Can Arthas be held accountable for his crimes?

[LuminaL]

Arthas chose to purge Stratholme. He chose to pursue Mal'ganis to Northrend. He chose to burn the ships and frame the mercenaries. He chose to pick-up Frostmourne rather than use the Light to heal his friend and retreat. He chose not to heed the warnings that were given to him. Frostmourne consumed his soul once he touched it and everything beyond that was not under his agency, because agency requires will to be such, so nothing beyond that is "Arthas".

But the fact things reached that point? That was all his choice and the whole point is that characters around him cared enough to warn him at every turn and he continued regardless. Arthas' greatest crime and weakness was Pride.

I dont understand one thing thou, why is purging strathholm is considered evil by almost everyone ?

what other options did arthas have? he could ignore it, wait until everyone is turned into an enemy soldier and then attacked, or could go and save people, which by no means he could tell if someone is infected or someone is clean, which could result in spreading the plague to other cities as well.
or he could do what he did, and with some acceptable casualties purge the city, prevent it from turning into an army for the enemy.

I understand the act of killing innocent people is evil, but what other, better option did he have beside doing a necessary evil everyone were too afraid to do ?

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Plus it'd be so funny if Arthas ended up killing Sylvanas again, but this time to save the Shadowlands.

imagine the ragefest by sylvanas fans if/when that happens!

tbh, I would LOVE to see such thing happen, not because I dont like sylvanas or anything, because its poetic!

[Amaterasu65]

What do you mean by can? He's held accountable by getting killed by us and facing eternal torment in Shadowlands' worst plane. Even though said torment is bound to end next expansion. Blizzard loves bringing their signature chars back.

[Vakna]

What more can you do to him? He's dead.

[Amaterasu65]

Plus it'd be so funny if Arthas ended up killing Sylvanas again, but this time to save the Shadowlands.

Sweet irony. For her to end in the same way she died the first time. Fitting end for her, though I want Tyrande to destroy her. Still think she's gonna survive... Nathanos might die though.

[Grazrug]

I dont understand one thing thou, why is purging strathholm is considered evil by almost everyone ?

what other options did arthas have? he could ignore it, wait until everyone is turned into an enemy soldier and then attacked, or could go and save people, which by no means he could tell if someone is infected or someone is clean, which could result in spreading the plague to other cities as well.
or he could do what he did, and with some acceptable casualties purge the city, prevent it from turning into an army for the enemy.

I understand the act of killing innocent people is evil, but what other, better option did he have beside doing a necessary evil everyone were too afraid to do ?

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imagine the ragefest by sylvanas fans if/when that happens!

tbh, I would LOVE to see such thing happen, not because I dont like sylvanas or anything, because its poetic!

Nothing to do with her fans. But if blizzard cares about being woke in the public eye they will certainly not do that. There is a very ugly abuse and rape dynamic between Arthas and Sylvanas. Championing Arthas as the one to end her deeds when he was the major cause of why she ended up screwed in the head. Is. Well. Put 2 and 2 together.

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Sylvanas saw him in Edge of Night, which is confirmed to have taken place in the Maw. But I wouldn't mind seeing Arthas defy that decision and try to prove to himself and to the Arbiter that nobody is beyond redemption. It'd play nicely with the overall message of Warcraft, about mortals being the only ones who can decide their fate, not gods or prophecies.

Plus it'd be so funny if Arthas ended up killing Sylvanas again, but this time to save the Shadowlands.

He doesen't deserve redemption. Period.

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What would you have done to Stratholme then? Quarantine it? With how virulent the plague was? Stop joking.

Yes. Exactly that. Hold the city under lock. Send in priest and mage teams. Get non infected citizens out. And work with the Kirin Tor in search of a cure. Easy as that. It's better then a mindless slaughter.

[Varodoc]

Sweet irony. For her to end in the same way she died the first time. Fitting end for her, though I want Tyrande to destroy her. Still think she's gonna survive... Nathanos might die though.

True, true, it'd be cool if she died ala Archimonde too. There's just so many sweet ways Sylvanas could die.... at this point, Blizzard is only spoilt for choice

[FuxieDK]

I think the title says everything. Do you think that Arthas can be possibly held accountable for his crimes or that his condition after picking up Forstmourne be considered comparable with legal insanity?.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people using guns.
Same way, Frostmourne didn't kill people, Arthas killed people using Frostmourne.

Besides, Arthas had more than enough live on his conscious before he picked up Frostmourne, to have him tried, convicted and executed many many times over.

[Claymore]

I'm not voting, because I think another option is far more likely;

He'll return as an "anti-hero" who probably helps us (as players and the factions as a whole), but is never accepted back into their ranks. Whether he remains in the Shadowlands, or comes back to Azeroth somehow, I think he will always be viewed as an outsider and as a threat, having done enough that the factions don't outright kill him.

I'd almost wonder if he would remain behind as a new "Jailer", but I think that would be too similar to Illidan's fate. So I definitely see him returning in some capacity. Maybe as a willing prisoner of the Ebon Blade, keeping the Scourge in check while the Ebon Blade functions as a "clean-up crew". Or maybe he somehow partners with his sister, Calia Menethil, or "redeem" the remnants of the Scourge?

[Chonar]

This is what "damning your soul" means, people. It's the conscious choice he made.
The fact that his good side was no longer in control after he picked up Frostmourne is irrelevant.

Muradin: Hold, lad. There's an inscription on the dais. It's a warning. It says, "Whomsoever takes up this blade shall wield power eternal. Just as the blade rends flesh, so must power scar the spirit." Oh, I should've known. The blade is cursed! Let's get the hell out of here!
Arthas: I would gladly bear any curse to save my homeland.
Muradin: Leave it be, Arthas. Forget this business and lead your men home.
Arthas: Damn the men! Nothing shall prevent me from having my revenge, old friend. Not even you.
Arthas: Now, I call out to the spirits of this place. I will give anything or pay any price, if only you will help me save my people.
Arthas has selected Need for: [Frostmourne]
Muradin has selected Need for: [Frostmourne]
Need roll - 99 for [Frostmourne] by Arthas
Need roll - 97 for [Frostmourne] by Muradin
Arthas won: [Frostmourne]
Arthas receives loot: [Frostmourne]
Muradin: Augh!

[Krek01]

For those people arguing that a quarantine would have worked when dealing with the plague in Stratholme, let's not forget that Mal'ganis was also in the city, personally overseeing the plague, and collecting those who had turned.

His main goal was to convince Arthas to travel to Northrend and take up Frostmourne. I'm certain that even if a quarantine was used, the dreadlord would have found some way to torment the prince, and/or make him do some reprehensible act.

Of course, though, that's all speculation.

[Varodoc]

Well really when you look at the Culling from an objective perspective, no one actually told Arthas that his solution wouldn't have worked or would've failed in stopping the spread of undeath. Because Arthas' strategy, from a logical perspective, was flawless. Jaina and Uther as a matter of fact didn't disagree with Arthas because his solution was stupid, but because it was morally grey.

That's the problem with Arthas, and with so many well-intentioned extremists. Logically, they are right. Stratholme was doomed, there was no other way, it was in Lordaeron's best interests to stop the rise of a new undead army. Yet at the same time, on a moral level, it's not easy to butcher civilians in their homes. Arthas himself knew this. He knew that what he was about to do was an atrocity, so much so that when he sees his father's statue at the gates of Stratholme, he asks forgiveness for what he must do, and in an official art he's also shown crying over the innocent blood he has on his hands.

And that's why the Culling of Stratholme, unlike the Burning of Teldrassil, was an actual morally grey event.

[Kyphael]

For those people arguing that a quarantine would have worked when dealing with the plague in Stratholme, let's not forget that Mal'ganis was also in the city, personally overseeing the plague, and collecting those who had turned.

His main goal was to convince Arthas to travel to Northrend and take up Frostmourne. I'm certain that even if a quarantine was used, the dreadlord would have found some way to torment the prince, and/or make him do some reprehensible act.

Of course, though, that's all speculation.

That's a good point. Mal'ganis would have likely teleported outside and started attacking whatever Dalaran mages showed up as well as Uther and Jaina while sabotaging their efforts, and taunting Arthas. It's very likely he would have even killed Uther or Jaina to get Arthas to do what he needed him to do.

[The Butt Witch]

Arthas did everything right until he picked up Frostmourne. Then it went downhill from there.

His deeds as a deathknight are inexcusable.

[Dellis0991]

Arthas was a weak minded man but he knew what he was doing and had many chances to stop but because he was weak minded he seen the path he took as a fucking short cut. He was in control the whole time with the exception of the helm and frostmourne egging his weak ass brain along, he is not a tragic but he is a imbecile.

[formerShandalay]

Well really when you look at the Culling from an objective perspective, no one actually told Arthas that his solution wouldn't have worked or would've failed in stopping the spread of undeath. Because Arthas' strategy, from a logical perspective, was flawless. Jaina and Uther as a matter of fact didn't disagree with Arthas because his solution was stupid, but because it was morally grey.

That's the problem with Arthas, and with so many well-intentioned extremists. Logically, they are right. Stratholme was doomed, there was no other way, it was in Lordaeron's best interests to stop the rise of a new undead army. Yet at the same time, on a moral level, it's not easy to butcher civilians in their homes. Arthas himself knew this. He knew that what he was about to do was an atrocity, so much so that when he sees his father's statue at the gates of Stratholme, he asks forgiveness for what he must do, and in an official art he's also shown crying over the innocent blood he has on his hands.

And that's why the Culling of Stratholme, unlike the Burning of Teldrassil, was an actual morally grey event.

The thing is, what was he hoping to accomplish with it? He already knew they were going to be raised as undead once they died. So killing them wasn't exactly going to save them from being raised and he knew it, he had seen it before.

[thesmall001]

My greatest hope was that somebody on this forum would put the pieces together (the decision to make Pride the real final boss of MoP was a visionary stroke of genius). You, kind soul, exceeded the greatest expectations.

[Aucald]

My greatest hope was that somebody on this forum would put the pieces together (the decision to make Pride the real final boss of MoP was a visionary stroke of genius). You, kind soul, exceeded the greatest expectations.

The Sha of Pride wasn't the real, final boss of MoP - it was the fourth boss in SoO. Garrosh and/or the Heart of Y'Shaarj was the final boss of MoP.

[Chonar]

The Sha of Pride wasn't the real, final boss of MoP - it was the fourth boss in SoO. Garrosh and/or the Heart of Y'Shaarj was the final boss of MoP.

Storywise though, it was pride that was both Garrosh's strength, motivation, and ultimate downfall.

[Varodoc]

The thing is, what was he hoping to accomplish with it? He already knew they were going to be raised as undead once they died. So killing them wasn't exactly going to save them from being raised and he knew it, he had seen it before.

Killing them stopped the turning process midway. Also it's very likely that many civilians burned in the fires, which means that Mal'ganis wouldn't have been able to raise their corpses.

[formerShandalay]

The Sha of Pride wasn't the real, final boss of MoP - it was the fourth boss in SoO. Garrosh and/or the Heart of Y'Shaarj was the final boss of MoP.

But I do think pride being the one that wasn't banished by Shao Hao and being so prominent in the storyline, plus being a boss in the last raid is an indicator of what they were actually trying to say.
I personally think that pride is the hardest to perceive on your own, if you are prideful. It's sometimes not even obvious to others that your real problem is pride, because pride can mask itself as almost everything. Sometimes pride is even considered a good thing and being humble as a weakness. This was as much a problem for Garrosh (which made him the perfect candidate for the Sha of Pride) as it was for Arthas (which made him a perfect candidate for the Lich King and the Nathrezim).