"The MMO market is dying" is an awful excuse/argument

[czarek]

WoW is dying since 2007... And tbh MMO is massive multiplyaer online say it to LoL, Apex and Fortnite they are MMOs too :P WoW is MMO RPG and tbh is it still real RPG ? For me is more like action game with extended (no matter how messed) story line. Ok there is customization skills, itemization and ofc story and character build up system etc. OK we can say its still RPG. Is it dying? Not really. Maybe a lot similar games died just becuase WoW is so strong and there is no sense to copy paste. Maybe MMO RPGs died a bit because they consume a lot of time. Games like fortinie has short sessions and kick you into engame in a second :P

[Finear]

Not to mention modern WoW server tech is actually *worse* than the 2005 version because it is a virtual server not a dedicated physical server and they actually cannot handle large groups of people on the screen at the same time as well.

which matters how exactly? there is virtually no difference in performance between a dedicated physical server and equally powerful VM

When someone actually makes an MMO correctly, the genre will revive.

it won't, people nowadays are not interested in games that require a big time investment, and the social aspect is also mostly irrelevant because unlike 2004 there is shitloads of popular platforms like facebook (and yes i know FB was released in 2004 but it didn't get really popular until ~2010)

unless you are already interested in mmo's there is little chance that you will play one no matter how good it is

And tbh MMO is massive multiplyaer online say it to LoL, Apex and Fortnite they are MMOs too

they are not, there is nothing massive about LoL or even apex or Fortnite

if League is an MMO then so is Starcraft or CSGO which is obviously not true

not to mention that if we call every single game that is "big" MMO then what's the point of distinguishing games by genres in the 1st place?

[PenguinChan]

The MMO genre isn't dying, nor is it declining. It's absolute nonsense that people gauge an entire genre and sub-genres by almost WoW alone.

[Blackmist]

But the MMO market is in decline. And being sympathetic for a second, that actually makes it very hard for Blizzard to know what's working and what's not. No matter what they do, what they change, what they add, the subscriptions still fall. This is how we've ended up with Warfronts and Islands. Throwing shit at the wall, and trying to make it stick. But there's less and less wall, so it's hard to know how exactly how sticky the shit is.

[czarek]

which matters how exactly? there is virtually no difference in performance between a dedicated physical server and equally powerful VM




it won't, people nowadays are not interested in games that require a big time investment, and the social aspect is also mostly irrelevant because unlike 2004 there is shitloads of popular platforms like facebook (and yes i know FB was released in 2004 but it didn't get really popular until ~2010)

unless you are already interested in mmo's there is little chance that you will play one no matter how good it is



they are not, there is nothing massive about LoL or even apex or Fortnite

if League is an MMO then so is Starcraft or CSGO which is obviously not true

not to mention that if we call every single game that is "big" MMO then what's the point of distinguishing games by genres in the 1st place?

Ok lol. Go and google definition of MMOs dude than takes the audience.

[Astalnar]

What I find interesting about MMO market these days, back in the day, you had subscription model MMO games like World of Warcraft, and you had F2P MMOs who counted on the whales buying in-game items in order to be profitable. Nowadays WoW is still s subscription model MMO that caters to whales in order to suck them dry. And people applaud it.

Makes me think of sheep looking forward to getting shorn.

[Finear]

Ok lol. Go and google definition of MMOs dude than takes the audience.

A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG, or more commonly, MMO) is an online game with large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, on the same server.MMOs usually feature a huge, persistent open world, although some games differ.

so League - 10 players per map, no open or persistent world

not an mmo

and again, if lol was an mmo then so is starcraft or battlefield or csgo

and none of them are mmo

there is already a genre that league or apex fits, its moba or arts for one and battle royale for the latter

[KaPe]

Ok lol. Go and google definition of MMOs dude than takes the audience.

What's "lol" about it? Even at wikipedia, you can see it's about "hundreds/thousands of players on same server" and, more importantly, persistent world. You can, in theory, have FPS shooter with 128 players or so, but everything is contained to a single session and starts from scratch every time.

It's not about multiplayer or having large numbers of players total. If that was the case, chess would be MMO.

[MrLachyG]

Sadly, they don't. Hence the 1.5 mill active subs.

1.5 million eh? where'd you pull that number out of? cause Blizz aren't releasing sub numbers anymore

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Tell me, if MMOs are in such a decline, why...

a) FFXIV is getting bigger and better with each expansion

and

b) Classic was able to more than double (!) WoWs subscriber numbers during its release

In general I agree, the genre is declining but it can be stopped if you do something about it. Turning your game into a grind fest ARPG or whatever like Blizzard did in BfA is not helping anyone. It basically ruined retail. The recent sub numbers are abysmal and so is most stuff that Blizzard throws out at the moment.

you don't know what the sub numbers are. so how do you know they are abysmal?

[Nyel]

you don't know what the sub numbers are. so how do you know they are abysmal?

Financial reports. We don't know the correct amount but you can pretty much estimate it based on their revenues in comparison to past quarters. Especially after their statements about Classic and that it more than doubled WoW's active subs. Due to Classic Census we pretty much knew how many people were playing Classic during Summer and then it's just a math game.

[Kokolums]

But the MMO market is in decline. And being sympathetic for a second, that actually makes it very hard for Blizzard to know what's working and what's not. No matter what they do, what they change, what they add, the subscriptions still fall. This is how we've ended up with Warfronts and Islands. Throwing shit at the wall, and trying to make it stick. But there's less and less wall, so it's hard to know how exactly how sticky the shit is.

They've tried *everything* except restoring the old in-game server communities. They seem willing to die before trying it.

I've got an entire list of revamps to totally turn this thing around in a positive direction again. They won't do it. The game needs a massive overhaul. I'd redo just about everything at this point. Its all gone in exactly the wrong direction.

[Hellobolis]

it's safe to say the mmo market has already died.

it had a few years where it broke out of niche genre status, but now it's back there and not leaving it anytime soon.

12m subs at the time of wotlk was an impressive feat, but today that's no longer that impressive even if you ignore mobile games.

on the flipside, niche genres tend to have more dedicated fans so the income per user is probably quite a lot higher than for mainstream genres.

[huth]

They've tried *everything* except restoring the old in-game server communities. They seem willing to die before trying it.

That you relentlessly and shamelessly view through near-opaque pink goggles. They weren't anywhere near as great as you imagine them. Besides, there's little to nothing Blizzard could do to re-create them anyway, so trying is a waste of time.

[Kokolums]

That you relentlessly and shamelessly view through near-opaque pink goggles. They weren't anywhere near as great as you imagine them. Besides, there's little to nothing Blizzard could do to re-create them anyway, so trying is a waste of time.

I don't know why people get upset when i say they should try bringing back the old in-game server communities that thrived when WoW was at its apex. Very bizzare behavior.

[cface]

Reason I don't play GW2 or other mmos is that either the UI is dogshit in those games with little addons/wago.io stuff, or I just feel overwhelmed with learning a new mmo, not knowing if the endgame is gonna be any good at all.
It feels like too much of an investment in a game to just find out if it's good or not.

[Ielenia]

They've tried *everything* except restoring the old in-game server communities. They seem willing to die before trying it.

There was no "old in-game server communities" that were made by Blizzard. Those were entirely created by the players. Blizzard did their part: they released Classic WoW. The rest is on the players.

[Nevcairiel]

I don't know why people get upset when i say they should try bringing back the old in-game server communities that thrived when WoW was at its apex. Very bizzare behavior.

Server communities were a thing of necessity, not of choice. If you were on a good server, great, but there were plenty where this was really not the dream world you are portraying it as. And the problem is, you didn't get a choice, because the server is the only one you had, unless you paid for a change.

Now, you can actually choose which community you want to be a part of. You don't need to be forced into some arbitrary social construct with no escape.

[bullseyed]

One thing to remember is that forum users, MMOC and Official, are irrelevantly small group of the customer base.

Bowing to the loud, whiny minority isn't exactly the right way to go.

Further, appeasing the loud whiny minority is exactly what has happened between TBC and now.

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When was even the last time a big new mmo released that was successful?

When WoW came out.

[Jamie081]

Reason I don't play GW2 or other mmos is that either the UI is dogshit in those games with little addons/wago.io stuff, or I just feel overwhelmed with learning a new mmo, not knowing if the endgame is gonna be any good at all.
It feels like too much of an investment in a game to just find out if it's good or not.

You would've stopped playing the game eventually for other reasons anyway. GW2 has been going downhill in the past year.

OT: MMOs certainly aren't as popular as they used to be, but the audience is still there. ESO and FFXIV are doing well and would've shut down years ago if there wasn't any demand.

[Luxeley]

Wow is dying because of terrible game related decisions since Cata and an extreme failure to make the right adjustments for the ever changing MMO genre. And of course, incompetent leadership, devs and Activision add to the reason of the decline as well.