View Poll Results: To which degree can Arthas be held accountable for his Crime as a Death Knight/Lich K

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  • He can be held fully Accountable

    63 42.00%
  • He can be held partially accountable/Frostmournes influence is a mitigating factor for his guilt

    69 46.00%
  • He can't be held accountable/He could be considered legally insane

    18 12.00%
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  1. #41
    Arthas did everything right until his soul got consumed by frostmourn.
    The purge of stratholm was the only possibility. Pursuing malganis was the only way something like that could not happen again on his lands.
    The fact that Uther prefered an army of undead destroying lordaeron than doing the necessary dirty work, then managed to convince a senile king to betray his son so he could ger back his status. Well that's on them.
    On the other hand arthas did everything until the end to save his people. Even his last free words were for them.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    He started spiraling down before he picked up the blade. He was just tipping over when he picked it up. In the end its still the man carrying the decisions.

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    Ah here comes the Arthas apologism squad. Didn't take long.

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    Bullfrog. He just didn't even try thinking of any other option. He slaughtered an entire city just because he wanted to. Not because he knew there was no other choice. His reaction towards Uther and Jaina about it speaks volumes.
    What would you have done to Stratholme then? Quarantine it? With how virulent the plague was? Stop joking.

  3. #43
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    If Kael'thas ended up in Revendreth; then there's a chance Arthas ends up there too instead of the Maw.

    then there the two blonde long hair prince'thasses would fight to the death for a crumb of Jaina's coochie

  4. #44
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    If Kael'thas ended up in Revendreth; then there's a chance Arthas ends up there too instead of the Maw.

    then there the two blonde long hair prince'thasses would fight to the death for a crumb of Jaina's coochie
    Sylvanas saw him in Edge of Night, which is confirmed to have taken place in the Maw. But I wouldn't mind seeing Arthas defy that decision and try to prove to himself and to the Arbiter that nobody is beyond redemption. It'd play nicely with the overall message of Warcraft, about mortals being the only ones who can decide their fate, not gods or prophecies.

    Plus it'd be so funny if Arthas ended up killing Sylvanas again, but this time to save the Shadowlands.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    Arthas chose to purge Stratholme. He chose to pursue Mal'ganis to Northrend. He chose to burn the ships and frame the mercenaries. He chose to pick-up Frostmourne rather than use the Light to heal his friend and retreat. He chose not to heed the warnings that were given to him. Frostmourne consumed his soul once he touched it and everything beyond that was not under his agency, because agency requires will to be such, so nothing beyond that is "Arthas".

    But the fact things reached that point? That was all his choice and the whole point is that characters around him cared enough to warn him at every turn and he continued regardless. Arthas' greatest crime and weakness was Pride.
    I dont understand one thing thou, why is purging strathholm is considered evil by almost everyone ?

    what other options did arthas have? he could ignore it, wait until everyone is turned into an enemy soldier and then attacked, or could go and save people, which by no means he could tell if someone is infected or someone is clean, which could result in spreading the plague to other cities as well.
    or he could do what he did, and with some acceptable casualties purge the city, prevent it from turning into an army for the enemy.

    I understand the act of killing innocent people is evil, but what other, better option did he have beside doing a necessary evil everyone were too afraid to do ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Plus it'd be so funny if Arthas ended up killing Sylvanas again, but this time to save the Shadowlands.
    imagine the ragefest by sylvanas fans if/when that happens!

    tbh, I would LOVE to see such thing happen, not because I dont like sylvanas or anything, because its poetic!

  6. #46
    Pit Lord Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    What do you mean by can? He's held accountable by getting killed by us and facing eternal torment in Shadowlands' worst plane. Even though said torment is bound to end next expansion. Blizzard loves bringing their signature chars back.

  7. #47
    What more can you do to him? He's dead.
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  8. #48
    Pit Lord Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Plus it'd be so funny if Arthas ended up killing Sylvanas again, but this time to save the Shadowlands.
    Sweet irony. For her to end in the same way she died the first time. Fitting end for her, though I want Tyrande to destroy her. Still think she's gonna survive... Nathanos might die though.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by LuminaL View Post
    I dont understand one thing thou, why is purging strathholm is considered evil by almost everyone ?

    what other options did arthas have? he could ignore it, wait until everyone is turned into an enemy soldier and then attacked, or could go and save people, which by no means he could tell if someone is infected or someone is clean, which could result in spreading the plague to other cities as well.
    or he could do what he did, and with some acceptable casualties purge the city, prevent it from turning into an army for the enemy.

    I understand the act of killing innocent people is evil, but what other, better option did he have beside doing a necessary evil everyone were too afraid to do ?

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    imagine the ragefest by sylvanas fans if/when that happens!

    tbh, I would LOVE to see such thing happen, not because I dont like sylvanas or anything, because its poetic!
    Nothing to do with her fans. But if blizzard cares about being woke in the public eye they will certainly not do that. There is a very ugly abuse and rape dynamic between Arthas and Sylvanas. Championing Arthas as the one to end her deeds when he was the major cause of why she ended up screwed in the head. Is. Well. Put 2 and 2 together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Sylvanas saw him in Edge of Night, which is confirmed to have taken place in the Maw. But I wouldn't mind seeing Arthas defy that decision and try to prove to himself and to the Arbiter that nobody is beyond redemption. It'd play nicely with the overall message of Warcraft, about mortals being the only ones who can decide their fate, not gods or prophecies.

    Plus it'd be so funny if Arthas ended up killing Sylvanas again, but this time to save the Shadowlands.
    He doesen't deserve redemption. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    What would you have done to Stratholme then? Quarantine it? With how virulent the plague was? Stop joking.
    Yes. Exactly that. Hold the city under lock. Send in priest and mage teams. Get non infected citizens out. And work with the Kirin Tor in search of a cure. Easy as that. It's better then a mindless slaughter.

  10. #50
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    Sweet irony. For her to end in the same way she died the first time. Fitting end for her, though I want Tyrande to destroy her. Still think she's gonna survive... Nathanos might die though.
    True, true, it'd be cool if she died ala Archimonde too. There's just so many sweet ways Sylvanas could die.... at this point, Blizzard is only spoilt for choice
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  11. #51
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    I think the title says everything. Do you think that Arthas can be possibly held accountable for his crimes or that his condition after picking up Forstmourne be considered comparable with legal insanity?.
    Guns don't kill people. People kill people using guns.
    Same way, Frostmourne didn't kill people, Arthas killed people using Frostmourne.

    Besides, Arthas had more than enough live on his conscious before he picked up Frostmourne, to have him tried, convicted and executed many many times over.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  12. #52
    I'm not voting, because I think another option is far more likely;

    He'll return as an "anti-hero" who probably helps us (as players and the factions as a whole), but is never accepted back into their ranks. Whether he remains in the Shadowlands, or comes back to Azeroth somehow, I think he will always be viewed as an outsider and as a threat, having done enough that the factions don't outright kill him.

    I'd almost wonder if he would remain behind as a new "Jailer", but I think that would be too similar to Illidan's fate. So I definitely see him returning in some capacity. Maybe as a willing prisoner of the Ebon Blade, keeping the Scourge in check while the Ebon Blade functions as a "clean-up crew". Or maybe he somehow partners with his sister, Calia Menethil, or "redeem" the remnants of the Scourge?

  13. #53
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    This is what "damning your soul" means, people. It's the conscious choice he made.
    The fact that his good side was no longer in control after he picked up Frostmourne is irrelevant.

    Muradin: Hold, lad. There's an inscription on the dais. It's a warning. It says, "Whomsoever takes up this blade shall wield power eternal. Just as the blade rends flesh, so must power scar the spirit." Oh, I should've known. The blade is cursed! Let's get the hell out of here!
    Arthas: I would gladly bear any curse to save my homeland.
    Muradin: Leave it be, Arthas. Forget this business and lead your men home.
    Arthas: Damn the men! Nothing shall prevent me from having my revenge, old friend. Not even you.
    Arthas: Now, I call out to the spirits of this place. I will give anything or pay any price, if only you will help me save my people.
    Arthas has selected Need for: [Frostmourne]
    Muradin has selected Need for: [Frostmourne]
    Need roll - 99 for [Frostmourne] by Arthas
    Need roll - 97 for [Frostmourne] by Muradin
    Arthas won: [Frostmourne]
    Arthas receives loot: [Frostmourne]
    Muradin: Augh!
    Last edited by Chonar; 2020-02-27 at 01:52 PM.
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  14. #54
    For those people arguing that a quarantine would have worked when dealing with the plague in Stratholme, let's not forget that Mal'ganis was also in the city, personally overseeing the plague, and collecting those who had turned.

    His main goal was to convince Arthas to travel to Northrend and take up Frostmourne. I'm certain that even if a quarantine was used, the dreadlord would have found some way to torment the prince, and/or make him do some reprehensible act.

    Of course, though, that's all speculation.

  15. #55
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Well really when you look at the Culling from an objective perspective, no one actually told Arthas that his solution wouldn't have worked or would've failed in stopping the spread of undeath. Because Arthas' strategy, from a logical perspective, was flawless. Jaina and Uther as a matter of fact didn't disagree with Arthas because his solution was stupid, but because it was morally grey.

    That's the problem with Arthas, and with so many well-intentioned extremists. Logically, they are right. Stratholme was doomed, there was no other way, it was in Lordaeron's best interests to stop the rise of a new undead army. Yet at the same time, on a moral level, it's not easy to butcher civilians in their homes. Arthas himself knew this. He knew that what he was about to do was an atrocity, so much so that when he sees his father's statue at the gates of Stratholme, he asks forgiveness for what he must do, and in an official art he's also shown crying over the innocent blood he has on his hands.

    And that's why the Culling of Stratholme, unlike the Burning of Teldrassil, was an actual morally grey event.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-02-27 at 02:29 PM.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Krek01 View Post
    For those people arguing that a quarantine would have worked when dealing with the plague in Stratholme, let's not forget that Mal'ganis was also in the city, personally overseeing the plague, and collecting those who had turned.

    His main goal was to convince Arthas to travel to Northrend and take up Frostmourne. I'm certain that even if a quarantine was used, the dreadlord would have found some way to torment the prince, and/or make him do some reprehensible act.

    Of course, though, that's all speculation.
    That's a good point. Mal'ganis would have likely teleported outside and started attacking whatever Dalaran mages showed up as well as Uther and Jaina while sabotaging their efforts, and taunting Arthas. It's very likely he would have even killed Uther or Jaina to get Arthas to do what he needed him to do.

  17. #57
    Arthas did everything right until he picked up Frostmourne. Then it went downhill from there.

    His deeds as a deathknight are inexcusable.

  18. #58
    I am Murloc! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Arthas was a weak minded man but he knew what he was doing and had many chances to stop but because he was weak minded he seen the path he took as a fucking short cut. He was in control the whole time with the exception of the helm and frostmourne egging his weak ass brain along, he is not a tragic but he is a imbecile.
    Last edited by Dellis0991; 2020-02-27 at 02:38 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Well really when you look at the Culling from an objective perspective, no one actually told Arthas that his solution wouldn't have worked or would've failed in stopping the spread of undeath. Because Arthas' strategy, from a logical perspective, was flawless. Jaina and Uther as a matter of fact didn't disagree with Arthas because his solution was stupid, but because it was morally grey.

    That's the problem with Arthas, and with so many well-intentioned extremists. Logically, they are right. Stratholme was doomed, there was no other way, it was in Lordaeron's best interests to stop the rise of a new undead army. Yet at the same time, on a moral level, it's not easy to butcher civilians in their homes. Arthas himself knew this. He knew that what he was about to do was an atrocity, so much so that when he sees his father's statue at the gates of Stratholme, he asks forgiveness for what he must do, and in an official art he's also shown crying over the innocent blood he has on his hands.

    And that's why the Culling of Stratholme, unlike the Burning of Teldrassil, was an actual morally grey event.
    The thing is, what was he hoping to accomplish with it? He already knew they were going to be raised as undead once they died. So killing them wasn't exactly going to save them from being raised and he knew it, he had seen it before.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    My greatest hope was that somebody on this forum would put the pieces together (the decision to make Pride the real final boss of MoP was a visionary stroke of genius). You, kind soul, exceeded the greatest expectations.

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