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  1. #101
    Visions are far more challenging, engaging, and fun.
    They offer far greater cosmetics and tittle. Sad part is the acquisition.

    Mage tower was a lazy and sloppy design at best. Sure some challenges were ok. But most were broken or to easy. The weapon appereances were realy not that big of a deal. Afther 1 week in that dumpster shit when it got released i never came back to it cause there was simply no reason for it. So for me a big fat no to mage tower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qobalt View Post
    No reason to compare two systems which have different purposes.
    Mage tower was a test of skill.
    Horrific visions are not. They are needed to upgrade your cloak to enable removing of more violet shit from your corrupted gear.
    Common, is lying realy the way to approach this? I 2 shotted it at release as balance druid which was my offspecc i barely played. That doesnt sound a test of skill to me,
    The tank version was bugged to high heavens for over 1 week!!
    Skill based, dont make me laugh

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    Did it on my weakest character before patch 7.3 hit, a shaman, with roots of shaladrassasil.
    A full fucking 4 months after it released? There is no way you weren't over 900, probably 915 by then. That's pathetic and a huge power boost.

    Literally all you had to do was make sure that the chick was cced before she got her wings, and to run from the melee lad.
    And dodge the plethora of crap that was constantly going out, and deal with things as phases started to overlap, such as valk lines trying to fuck you in melee as you attempted to burst down the shield.

    Mage tower was not hard, nice try though.
    Then I suppose absolutely no mythic fights are hard, either, because MTC had far more mechanics and demand for precision (more 1 shots) than anything mythic has ever offered. By your reasoning the hardest part of mythic would just be getting 19 other people on your level that don't fuck it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    And just so you know right, the mobs had shared hp, so you didn't actually have to dps her. You couldve sat on the caster and tunneled him outside of the enrages by the melee lad and her wings casts.
    Well, considering I did it the first week before any guides came out on exactly how to handle it, I suppose strategy was lost on me. And yes, they shared HP.... Kinda... but you could still chose which one you wanted to murder first out of the two weaker ones.

    The most difficult part for me was when she hit her 3rd DR and I had to break her shield. Also managing repentance on while ensuring I wasn't standing in any one of the things that would murder me, because repentance has a cast time.

  3. #103
    Why do people mention the Mage Tower being a one-off challenge as a bad thing ?

    I mean... I like being done with things, getting my reward and moving on to the next alt.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    A full fucking 4 months after it released? There is no way you weren't over 900, probably 915 by then. That's pathetic and a huge power boost.


    And dodge the plethora of crap that was constantly going out, and deal with things as phases started to overlap, such as valk lines trying to fuck you in melee as you attempted to burst down the shield.


    Then I suppose absolutely no mythic fights are hard, either, because MTC had far more mechanics and demand for precision (more 1 shots) than anything mythic has ever offered. By your reasoning the hardest part of mythic would just be getting 19 other people on your level that don't fuck it up.

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    Well, considering I did it the first week before any guides came out on exactly how to handle it, I suppose strategy was lost on me. And yes, they shared HP.... Kinda... but you could still chose which one you wanted to murder first out of the two weaker ones.

    The most difficult part for me was when she hit her 3rd DR and I had to break her shield. Also managing repentance on while ensuring I wasn't standing in any one of the things that would murder me, because repentance has a cast time.
    There were no oneshots in any mage tower, save the healer challenge when a character (you had to heal) died.
    4 months is pretty fine for a random alt, I'd think.

    Overlaps in mechanics? lol wait till you got leaden foot+ split personality on magister umbric. that's far more difficult than anything any of the dps challenges threw at you.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    There were no oneshots in any mage tower, save the healer challenge when a character (you had to heal) died.
    4 months is pretty fine for a random alt, I'd think.
    Dude, again, I'm telling you you are wrong. The valk lines would one shot. I died like 10 times to them. Dude would 1 shot me when berserking. In addition, there was also healing you had to do and fuck using WoG, so I had to hard-cast my heals. I also just used my actual raid gear, and didn't cherry pick leggos for what I thought would actually be more helpful (this is on me, but fuck the idea of trying to compensate specifically for a type of content by changing my gear or talents tbh).

    Overlaps in mechanics? lol wait till you got leaden foot+ split personality on magister umbric. that's far more difficult than anything any of the dps challenges threw at you.
    Again, you probably never had to deal with these overlaps because your fight times were probably a lot shorter. My fight took damn near 15 minutes, thanks to my maximum theoretical DPS being so low, thanks to actually doing the challenge when it was... challenging.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rappy28 View Post
    Why do people mention the Mage Tower being a one-off challenge as a bad thing ?

    I mean... I like being done with things, getting my reward and moving on to the next alt.
    Exactly my thoughts.

    I would have appreciated the ability to go back into a completed mage tower challenge, though, just to see the difference, or try to perfect my run, etc. However, having something that was finally one-and-done was a refreshing change.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Unless you are juggling a lot of alts, the visions really do not take that much of your time tbh. And if you are grinding them for gear and collectibles at the higher levels, they are no different than raids or dungeons; repeatable challenging content that is fairly rewarding on a form of weekly lockout.
    Any time I spend in visions is time I could spend doing something I actually enjoy.

    I'm basically done with them tbh, I'll get my cloak proc and fuck the rest off.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesahaettr View Post
    Any time I spend in visions is time I could spend doing something I actually enjoy.

    I'm basically done with them tbh, I'll get my cloak proc and fuck the rest off.
    Right there with you. I think I will do Rank 13-15 as I have 7 vessels sitting in my bag. After that I will do content I actually enjoy doing.
    Softbottom - Stormscale

  8. #108
    Nothing inspires more revisionist history than the Mage Tower.

    but anyways, these are hardly comparable. I wish visions had some more rewards, maybe spec or even class specific. In a way I'm glad they don't, as i don't wanna gear up 39 specs again (or whatever the number is...).

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Dude, again, I'm telling you you are wrong. The valk lines would one shot. I died like 10 times to them. Dude would 1 shot me when berserking. In addition, there was also healing you had to do and fuck using WoG, so I had to hard-cast my heals. I also just used my actual raid gear, and didn't cherry pick leggos for what I thought would actually be more helpful (this is on me, but fuck the idea of trying to compensate specifically for a type of content by changing my gear or talents tbh).


    Again, you probably never had to deal with these overlaps because your fight times were probably a lot shorter. My fight took damn near 15 minutes, thanks to my maximum theoretical DPS being so low, thanks to actually doing the challenge when it was... challenging.


    Exactly my thoughts.

    I would have appreciated the ability to go back into a completed mage tower challenge, though, just to see the difference, or try to perfect my run, etc. However, having something that was finally one-and-done was a refreshing change.
    I mean, I did it on shaman druid rogue paladin all in nh/tos gear and you could use a defensive, or just not get hit. The lines didn't kill you unless you were low.
    I linked you when my last character did it. If you're doing it as a paladin, you could 100% spec the 5hp finisher that healed with the talent that gave you a chance to get a free finisher and boom, healing. (justicar's vengeance and divine purpose)

    The overlaps happened regardless of gear, 1, 2, the valkyr was the 2nd easiest dps challenge. All of the overlaps were predictable, and none were anywhere as bad as what you could get on xylem or on the twins, for example.

    If you took 15 mins, you were doing something egregiously wrong, because in nh gear it took <10 mins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    Nothing inspires more revisionist history than the Mage Tower.

    but anyways, these are hardly comparable. I wish visions had some more rewards, maybe spec or even class specific. In a way I'm glad they don't, as i don't wanna gear up 39 specs again (or whatever the number is...).
    this kid im replying to above claims to have taken 15 minutes to do sigryn, lmao

    Ya okay

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    I mean, I did it on shaman druid rogue paladin all in nh/tos gear and you could use a defensive, or just not get hit. The lines didn't kill you unless you were low.
    "Use a defensive" that you could use once every 5 minutes. It wasn't physical dmg. You couldn't bop it, etc. You got one fuck up. "Just not get hit" yeah, that's how these things generally work. Easier said than done. Unless you're perfect and routinely full clear mythic. I don't usually full clear mythic, but I can undoubtedly say, even getting 2200 in arena in the distant past was easier than MTC. MTC at 894 was the hardest thing I've done in the game from a personal skill standpoint.

    Either you're arguing the entire game of wow just isn't even hard (lol mythic says otherwise) or you find different things that I find easy hard and visa versa.

    I linked you when my last character did it. If you're doing it as a paladin, you could 100% spec the 5hp finisher that healed with the talent that gave you a chance to get a free finisher and boom, healing. (justicar's vengeance and divine purpose)
    That's exactly what I did, but I couldn't sacrifice the hopo and DPS loss during shield breaking phases. It wasn't impossible, obviously I did it, but it was...get this... hard.

    All of the overlaps were predictable
    This is the entirety of the game's pve content. It's all scripted dances. The difference is MTC demanded near-perfection (a'la mythic) EXCEPT it was all solo, so either you were good enough or you weren't. Or you got gear and facerolled the most hindering part (maintaining DPS while doing mechanics).

    If you took 15 mins, you were doing something egregiously wrong, because in nh gear it took <10 mins.
    Honestly I don't remember at this point. It was a long ass time to stay focused. Way longer than basically any other boss in the game, which are all 5 minutes.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Softbottom View Post
    It was gated behind shitty currency that was tied to shitty wq's.. Did you even play legion?
    I got the skin on 3 characters, 2 of which I barely even played with during legion, I dont even had my artifact weapon for one of them before deciding to do the mage tower, and I had zero problem getting the currency needed for it.
    its an RPG, if you dont even want to play the game to do anything, fortnite and PuBG is there for you, go in, kill/die , get out, repeat.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    "Use a defensive" that you could use once every 5 minutes. It wasn't physical dmg. You couldn't bop it, etc. You got one fuck up. "Just not get hit" yeah, that's how these things generally work. Easier said than done. Unless you're perfect and routinely full clear mythic. I don't usually full clear mythic, but I can undoubtedly say, even getting 2200 in arena in the distant past was easier than MTC. MTC at 894 was the hardest thing I've done in the game from a personal skill standpoint.

    Either you're arguing the entire game of wow just isn't even hard (lol mythic says otherwise) or you find different things that I find easy hard and visa versa.


    That's exactly what I did, but I couldn't sacrifice the hopo and DPS loss during shield breaking phases. It wasn't impossible, obviously I did it, but it was...get this... hard.


    This is the entirety of the game's pve content. It's all scripted dances. The difference is MTC demanded near-perfection (a'la mythic) EXCEPT it was all solo, so either you were good enough or you weren't. Or you got gear and facerolled the most hindering part (maintaining DPS while doing mechanics).


    Honestly I don't remember at this point. It was a long ass time to stay focused. Way longer than basically any other boss in the game, which are all 5 minutes.
    dbm spelled out the encounter for you.
    not all classes are paladins

    I'm glad that you took your time and swam uphill and got it, I really am.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by LuminaL View Post
    I got the skin on 3 characters, 2 of which I barely even played with during legion, I dont even had my artifact weapon for one of them before deciding to do the mage tower, and I had zero problem getting the currency needed for it.
    its an RPG, if you dont even want to play the game to do anything, fortnite and PuBG is there for you, go in, kill/die , get out, repeat.
    I've played Everquest for 20 years and wow since launch; I am not new to MMO's and grinding. I do want to play the game; I just don't want to do things that are boring as fuck and artificially time-gated before I can actually play parts of the game I enjoy.
    Softbottom - Stormscale

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    - Seven different versions which means less repetitive
    - Not gated behind a crappy gated item, that you need to upgrade every week
    - Unique cool skin weapon rewards
    Visions have 32 different versions. If this is the metric to the degree of repetitiveness then visions win.

    Gated by how often the tower is up. You can't just login and do it anytime you want. Visions win again.

    Actual increase in power. Visions win again

    Looks like visions >>>>>>>>mage tower by our own parameters. Thanks Schmilblick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ornichi View Post
    I very well remember how all of my guild and friends hated that farm. Jesus, 90% of BfA was more fun than farming nethershards.
    It was another rng system. You could literally do one WQ and never have to farm them again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  15. #115
    Pretty bad comparison. Mage tower was just 1 boss, that was very unforgiving in the 'current' gear. And then it was triviliazed to the ground because it was a .2 patch content so the final patch of the expac destroyed the difficulty completely. It was a fun thing, but it's nowhere near close to the depth of visions.

    PS. I guess I have to agree that Mage Tower had a lot more content for people who played their alts on a relatively decent level, but for most of us, not so much.
    Last edited by Azerate; 2020-02-27 at 12:53 AM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Softbottom View Post
    It was gated behind shitty currency that was tied to shitty wq's.. Did you even play legion?
    I don't know mate I did all 34, 9 of them week 1 with 900-905ilvl and never actively farmed a single nether shard
    BFA Season 3


  17. #117
    The mage tower was much better in terms of offering content for alts. If you wanted to complete the whole collection it provided months of carrots on sticks to chase.

    Visions are a way better feature to engage with on a single character, though. Most of the experience of the mage tower was gearing up, with only maybe an hour or two of gameplay in the actual tower itself. Compare that to visions, which have not only encouraged me to start gearing my character again, but have provided hours of content in and of themselves. They're also way more dynamic and replayable than the mage tower bosses, and they provide incremental rewards and scaling difficulty rather than being a one and done.

    If visions rewarded something unique for each spec and didn't require weeks of cloak catch-up for your alts then they'd blow the mage tower out of the water, but as it stands I think the mage tower was a way better feature for altoholics, while visions are far superior for those who focus on a single character.

  18. #118
    I certainly felt more achievement from a 5mask clear than the stupid agatha scenario.

    Maybe mage tower is better if you wanna play 34 alts and get carried by a hilarious weapon proc which probably more than doubled your main stat, oh and lets not forget the tank challenge was not about tanking at all, it was basically another dps challenge, you can survive but if u don't have top notch dps get fucked. oh wait visions is the same for tanks now lol.

    Guess blizzard doesn't actually know what the hell tanking is.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Tells me all I need to know about what you consider "harder" and also probably when you cleared MTCs. Should have done them when you couldn't brute-force mechanics and had to perform the dances perfectly.

    Visions (from what I've seen) are only more difficult in that they have more damage and HP. Two of the dumbest, easiest ways to "increase" difficulty. Mechanics are the best way. Demanding more strenuous and precise control of a character while maintaining a minimum dmg output.
    So you agree that visions are harder but you are angry because they are harder in a different way than what you would prefer? That seems a bit weird. I guess getting one shot might be preferred over needing more dps for some, but can you imagine the tears if mobs just one shot you because you didn't move out of the way or interupt?

    No. Blizzard made the right decision here for what the content is suppose to be. The rewards are not suppose to be exclusive. You yourself have said visions are harder but they are the type of difficulty that most people can progress on week by week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    So you agree that visions are harder
    Harder how, exactly? Mechanical difficulty is the pinnacle of skill demands in wow, and the more skill an activity demands, the harder it is.

    hard is something that some people might never be able to do regardless of how much time they put into an activity. Dunking is hard because most people can't and won't ever be able to jump high enough to dunk. Those are the best types of difficulties. Things that demand a certain level of skill. Visions do not do that. MTC at the end of the xpac didn't really do that, either for the most part. But man the tears before that were so sweet to taste as people bemoaned their failures.


    but you are angry because they are harder in a different way than what you would prefer?
    Again, hard only comes in one flavor

    You yourself have said visions are harder
    I did no such thing.

    A boss that necessitates 20k dps to down or you die isn't hard in and of itself. It's a pass/fail of "do you have the proper gear." If your char sims at 20k and you're still missing, then yeah. L2P. But that bar is far lower than having to do actual mechanics while also needing to maintain a minimum dps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    Guess blizzard doesn't actually know what the hell tanking is.
    The prot pally tanking challenge was all about pulling and holding agro on enemies and also mitigating at proper times. Yes, DPS would allow you to get through things faster, as is the name of the game, but the important things were positioning adds, CCing properly, holding agro, and rotating defensives. Sounds like tanking to me.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2020-02-27 at 04:12 AM.

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