WOW- Now pay to win?

[Seranthor]

Yeah topping the DPS it not really important no. Agree. IF you gunna look at the big picture. If you anjoy be last on DPS meter and still enjoy the game. And if your guild are ok with " boosting you" when you hitting the harder HC and mythic bosses. Not really big problem..... But the fact that they made BOE have corr on them are a bad move. When you can get the best gear in the game not even playing the game. Something are wrong. You dont even need to get boosted. Just go to the AH.

So what is stopping you? The AH is right there, your wallet is right there... open it up and buy your win.

[scarletanh]

Yeah topping the DPS it not really important no. Agree. IF you gunna look at the big picture. If you anjoy be last on DPS meter and still enjoy the game. And if your guild are ok with " boosting you" when you hitting the harder HC and mythic bosses. Not really big problem..... But the fact that they made BOE have corr on them are a bad move. When you can get the best gear in the game not even playing the game. Something are wrong. You dont even need to get boosted. Just go to the AH.

People seem to like ignoring the fact that it's what you DO after getting those BoE that matters, not the BoE themselves.
Will you go from heroic to mythic with 1 piece of BoE? No. And if you are wasting THOUSAND DOLLAR money on those BoE just to clear HC, you not clearing Mythic anytime sooner than those without these BoE.
What about mythic raiding then, your buying BoE doesnt make it so you can YOLO the fck outa the raid, it really doesnt, your personal skill still matter more. And unless you competing for that World First, then you clearing 50th or 98th doesnt matter with BoE or not, you still clear the hardest content of the game, "the winning" of WoW.
So no, it's not pay to win.

[kenn9530]

1. Topping dps meters in Mythic Waycrest Manor isn't 'pay to win'.

2. There have been outliers (in regards to one item/proc dealing a disproportionate amount of your damage) in nearly every expansion.

3. Damage is nerfed into the ground in PvP/Arena, so your OP game-breaking BOE that wins World of Warcraft doesn't guarantee = lolwin@pvp.

4. Look outside and you'll see that the sky is, in fact, not falling. It'll be okay.

No idea why I'm wasting my time replying to a 6-post burner account that just wanted to grind an axe and stoke 'Blizz is the devil' flames, but there it is.

in pvp the corrupted items are very strong they can make up at least half the damage you take, so if you up against a team without them and your both skilled teams then the corrupted items will make you win everytime, plus pay to win in WoW is not just about power its about having things other players dont have access too like end boss mythic mounts/acheivements, there are elements of pay to win in many games.

[Constraint]

You don't win Mythic World first by AHing BOEs, you win it by being the best players. You can put your standard/average WoW player in the best BOEs and they still aren't clearing shit they couldn't have already cleared.

And like others have pointed out (sad that it even has to be pointed out) you've always been able to buy BOEs in AH including some BIS items. But please, tell us more about buying items and how you automatically win the game with them.

It's ignorant and short-sighted people like this that really help greedy companies like Blizzard ruin games.

Yes, you've always been able to buy BoEs on the AH, but in the past, i.e most of WoW's existence, gold wasn't (legally) purchasable via tokens. You couldn't (without cheating) just bust out your credit card and buy great gear. Now you can.

Now, your next argument is usually along the lines of "but but but you don't suddenly win the game if you have great gear, so how is that pay to WIN, when you're not winning the game".

Load of shit, that argument. Pay to win doesn't mean you instantly clock the game, instantly 1-shot the hardest bosses, instantly get all achievements, mounts, pets and women.

It simply means spending external currency to gain an in-game advantage. Look it up. It's not rocket science.

And PLEASE, for the love of all that's holy, don't say "but but but you can already buy or earn those items in other ways, so how is it an 'in-game advantage'?" It's an in-game advantage because you bought it without earning it. It's in-game power at the flick of a credit card that you would otherwise have had to play the game to achieve. That's kinda the point of MMOs, to put the effort in and earn things. Again, this isn't rocket science here, it's pretty simple shit.

WoW DOES have P2W mechanics in place at the moment. They certainly aren't as predatory as many other games' mechanics may be. I.e there aren't levels that are locked behind pay walls, or gear otherwise unobtainable that you can only get with $$ (cosmetics aside).

But anyone claiming that WoW is free of P2W mechanics nowadays is either deluded or outright stupid. It's that simple.

[Xauro]

People seem to like ignoring the fact that it's what you DO after getting those BoE that matters, not the BoE themselves.
Will you go from heroic to mythic with 1 piece of BoE? No. And if you are wasting THOUSAND DOLLAR money on those BoE just to clear HC, you not clearing Mythic anytime sooner than those without these BoE.
What about mythic raiding then, your buying BoE doesnt make it so you can YOLO the fck outa the raid, it really doesnt, your personal skill still matter more. And unless you competing for that World First, then you clearing 50th or 98th doesnt matter with BoE or not, you still clear the hardest content of the game, "the winning" of WoW.
So no, it's not pay to win.

Well i tend to think if you are that person that buys that BOE you kinda good player aswell. Same with the guy that grinds the game for X00 hours. Both person tend to be good player as a base. They wouldnt go so far to gain so little. No they are probly good. But a good player with bad corr gear. Will not be better then a good player WITH corr gear. And as i said...if you like being the last player or far from the top Good for you. Let everyone boost you. If it feels good after X00 hours in the game. Im happy for you! But thats not good gameplay based purely on luck. And the DIFF maybe not be that that big if you not like top 20 guild in the world. True i agree....but the fact that there is BOE that you can get by not palying the game and you dont even need a boost. Just go to the AH. IS stupid.

[rhorle]

2 diff things... what i said in OP is one thing. And what i feel is one thing. IF i said in OP that its pay to win. And then i reply you saying its not. I would understand you but that not the case. So to make it clear for you. I didnt say its pay to win in OP. I ASKED if it is. But if you would ask me. I would say its close to pay to win dpsmeter. YES. I also asked about if its good gameplay....so when i said "it dosnt feel good. " that was what i mean.

Why claim something in the original post if you don't actually feel that is the case? You said you feel it is pay to win. It doesn't matter if you claimed otherwise in the original post because you said you feel it is in a later post. You also keep changing what your point is. Not pay to win, pay to win, relying on luck, and now pay to win dps meter.

There is no pay to win and pay to win dps meter. It is all pay to win. If you are making different levels of pay to win then the issue has nothing to do with being able to buy a "win". It has everything to do with whatever you don't like and using pay to win as a scapegoat instead of better articulating what your true issue is. You also edited your OP to explain you are talking about paying to win the dps meters. Yet you just got done telling me you were not talking about pay to win being bad at all. This isn't just a translation issue between english as a secondary or primary language. You just don't really seem to know what you want to argue and are trying to hard to not be wrong.

[Xauro]

Why claim something in the original post if you don't actually feel that is the case? You said you feel it is pay to win. It doesn't matter if you claimed otherwise in the original post because you said you feel it is in a later post. You also keep changing what your point is. Not pay to win, pay to win, relying on luck, and now pay to win dps meter.

There is no pay to win and pay to win dps meter. It is all pay to win. If you are making different levels of pay to win then the issue has nothing to do with being able to buy a "win". It has everything to do with whatever you don't like and using pay to win as a scapegoat instead of better articulating what your true issue is. You also edited your OP to explain you are talking about paying to win the dps meters. Yet you just got done telling me you were not talking about pay to win being bad at all. This isn't just a translation issue between english as a secondary or primary language. You just don't really seem to know what you want to argue and are trying to hard to not be wrong.

What my OP ASKING and what i feel is YES very diff things...that why i said it. And also i asked 2 things. So my answer i give is on both side.

If you dont understand now fine...maybe my english sucks to much. Cant make it more clear...lets Agree to disagee . Thank you dude!

[rhorle]

But thats not good gameplay based purely on luck. And the DIFF maybe not be that that big if you not like top 20 guild in the world. True i agree....but the fact that there is BOE that you can get by not palying the game and you dont even need a boost. Just go to the AH. IS stupid.

But you can also get BoP's by not playing the game. Because you can pay people gold to carry you. And luck is the entire design of WoW and any drop rate based game. Because you have to win a roll to get things which is luck based. Being able to buy a BoE isn't bad game play. I sold a 430 cloth BoE with a versatility corruption for 100k. I am now 100k richer because I was lucky. BoE's are not bad game play. Corruption on a BoE isn't bad game play.

It allows you to circumvent luck if you are unlucky. It also means you can get that exact corruption in the next loot lockout meaning you wasted your money. That is how RNG works and it is a core aspect of WoW.

- - - Updated - - -

What my OP ASKING and what i feel is YES very diff things...that why i said it. And also i asked 2 things. So my answer i give is on both side.

You literally edited your original post to clarify you are talking about paying to win dps meters. The same exact thing you keep stating is the same as how you feel.

[Daedius]

Blizz should've never let BoEs proc corruption...

[Xauro]

But you can also get BoP's by not playing the game. Because you can pay people gold to carry you. And luck is the entire design of WoW and any drop rate based game. Because you have to win a roll to get things which is luck based. Being able to buy a BoE isn't bad game play. I sold a 430 cloth BoE with a versatility corruption for 100k. I am now 100k richer because I was lucky. BoE's are not bad game play. Corruption on a BoE isn't bad game play.

It allows you to circumvent luck if you are unlucky. It also means you can get that exact corruption in the next loot lockout meaning you wasted your money. That is how RNG works and it is a core aspect of WoW.

- - - Updated - - -



You literally edited your original post to clarify you are talking about paying to win dps meters. The same exact thing you keep stating is the same as how you feel.

YEAH my QUESTION yes. When i ask P2W i mean by dps. So ppls know the question. Becuz p2w can be so much other things ....so i wanted to be clear that the question is about dps.

[rhorle]

YEAH my QUESTION yes. When i ask P2W i mean by dps. So ppls know the question. Becuz p2w can be so much other things ....so i wanted to be clear that the question is about dps.

Pay to Win is Pay to Win. For DPS or anything else it is still all pay to win. You either have it or you do not.

[Xauro]

Pay to Win is Pay to Win. For DPS or anything else it is still all pay to win. You either have it or you do not.

Dont get what you mean but ok. Im done with you lol. Dont mean it in a bad way just i already explained all. Cant make it more clear and if you dont get it ok... Cant do it better so agree to disagree Clearly some think like me in this thread and preach and others. Have nothing more to say!

[themaster24]

It's ignorant and short-sighted people like this that really help greedy companies like Blizzard ruin games.

Yes, you've always been able to buy BoEs on the AH, but in the past, i.e most of WoW's existence, gold wasn't (legally) purchasable via tokens. You couldn't (without cheating) just bust out your credit card and buy great gear. Now you can.

Now, your next argument is usually along the lines of "but but but you don't suddenly win the game if you have great gear, so how is that pay to WIN, when you're not winning the game".

Load of shit, that argument. Pay to win doesn't mean you instantly clock the game, instantly 1-shot the hardest bosses, instantly get all achievements, mounts, pets and women.

It simply means spending external currency to gain an in-game advantage. Look it up. It's not rocket science.

And PLEASE, for the love of all that's holy, don't say "but but but you can already buy or earn those items in other ways, so how is it an 'in-game advantage'?" It's an in-game advantage because you bought it without earning it. It's in-game power at the flick of a credit card that you would otherwise have had to play the game to achieve. That's kinda the point of MMOs, to put the effort in and earn things. Again, this isn't rocket science here, it's pretty simple shit.

WoW DOES have P2W mechanics in place at the moment. They certainly aren't as predatory as many other games' mechanics may be. I.e there aren't levels that are locked behind pay walls, or gear otherwise unobtainable that you can only get with $$ (cosmetics aside).

But anyone claiming that WoW is free of P2W mechanics nowadays is either deluded or outright stupid. It's that simple.

This is ultimately where I get frustrated, and I try to make sure is made clear. WoW, just like any other game that has a player run economy, is going to have P2W mechanics. I personally consider 3rd party sources to still be a method to P2W, as the mechanical structure is still there. Thus, there's no denying it exists. However, just like with MTX, not all things are created equal. So when I see people saying how WoW is a cash grab, or it's just another P2W game, because of the corruption BoE's, it comes off as very short sighted. Especially because I know someone that spent $50k+ on a garbage mobile game because he wanted to be the top ranked player in his region.

IMO, there really needs to be some new nomenclature developed as the waters have gotten increasingly muddied over the years. Someway of distinguishing something like what WoW and something like Rift/Clash of clans, or things like BL2 having skin packs that you can buy for $1 vs a game that has predatory, powerful MTX

[Adamas102]

Well i rather work 10h extra and know i get the items then sit wasting 100 of hours of my life and maybe not even get it. Thats winning for me. But go ahead. If you wanna waste 100 of hours more then someone else.

Good for you man. Im happy for you!

I think you missed the point. I'm not going to waste the money OR the time for some gear that's going to be replaced later this year. I'm not going for world first (and neither are you), so being top of the meters in some rando guild isn't something I find particularly impressive.

If someone spent 100 extra hours playing for the gear because they enjoyed doing so, I consider that FAR better than spending 10 extra hours of work (something I presume you don't enjoy doing) just to throw that money away on some hollow victory. At least at the end of the day that first player spent those same 10 hours having fun.

[Skylarking]

To a certain extent yeah it is pay to win but this is only something that would matter in the short lived competitive scene that is world first mythic raid clears.

Also I don't see it as a big deal anyway since the gear you buy becomes obsolete eventually whether it be from a new raid release or new expansion. It's not like other games where there is no power reset every few years.

[kaminaris]

This whole idea is stupid, you don't "win" by getting items, you win by reaching some hard goals such as mythic clear/arena rating.
And even so
gear, achivements, mounts are and were (in previous expansions) buyable by real money.

So yes WoW is and has always been Pay to win. Corruption/boe did not change anything.

[niztheundead87]

This is the millionth time we have seen this idiotic thread

[SirCowdog]

But you can also get BoP's by not playing the game. Because you can pay people gold to carry you. And luck is the entire design of WoW and any drop rate based game. Because you have to win a roll to get things which is luck based. Being able to buy a BoE isn't bad game play. I sold a 430 cloth BoE with a versatility corruption for 100k. I am now 100k richer because I was lucky. BoE's are not bad game play. Corruption on a BoE isn't bad game play.

It allows you to circumvent luck if you are unlucky. It also means you can get that exact corruption in the next loot lockout meaning you wasted your money. That is how RNG works and it is a core aspect of WoW.

I agree with almost all of that....except where the line is crossed and you can pay real world money to obtain those BOEs.

The problem is that there are two issues which are combining to make things worse: Corrupted BOEs which are providing too much power for how easy they are to obtain, and the gold-selling problem being addressed by the token.

I'm in full agreement with Blizzard taking control of the gold selling market and eliminating the black market aspect. I have no issues with that. However, I DO have a problem with Blizzard knowingly dropping such powerful BOEs into the market with the full knowledge that it would spike token trading.

[rhorle]

I'm in full agreement with Blizzard taking control of the gold selling market and eliminating the black market aspect. I have no issues with that. However, I DO have a problem with Blizzard knowingly dropping such powerful BOEs into the market with the full knowledge that it would spike token trading.

Except it hasn't spiked token trading. Just as the AH mount didn't spike token trading. Better check for the boogeyman under your bed next.

https://wowtoken.info/

[Seranthor]

This is the millionth time we have seen this idiotic thread

And if you hang around, you'll see it continue to pop up.