Mage Tower >>> Horrific Visions

[Amariw]

All i want out of this game is content where I walk in and get my ass kicked, but figure something out so that I get a bit further the next time, until I kill something and get a slight upgrade, then the next think kicks my ass for a while.

After a week I reset and start over, a bit more powerful from the upgrades, and get farther. 4 months later I’m owning everything.

You know, normal mmo progression. This whole limited attempts/grind easy content x so you can do a little bit of hard content y is just really annoying. I can’t sink my teeth into it and progress normally.

This guy gets it. Visions are fine, the gating is retarded to the point of ruining them.

[BeepBoo]

That was you admitting that visions are harder. I will take my apology in text form thank you.

Imagine it like this: flying is impossible. However, blizzard is giving you a feather every so often, so eventually you will be able to fly.

That's not something being hard. That's something being made possible by acquisition of things not in the form of skill, but in the form of tools. There's a difference.

The only type of difficulty I acknowledge is something that is ACTUALLY possible, provided you have the requisite skill.

[Kehego]

Imagine it like this: flying is impossible. However, blizzard is giving you a feather every so often, so eventually you will be able to fly.

That's not something being hard. That's something being made possible by acquisition of things not in the form of skill, but in the form of tools. There's a difference.

The only type of difficulty I acknowledge is something that is ACTUALLY possible, provided you have the requisite skill.

so i guess gearing and progress is out the window.

[BeepBoo]

so i guess gearing and progress is out the window.

As far as determining if something is "artificially" hard or not? Yeah. If they really wanted it to be a true demonstration of skill, they would use templates and lock you at a pre-determined level. One where it was possible, but demanded near perfection in the execution.

Again, MTC suffered from the same thing, but it wasn't designed from the ground up to be impossible until you got <x> corruption resistance or whatever. You could do it immediately when it was released, it was just far harder than it would be in the future (harder, not impossible). That doesn't make visions "harder" because something that is impossible is not hard.

Or... are you all saying molten core is the hardest content in the entire game, because you cannot possibly clear it at level 1?

[Kehego]

As far as determining if something is "artificially" hard or not? Yeah. If they really wanted it to be a true demonstration of skill, they would use templates and lock you at a pre-determined level. One where it was possible, but demanded near perfection in the execution.

Again, MTC suffered from the same thing, but it wasn't designed from the ground up to be impossible until you got <x> corruption resistance or whatever. You could do it immediately when it was released, it was just far harder than it would be in the future (harder, not impossible). That doesn't make visions "harder" because something that is impossible is not hard.

LOL TEMPLATES

okay you're high

templates will never ever ever ever ever happen in a gear based mmo for pve content.

[BeepBoo]

LOL TEMPLATES

okay you're high

templates will never ever ever ever ever happen in a gear based mmo for pve content.

I didn't think they would, I'm using your dumb idea that "hurr durr difficulty that is strictly due to a lack of character progression is valid difficulty."

Again, just because you can't do MC at lvl 1 doesn't make MC hard. Just because you can't do Visions with low/no corruption resistance at current gear levels does not make them hard.

[Softbottom]

Yeah, but you could farm dozens of attempts *daily*, much more if you wanted to, and the farming stayed efficent (sentinax, the best method, was possible to farm nigh endlessly).

DOZENS of attempts. Compare that to visions, which require multiple dailies AND weekly events for, at the most and after multiple buffs, 5-6 attempts. The artifact challenge grind was practically non existent in comparison, the vision grind is insultingly abusive.

I mean lets be honest; they both sucked. The other shitty part about the mage tower is it wasn't always up. If you had 50 attempts of nethershards it wouldn't matter if the tower wasn't up.

[Kehego]

I didn't think they would, I'm using your dumb idea that "hurr durr difficulty that is strictly due to a lack of character progression is valid difficulty."

Again, just because you can't do MC at lvl 1 doesn't make MC hard. Just because you can't do Visions with low/no corruption resistance at current gear levels does not make them hard.

You read what I typed and internalized that? Lmao okay

[BananaHandsB]

Apples are much better than oranges too.

[Sofo1]

Eventually they were when the expansion continued as everything usually does become easier with time. A lot of challenges in the mage tower were difficult when first released.

of course they were, just as horrific visions is when you have all the traits. The point i hope to get a cross is that people tend to praise the mage tower as something that was hard when in reality it were really easy when you had an above average knowledge of your class.

[AlmightyGerkin]

of course they were, just as horrific visions is when you have all the traits. The point i hope to get a cross is that people tend to praise the mage tower as something that was hard when in reality it were really easy when you had an above average knowledge of your class.

Very objective saying. Yes you had to have to average knowledge of your class which is true but also had to know what x y z add was doing and knowing when to interrupt and dodge.

[Ielenia]

And you are discussing rewards, so again, mage tower and challenge mode had better rewards

Challenge modes are meaningless to the discussion. We're talking about the comparison between mage tower and horrific visions. Rewards is part of that discussion, but that doesn't allow you to derail it by bringing Challenge Modes into the discussion just because CMs also had rewards.

Otherwise it also allows me to say nonsense like "the MT rewards were shit, since they forced you to do ranked PvP to get the 'complete reward'" or some such.

than the shit vision throws at you.

Again, purely subjective. The rewards from the Horrific Visions at least have the advantage of you not having to re-earn them in case you decide to play a new alt or make a new main.

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Very objective saying. Yes you had to have to average knowledge of your class which is true but also had to know what x y z add was doing and knowing when to interrupt and dodge.

Many (and I daresay most) of the mechanics became easier when you got late-normal/early heroic gear from Tomb of Sargeras. They became quite trivial and some could even be ignored or outright skipped when you had late-normal/early-heroic Antorus gear.

[Asrialol]

I went into mage tower once on each class for each spec. Great content that I could only do "once". Ugh.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Challenge modes are meaningless to the discussion. We're talking about the comparison between mage tower and horrific visions. Rewards is part of that discussion, but that doesn't allow you to derail it by bringing Challenge Modes into the discussion just because CMs also had rewards.

Otherwise it also allows me to say nonsense like "the MT rewards were shit, since they forced you to do ranked PvP to get the 'complete reward'" or some such.


Again, purely subjective. The rewards from the Horrific Visions at least have the advantage of you not having to re-earn them in case you decide to play a new alt or make a new main.

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Many (and I daresay most) of the mechanics became easier when you got late-normal/early heroic gear from Tomb of Sargeras. They became quite trivial and some could even be ignored or outright skipped when you had late-normal/early-heroic Antorus gear.

With normal/heroic antorus many classes could just ignore the add completely dps wise. Tank wise didn't matter as much since it was imo the most buggiest challenge of them all when 1 add ignored aggro completely or the infernal managed to punt you off but no animation was shown.

[czarek]

Dunno never done mage tower rofl (wow break during live moment). Visions are ok. Crappy item? Pretty decent cloak and hope for epic shit with crazy affix. I can agree with cool models were from mage tower. Visions can get shit for us in future. Models from mage stayed with you tille the end of the world.

[Kaver]

Why is it even a competition between HV and MT? Both were/are fun and that’s the most important thing. Now, it’s much more relevant to discuss how Blizzard could ever make shit content like the Warfronts.

[reauxmont]

Well yeah usually this is what happens. If you don't play you don't get. What else is new.

What do you mean by "if you don't play"? I played a lot, probably more than you, pushing mythic+ and raiding mythic, strangely I still had no Nethershards.