WOW- Now pay to win?

[Lolites]

Have you not been paying attention to the gaming industry at all?

i know, people are stupid and will waste money but why does that concern me?
in pvp corruptions are "weakened", and in pve do i really care that some Joe from Uganda cleared m+ or raid faster than me?

[Evereskalolpro]

He wears 4 corruption pieces with increase of mastery. He got a shit ton million dps through corruption. LOL.

He wears ZERO BoE tho so that's not the point.

[SkagenRora]

I wish they would start selling boxes with Loot in the actual store.

Like the Nya'lotha box we recently had from the Time walking event, or the 445 weapon box from emissary.

Would be good imo.

Just imagine the freedom of not being tied down to a weekly lockout or to the "Will it drop loot for me?" RnG.

These boxes always give loot, So if you buy 10, That's instantly 10 pieces of loot, Something that might've taken weeks to drop from actual raid

[Buliwyf the Omen]

P2Win in a Game with irrelevant, already skill-less PvP and non-challenging PvE content? Who the hell cares.

If this was any of the good expansions, I probably would.

[Relapses]

This is ultimately where I get frustrated, and I try to make sure is made clear. WoW, just like any other game that has a player run economy, is going to have P2W mechanics. I personally consider 3rd party sources to still be a method to P2W, as the mechanical structure is still there. Thus, there's no denying it exists. However, just like with MTX, not all things are created equal. So when I see people saying how WoW is a cash grab, or it's just another P2W game, because of the corruption BoE's, it comes off as very short sighted. Especially because I know someone that spent $50k+ on a garbage mobile game because he wanted to be the top ranked player in his region.

IMO, there really needs to be some new nomenclature developed as the waters have gotten increasingly muddied over the years. Someway of distinguishing something like what WoW and something like Rift/Clash of clans, or things like BL2 having skin packs that you can buy for $1 vs a game that has predatory, powerful MTX

So, you think it's P2W so it's P2W.

Gotcha dude. Keep that head-canon going. Back here in reality, until there's a cash shop run by Blizzard to buy current tier gear, the game is not P2W no matter how poorly you try to argue the game is somehow negatively impacted by the top .001% of players who actually convert WoW gold from tokens to buy Corrupted gear.

[Zantos]

I can't remember BoEs being objectively better than anything you could get inside the raid though

Me neither. But they still arnt better then anything you can get inside the raid so its all good.

As for the OP, No. Until the day comes that you can only obtain a real power advantage by buying it with real money, WoW is not P2W. Period. There is no middle ground. There is 1, key factor that determines if any game is pay to win. Its literally in its name. You Have to, no matter what, Pay to get the power needed to win. Not buying that means you will lose, regardless of skill.

You can declare wow p2w if they start selling gear, in their shop, that is far better then even mythic raiding gear and cannot be obtained in game unless you spend money.

[tmamass]

I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

Is this good gameplay or not? Pay to win?

you clearly dont understand what PAY TO WIN means.
buying gear from ah is NOT pay to win and have been in game since start, so there is nothing wrong with that.

[Raelbo]

I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

Do you have any warrants to back up your claim that those good items are being paid for by tokens though? Of course you don't.

Logic dictates that even if there are some people spending $$ on tokens, that represents only a very small portion of the people doing it. Most are buying these items with gold they made ingame.

Is this good gameplay or not?

Being able to make gold, and use it in exchange for goods and services from other players is part of the game. If the source of the gold was people paying Blizzard some $$ then I would argue that it is not good gameplay, but Blizzard doesn't actually sell you gold, they are simply facilitating a gold transaction between players. So the source of the gold continues to be through actual gameplay.

In short: Yes it's fine gameplay when you understand what's actually going on.

Pay to win?

Not at all. Pay to win is not about being able to spend $$ to get something in the game. It's about being required to spend $$ to get something in the game. A game is pay to win when choosing not to spend $$ puts you at a disadvantage. The way that tokens work, this is effectively impossible because if you consider gold as a measure of "winning" the simple fact is that people who rely on tokens for their gold are coming close to last.

Blizzard probly happy about it as they earn more $$$

Yes, Blizzard make more money from selling tokens. I am not sure why any rational person would see this as a bad thing. For one thing, every token exchange allows the person spending gold to save themselves real money. I would far rather have Blizzard making up their profits from tokens, bought by willing buyers who are happy to spend that cash, than say, a $5 increase to subscriptions across the board.

EDIT: What i mean by p2w is win the damage meter. More dps make dungeon/raid/pvp easyer. One with buyed BIS for real life money VS one with no corrupt or a bad one. Who would you put your money on? Who would you like to have in your raid/dungeon/arena.

VS the vast majority who got their gear from doing content.

Number of people who get gear from doing content themselves >> Number of people who get gear by spending gold they made on the AH >> Number of people who get gear by spending gold bought by tokens.

The problem with your argument is that you're assuming a prevalence of players who spend $$ on tokens to buy awesome gear that simply doesn't exist. Ergo, this is entirely a non-issue.

[KrvaviSale]

There will never be clear border line.
I know people wich even don't play game except occasionali, but have enough welth to buy all, I mean like mounts, boosts, BMAH stuff, achievements, all ingame stuff possible.
Still those people are exceptions, but they exist, and it shows that you could always buy content, one way or another.
Unfair expirience comes from difference in time invested to get amongst top geared players if theyre buying gear.
At some point becomes more practical to gain RL money and buy gear and gardenwalk trough gamecontent, at that point you play RL, and not a game - its end of gaming pleasure.

[Soon-TM]

Going by the mental gymnastics of some folks ITT, Blizz could very well be selling full Mythic tier sets in the shop, and it still wouldn't be P2W because U KENT WINZ ANYTHENG IN AN MMO LUL.

[Santti]

No.

While the corruption mechanic has elevated BoE's into something that's more desirable, it's no more or less P2W than it has been since forever. It's just the side-effect of tuning being bonkers.

Corruption is still only for the remainder of this expansion, and we are ditching it come the next expansion for something else. So even if we grant that WoW is P2W because of Corruption, it probably won't be in Shadowlands. I really doubt we are going to have such massive power-jumps early in the expansion, at any rate. Perhaps later in the next expansion, but I still wouldn't call this seasonal carousel P2W.

[Lolites]

where do i say that the OP BOE playing the game for you and basicly make you win?

in the post name, "WOW- Now pay to win?"

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Basically, yeah.

They get away from being labeled so by one purchasing power indirectly, though.

BoEs haven been around for ages, but one has to have their head deep into a company's butt if they are to argue that these items and the corruption attached to them don't give the players quite the crazy, unbalanced edge.
RNG that one can bypass with real money in any other game would be called P2W.

im runing m+ and cleared hc nyalotha, usualy topping the dps meters, on some bosses that need more movement i go lower (as im a dk) but i have never been out of top 5 dps in raid or worst dps in dung, yet i only have corruptions for +stats... so either those "amazing" corruptions dont give so much edge or almost nobody have them, so in either way it doesnt seem to have such huge impact as some people suggest...

i know people runing mythic world first race spent crapload of money on them, but for them even 0.1% increase makes a difference...

[Rinaul]

In the final raid tier with a year to go? You’d have to be mad to buy those boes if you weren’t in the world first race. Either ways don’t think it’s really p2w. Why would you want to spend that to get into pug raids/dungeons? Clearly if it’s to get into these runs like you suggested then you’re not running with friends or a guild so why would you care. Half the pugs won’t even spend a hundred gold on a flask for a pug run

[Daymanmb]

Its definitely p2w. Some corrupted gear is on the level of legendaries in Legion. This is brand new territory.

[Destinas]

So because it takes a ton of money it isn't pay to win?

You guys have some weird ass definitions of pay to win.

I don't really understand why you think it's anywhere near being "pay to win" with the amount needed vs time spent.

When I think "pay to win" I think of crappy mobile games or your every day EA shooter game where if you want some of the best guns easily, you simply buy them (or spend a few dollars on loot boxes). This is opposed to spending time to play the game to get whatever you want. Also, in those "pay to win" games, you usually only need guns or a couple pieces of gear/armor - nowhere near the amount needed to be considered "geared" in WoW.

In many games you can either spend a bit of money to get something good, or spend a ton of time, so players are more incentivized to spend the quick $10 for a gun. That's absolutely not the case in WoW, where it's easier to spend a few minutes in an assault or vision (or spend more time in a raid) to get good gear, instead of hundreds/thousands of dollars. It's just not the same situation, and the person spending thousands of dollars isn't "winning" more than the person that spent a couple hours in a raid.

It's a matter of ease. Sure, you can "win" by spending thousands of dollars to deck yourself out, but that's absolutely not the same category as paying $10 for a single gun. The token and AH are not designed to be the exact same thing as a "pay to win" game in the slightest. No one's spending thousands of dollars to get the best gear in WoW for one patch, so it's an imaginary "problem" posed by the OP as well.

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Im at 100h+ hours ingametime(stopped counting) trying to get a good corr. If i spend that time at work(working extra) i could EASY buy many BOE.

Well, you're welcome to do so, but it just sounds like you don't like the game anyway, so maybe it's time for a break. You could either spend thousands of dollars to get a few pieces of gear to feel better, or you could spend a fraction of that and get, y'know, Animal Crossing or something in a month and take a breather.

[bbr]

buying BoE’s has been a thing since
Classic so if that’s your metric then the game has always been P2W.

Not a full outfit though.
Just belts, from molten core.
But you could always buy your way into a raid,. guilds have been selling loot slots in raids since classic as well.

Lets not consider blue gear to be p2w because well,. there's just no real power there compared to most epics.

[Lei]

I love how people still defend it. If these boe-s were directly on the shop, I bet some would still stand by it. We are just a tiny step away from that.

[Raelbo]

Its definitely p2w. Some corrupted gear is on the level of legendaries in Legion. This is brand new territory.

It's definitely not p2w. It's not about the level of power of the gear but about whether paying $$ for it is a most effective means of acquisition. This is as it has always been.

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I love how people still defend it. If these boe-s were directly on the shop, I bet some would still stand by it. We are just a tiny step away from that.

I love how people make such ludicrously false equivalences - and then act all smugly. Being able to buy boe's directly from the shop would be a massively different proposition.

[Lolites]

Not a full outfit though.
Just belts, from molten core.
But you could always buy your way into a raid,. guilds have been selling loot slots in raids since classic as well.

Lets not consider blue gear to be p2w because well,. there's just no real power there compared to most epics.

well given some blue items were BIS pretty much till AQ or even naxx, i would say we should consider them...
and you cant buy full outfit of BOE items in retail either, i might be wrong but as a frost DK i think i can buy BOE ring and hands both with horrible stats, so they would have to have some incredibly powerfull corruption effect for me to consider sacrificing secondary stats AND other weaker corruptions from other items i already have...

[ercarp]

No, it's not pay-to-win.

It's RNG-to-win.