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  1. #1

    Just how many swords did he have?

    So I don't get why people say that Anduin Lothar only had one sword he wielded (canonically) and that being the great royal sword of stormwind yet there is another weapon in WoW called Askhandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood which has his initials on the hilt. Is this some sick joke or what, someone trying to mock him? Or was this also his sword? Is there any way to confirm whether or not Askhandi was one of his swords? How did it end up in Nefarian's lair if it was his sword? Ashkandi can't be the great royal sword of stormwind because that is in the possession of Turalyon. So this has to be another sword that he possessed with him which was probably looted from his body after he died and then maybe his sword was taken into blackrock mountain where it was altered heavily while keeping the hilt still intact? He was a dual wielder warrior too, so in my opinion, I think he had 2 swords not 1. So what do you all think, it's another sword that he possessed right? And was stolen from his body after death and taken into blackrock mountain by the orcs? Where it underwent a complete facelift? But the orcs decided to keep the hilt intact, so what we have today is the intact hilt with his initials on it. Lothar was part of the Brotherhood of the Horse during his young days, so maybe that is the exact same sword called Ashkandi. This has been bothering me for 15 years because Blizzard lore writers never confirmed whether Ashkandi was one of his swords or not.
    Last edited by gurutikka; 2020-02-26 at 07:19 PM.

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    So I don't get why people say that Anduin Lothar only had one sword he wielded (canonically) and that being the great royal sword of stormwind yet there is another weapon in WoW called Askhandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood which has his initials on the hilt. Is this some sick joke or what, someone trying to mock him? Or was this also his sword? Is there any way to confirm whether or not Askhandi was one of his swords? How did it end up in Nefarian's lair if it was his sword? Ashkandi can't be the great royal sword of stormwind because that is in the possession of Turalyon. So this has to be another sword that he possessed with him which was probably looted from his body after he died and then maybe his sword was taken into blackrock mountain where it was altered heavily while keeping the hilt still intact? He was a dual wielder warrior too, so in my opinion, I think he had 2 swords not 1.
    1. Ashkhandi being his sword is not confirmed as i remember, but it may be
    2. it would mean he had 2 swords, which is weird.
    3. nefarian would have it, cause this battle happened at blackrock mountain, so he likely got it from the battlefield.
    4. another theory is its the sword that was used to kill anduin lothar, which is why its inscirbed on it, like how some soldiers used to/do put slashes on their weapons (sword/guns/etc) to mark a kill. but someone like anduin lothar would get his intials that is so huge.
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  3. #3
    1. Yeah that bothers me so much they didn't confirm it.

    2. I don't think it's weird because Lothar was a warrior, so maybe he dual wielded too?

    3. I agree with you there.

    4. No sword killed Lothar. He was in a duel with Orgrim and that's how he died. It was Doomhammer which I believe was a mace or axe that killed him. It is said that the power of the Doomhammer was so great that it shattered Lothar's sword into 2 pieces or several pieces. The shattered sword we know as is the great royal sword of stormwind which Turalyon possesses currently. As far as I know, Orgrim didn't use a sword to kill Lothar. He used the Doomhammer.
    Last edited by gurutikka; 2020-02-26 at 07:35 PM.

  4. #4
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. Ashkhandi being his sword is not confirmed as i remember, but it may be
    2. it would mean he had 2 swords, which is weird.
    3. nefarian would have it, cause this battle happened at blackrock mountain, so he likely got it from the battlefield.
    4. another theory is its the sword that was used to kill anduin lothar, which is why its inscirbed on it, like how some soldiers used to/do put slashes on their weapons (sword/guns/etc) to mark a kill. but someone like anduin lothar would get his intials that is so huge.
    It's Anduin Lothar's sword, thus the initials on the hilt, and the "of the Brotherhood" refers to The Brotherhood of the Horse, the name of the order of Stormwind's knights before the First War.

    My guess is that it's an heirloom sword of that order of knights rather than of the royal bloodline.
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2020-02-26 at 07:36 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    It's Anduin Lothar's sword, thus the initials on the hilt, and the "of the Brotherhood" refers to The Brotherhood of the Horse, the name of the order of Stormwind's knights before the First War.
    And yet it can't be, because Lothar's sword is in Turalyon's posession, and Lothar was never once stated to use two swords.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    And yet it can't be, because Lothar's sword is in Turalyon's posession.
    To clarify, Lothar must've been in the possession of both the royal sword of SW and this additional heirloom of the knightly order.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  7. #7
    It could be possible that Ashkandi was wielded by a Blackrock orc who witnessed Lothar, admired him, and initialed those letters in the hilt as some kind of reverence, reminder, respect, or wish to kill. A Blackrock sword making its way up to Nefarian would be far more likely, what with Blackrock Spire, home to many Blackrock, in the same mountain.

  8. #8
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    Lothar probably used more than one side throughout his life - swords aren't really known for their endurance, often breaking or shattering after considerable use. Ashkandi was probably an older sword he wielded during his days as a member of the Brotherhood of the Horse, and likely retired at some point (and perhaps ceremonially reforged) as Lothar ascended the ranks to become the Champion of Stormwind, gaining the Royal Sword of Stormwind in the process.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-02-26 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Mea culpa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    It could be possible that Ashkandi was wielded by a Blackrock orc who witnessed Lothar, admired him, and initialed those letters in the hilt as some kind of reverence, reminder, respect, or wish to kill. A Blackrock sword making its way up to Nefarian would be far more likely, what with Blackrock Spire, home to many Blackrock, in the same mountain.
    It wouldn't be the Greatsword of the Brotherhood then.

    More likely, considering the sword has a red dragonflight motif, is that it's connected somehow to Vael (perhaps a reforging). It could have been in his possession when he entered BWL, and was taken when he was subdued and corrupted by Nefarian.

    One possibility that comes to mind is that the blade may not have been taken by black dragons or their servants at all. There’s a famous work of art by Chris Metzen of Turalyon visiting Lothar’s grave, which of course means that Turalyon knew where it was. Lothar died before the rebuilding of Stormwind, but there’s at least one marker in the Stormwind cemetery that seems likely to be his resting place — it’s a larged domed tomb with a large stone block in the center as a monument, and it’s next to Tiffin Wrynn’s grave, so it’s in a place of honor. It’s at least feasible that someone moved his remains from wherever they were originally kept — probably in Lordaeron — to place them in Stormwind once it was reconstructed.

    The question then becomes, was Lothar interred with his greatsword? If so, is it still there? After all, Onyxia was present in Stormwind for years, and the red dragons knew this. After all, they’d infiltrated Blackrock Mountain. Vaelan, aka Vaelastraz, was working to give mortal heroes the Seal of Ascension and allow them to confront Nefarian at the top of Upper Blackrock Spire, where the Blackwing Lair resided. It stands to reason that the red dragons may have sought an edge against Rend and Maim Blackhand and their Dark Horde, and what better edge could you find than a weapon wielded by Anduin Lothar — especially if they knew the black dragons wanted it? It would explain how Nefarian got his hands on it after he and Vael fought. Nefarian took the sword from his defeated foe before he could give it to those same mortals he aided during the fight against Rend Blackhand.
    - From an article written in 2018.


    Turalyon at Lothar's grave (artwork referred to by article)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    It was Doomhammer which I believe was a mace or axe that killed him.
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    Doomhammer
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    mace or axe
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  11. #11
    People have a capacity to own more than one of something. Especially since there are things like ceremonial swords (and putting aside the aesthetics of WoW weaponry as a whole for a moment, Ashkandi looks rather impractical).


    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Lothar probably used more than one side throughout his life - swords aren't really known for their endurance, often breaking or shattering after considerable use. Ashkandi was probably an older sword he wielded during his days as a member of the Brotherhood of the Horde, and likely retired at some point (and perhaps ceremonially reforged) as Lothar ascended the ranks to become the Champion of Stormwind, gaining the Royal Sword of Stormwind in the process.
    Lothar being a double agent confirmed.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2020-02-26 at 09:10 PM.
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  12. #12
    Could also just be that Ashkandi was from a time period when Blizzard thought it was cool and didn't plan to bring Lothar's sword back proper.

    See: Atiesh in Classic.

  13. #13
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    He has one sword but they were just adding in loot they thought was cool but doesn’t actually exist there in the lore. Look at the ashbringer it drops in classic but lore rise was already out of naxx before it was raided by the heros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Could also just be that Ashkandi was from a time period when Blizzard thought it was cool and didn't plan to bring Lothar's sword back proper.

    See: Atiesh in Classic.
    This guy gets it.

  14. #14
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    He has one sword but they were just adding in loot they thought was cool but doesn’t actually exist there in the lore. Look at the ashbringer it drops in classic but lore rise was already out of naxx before it was raided by the heros.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This guy gets it.
    I would agree and say that no loot drops in Vanilla are likely to have any real impactful meaning. Even in BC, since Gorehowl drops off Malchazzar which makes no sense.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    I would agree and say that no loot drops in Vanilla are likely to have any real impactful meaning. Even in BC, since Gorehowl drops off Malchazzar which makes no sense.
    I've seen people argue that this Gorehowl was evidence that the "Legion spans all realities" from WoD was planned all the way back to TBC (vide Malchezaar's dialogue) and he got that axe from a different universe's Grom.
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    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  16. #16
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    I would agree and say that no loot drops in Vanilla are likely to have any real impactful meaning. Even in BC, since Gorehowl drops off Malchazzar which makes no sense.
    We know thunder fury shows up but other then that ya every thing else is likely just there to be cool.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    I've seen people argue that this Gorehowl was evidence that the "Legion spans all realities" from WoD was planned all the way back to TBC (vide Malchezaar's dialogue) and he got that axe from a different universe's Grom.
    That seems like some crazy post-rationalization to me but I guess it's possible.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    That seems like some crazy post-rationalization to me but I guess it's possible.
    I'm by no means saying I subscribe to that idea. Personally I'd say it's far fetched as hell. Just throwing it around since your post reminded me of it.
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    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    It could be possible that Ashkandi was wielded by a Blackrock orc who witnessed Lothar, admired him, and initialed those letters in the hilt as some kind of reverence, reminder, respect, or wish to kill. A Blackrock sword making its way up to Nefarian would be far more likely, what with Blackrock Spire, home to many Blackrock, in the same mountain.
    Also the actual sword itself does not look like something anduin lothar would use.

    Anduin lothar, you can see him using the sword that was shattered, and is now used by turylon

    and here is the blade with his initials... does not look like something he would use right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    I've seen people argue that this Gorehowl was evidence that the "Legion spans all realities" from WoD was planned all the way back to TBC (vide Malchezaar's dialogue) and he got that axe from a different universe's Grom.
    This may not have been planned back in TBC, when they first added it, but it is evident by cata that is what was planned, as they give garrosh gorehowl, even though prior he was using the most bullshit random axes before hand. As in cata when thrall passes warcheif off to Garrosh, he does so by giving him gorehowl, which is odd cause yeah, there was the gorehowl in kharazhan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    We know thunder fury shows up but other then that ya every thing else is likely just there to be cool.
    nah the legendaries are cannonized.
    Thunderufry it lost by the adventurer who got it and died.
    and the ones who used aetish returned it to its rightful resting place.
    those are the only legendaries we know what happens to them.
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  20. #20

    Honestly, design element wise, Turalyon's weapon is not that far off from Ashkandi. Just scaled down to be a bit more reasonable in size, not red, and the dragons on the guards are lions instead. The two curved animals on the guard, the central "eye" section of the guard and the fact that it has runes are still the same.

    Does feel like they made Turalyon's sword with Ashkandi in mind a little.

    Cataclysm Ashkandi reminds me a little less of Turalyon's sword.

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