricing. For example, 1k back for me in Vanilla was around $100. For some of my friends on other servers, it was closer to $150.
    True, it was like that all the way up until I stopped buying from the Chinese when blizzard released a safer method.

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