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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    you don't know what the sub numbers are. so how do you know they are abysmal?
    Financial reports. We don't know the correct amount but you can pretty much estimate it based on their revenues in comparison to past quarters. Especially after their statements about Classic and that it more than doubled WoW's active subs. Due to Classic Census we pretty much knew how many people were playing Classic during Summer and then it's just a math game.
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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    But the MMO market is in decline. And being sympathetic for a second, that actually makes it very hard for Blizzard to know what's working and what's not. No matter what they do, what they change, what they add, the subscriptions still fall. This is how we've ended up with Warfronts and Islands. Throwing shit at the wall, and trying to make it stick. But there's less and less wall, so it's hard to know how exactly how sticky the shit is.
    They've tried *everything* except restoring the old in-game server communities. They seem willing to die before trying it.

    I've got an entire list of revamps to totally turn this thing around in a positive direction again. They won't do it. The game needs a massive overhaul. I'd redo just about everything at this point. Its all gone in exactly the wrong direction.

  3. #183
    it's safe to say the mmo market has already died.

    it had a few years where it broke out of niche genre status, but now it's back there and not leaving it anytime soon.

    12m subs at the time of wotlk was an impressive feat, but today that's no longer that impressive even if you ignore mobile games.

    on the flipside, niche genres tend to have more dedicated fans so the income per user is probably quite a lot higher than for mainstream genres.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    They've tried *everything* except restoring the old in-game server communities. They seem willing to die before trying it.
    That you relentlessly and shamelessly view through near-opaque pink goggles. They weren't anywhere near as great as you imagine them. Besides, there's little to nothing Blizzard could do to re-create them anyway, so trying is a waste of time.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That you relentlessly and shamelessly view through near-opaque pink goggles. They weren't anywhere near as great as you imagine them. Besides, there's little to nothing Blizzard could do to re-create them anyway, so trying is a waste of time.
    I don't know why people get upset when i say they should try bringing back the old in-game server communities that thrived when WoW was at its apex. Very bizzare behavior.

  6. #186
    Reason I don't play GW2 or other mmos is that either the UI is dogshit in those games with little addons/wago.io stuff, or I just feel overwhelmed with learning a new mmo, not knowing if the endgame is gonna be any good at all.
    It feels like too much of an investment in a game to just find out if it's good or not.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    They've tried *everything* except restoring the old in-game server communities. They seem willing to die before trying it.
    There was no "old in-game server communities" that were made by Blizzard. Those were entirely created by the players. Blizzard did their part: they released Classic WoW. The rest is on the players.
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  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I don't know why people get upset when i say they should try bringing back the old in-game server communities that thrived when WoW was at its apex. Very bizzare behavior.
    Server communities were a thing of necessity, not of choice. If you were on a good server, great, but there were plenty where this was really not the dream world you are portraying it as. And the problem is, you didn't get a choice, because the server is the only one you had, unless you paid for a change.

    Now, you can actually choose which community you want to be a part of. You don't need to be forced into some arbitrary social construct with no escape.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    One thing to remember is that forum users, MMOC and Official, are irrelevantly small group of the customer base.

    Bowing to the loud, whiny minority isn't exactly the right way to go.
    Further, appeasing the loud whiny minority is exactly what has happened between TBC and now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    When was even the last time a big new mmo released that was successful?
    When WoW came out.
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  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Reason I don't play GW2 or other mmos is that either the UI is dogshit in those games with little addons/wago.io stuff, or I just feel overwhelmed with learning a new mmo, not knowing if the endgame is gonna be any good at all.
    It feels like too much of an investment in a game to just find out if it's good or not.
    You would've stopped playing the game eventually for other reasons anyway. GW2 has been going downhill in the past year.

    OT: MMOs certainly aren't as popular as they used to be, but the audience is still there. ESO and FFXIV are doing well and would've shut down years ago if there wasn't any demand.

  11. #191
    Wow is dying because of terrible game related decisions since Cata and an extreme failure to make the right adjustments for the ever changing MMO genre. And of course, incompetent leadership, devs and Activision add to the reason of the decline as well.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Yes. More things to do and more lively world killed wow.
    tbc and wotlk had none of those and were the 2 most succesful expansions, explain that

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Bumkin View Post
    tbc and wotlk had none of those and were the 2 most succesful expansions, explain that
    Playing MMOs was in back then, nowadays The genre as a whole doesnt have as many players as wow had during that Time.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Playing MMOs was in back then, nowadays The genre as a whole doesnt have as many players as wow had during that Time.
    Not to mention that a ton of players quit the game at that point and never made it to max level. The game had well over 100 million accounts (the only reported number) but peaked at 12 million players, meaning that 90% of players quit. The same stuff was happening during TBC and WotLK, but the game was still new. It lived on word of mouth and people willing to try this new phenomena - an MMO that was made for "normal people" instead of hardcore grinders. And a ton of them still dropped it, even in the supposed golden age of WoW.

    But no, it was cleary (That One Change) that ruined it - if only they kept releasing more Sunwells it would have a billion subscribers by now.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Not to mention that a ton of players quit the game at that point and never made it to max level. The game had well over 100 million accounts (the only reported number) but peaked at 12 million players, meaning that 90% of players quit. The same stuff was happening during TBC and WotLK, but the game was still new. It lived on word of mouth and people willing to try this new phenomena - an MMO that was made for "normal people" instead of hardcore grinders. And a ton of them still dropped it, even in the supposed golden age of WoW.

    But no, it was cleary (That One Change) that ruined it - if only they kept releasing more Sunwells it would have a billion subscribers by now.
    GC (say what you will about the dude, he's one of the more transparent people working in the game dev industry) wrote a pretty fascinating blog on this exact subject. And this is coming from a dude who has seen WoW's engagement and unsub figures, so I'd take his stance a lot more seriously than the thousands of buthurt players who feel like the LFG is the reason the game died.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Which has them making far more money then prior years.
    how does more money coming from wow, equal less subs?
    They have not said WoW is making far more money than in prior years.
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